FUTURE_OF_GM

So your saying that you can't hear a Harley coming at you when you're walking up a street? :rotflmao:

Don't forget that those lower paying 'assembly jobs' from foreign manufacturers displaced MANY great paying 'assembly jobs' from Detroit manufcaturers. I'm not sure why some people think anything that touches american soil is american. I guess they'll learn one day when their supposed peaceful, equal opportunity utopia turns out to be a steaming pile of sh*t.

VERY COOL! Eventhough the decals are a bit tacky, I'd almost put them on the car just because of the numerical significance. I mean, it's (hopefully) not like this is going to be a daily driver.

So we now have this on Zeta: Impala dead; who knows why? Monaro/GTO/Trans Am dead; but it was barely a program to begin with and could be replaced theoretically with a Riviera. G8 Sportswagon dead; essentially because of production restraints Future of the G8 up in the air... And a possible GMC Zeta yet to be developed. Yep, looks like Zeta's dead to me! (Much sarcasm intended)

Holy crap! $40?!?!?! Yep, I would've broken the guys arm off!

This is actually a very good point.

That Doberman is beautiful, glad to see she still has all of her ears. I've always been a fan of bv's Harley and Auggie is adorable! I don't have pics right now but here's the list: The APT dwellers: 1 cat named Baloney. She was a very young looking, but actually very malnourished stray that lived in our parking lot. We adopted her and took her to the vet to find out that she was actually 5 or 6 years old. She's box trained and took to the house really well, so she had obviously been set out. At first, she wouldn't even come to us, so we would leave food in the lot for her before we took her in. Now she's still very jumpy and untrusting (Obviously been abused at one point) but she trusts my GF and I very well. Her name comes from the first thing we fed her when she "found" my GF one day in the lot and kept meowing at her. All we had in the fridge at the time was some Balogna, so we gave it to her. The spelling was changed to account for her personality 1 dog named Maximus Hernandez (Max) is a rescue from a local shelter. He is half Chihuahua and half Dacshund or Terrier and is about 1 year old. He's so much fun, is very fast and extremely energetic. His last owner had to go to Iraq and that's how he ended up in the shelter. Another dog named Pongo that is my roomies dog. Pongo is half Great Dane and half Dalamation and he is a rescue from the local humane society. he is a handful to play with because of his size. His name is from 101 Dalmations, because we got him as a puppy and thought he was full Dalmation. Boy did he GROW!! lol. The dogs at home: Zeke is a half Akita, half St. Bernard mix that came from a local animal rescue. He is probably the most laid back and loving dog I've ever seen. Because of this I've wanted to turn him into a rehab dog for a while now. He's solid white with "raccoon eyes" and he's like a typical Akita in that 1) He's never "in the way" and 2) He's VERY fast in running and fighting. (For instance, you have to really watch him at the dog park at first because when he jumps he's very quick. But normally he gets along with everyone well) Jake a half pit bull, half chow (or something) mix is a rescue from the humane society. He is unique in that he was actually born in the humane society and had not been socialized AT ALL when we adopted him. He is a very sweet dog but he doesn't trust many people and is pretty skiddish. Unfortunately, he tends to be very territorial and violent IF he isn't properly introduced to a new dog. If a new dog comes intot the neighborhood we usually try to acquaint him with Jake as early as possible so Jake doesn't feel threatened. He and Zeke are almost inseparable since they basically grew up together. Boo Bear is probably my favorite and he is the oldest. He is a rescue from a local shelter and appears to be full blooded Dacshund. Dacshund is probably my favorite breed of dog for a variety of reasons (Intelligence, speed, energy, stubborness, FIERCE loyalty) He is the only 'inside dog' and as a result is absolutely spoiled rotten. He's very, very intelligent and one of my favorite things to do is watch him open Christmas. He has his own stocking and gets (something small) wrapped each year to go under the tree. Christmas morning he actually opens the gift, by himself for the most part. As a result, now everytime that a package comes to the house he thinks it's Christmas and often helps me unwrap car parts. Unfortunately about 3 years ago he injured his spine and is now partially paralyzed. The vet told us we could either 'put him down' or have expensive surgery and 'hope for the best'. Of course, we weren't going to 'put him down' (which is good because the vet told us that was the right decision but he didn't want to try and sway us) However, even after the surgery he has limited use of his back legs. So, I had him a custom cart built and he's just as fast as ever. It's fun to take him to car shows because he rides in the Camaro in a clothes basket and 'carts around' when he gets there. It's an interesting conversation piece. Buddy is a Beagle/Basset mix that literally got left behind by our neighbors when they moved, so we took him in since he knew and liked us already. His trademark is the ever-so-annoying-in-the-middle-of-the-night beagle bellow and an independence so strong that half of the time he won't even acknowledge your presence. One day a few of us were in the woods (where we regualrly find bear tracks) and Buddy got on the tail of something. We thought he had disturbed the bear so we started heading out of the woods (as Buddy got closer) I looked back and realized that Buddy was actually tracking us and had this look on his face like "why are you running from me?" You probably 'had to be there' but it was pretty funny. Neighborhood Dogs: Bowser is my GF's family's dog that is half Chow half Sharpee. He was rescued just before being taken to the animal shelter. He and all of his siblings were abandoned by his mother and subsequently all suffered frost bite. All of them recovered and got adopted out thankfully. Bowser is FULL to the brim of energy and LOVES to play all of the time. As a result he annoys the hell out of Zeke and Jake constantly. His favorite hobbies include "setting up" (ready, set, go, as you open the door) at the door to chase a squirrel that's invaded the back yard and barking relentlessly at Crows. Another fun fact is that long car rides make him ornery, so he's always initially in a pissy mood when he comes to visit us at the APT. Brandi is a very jealous full blooded Chocolate Lab that my other neighbors have. Homer is a full blooded Golden Retriever that the same neighbors own. A lot of the time, most of these dogs just kinda 'pal around' the neighborhood or play with each other nonstop. Everybody loves 'the dogs' and one of my favorite things about going home is the MASSIVE dog greeting I get before I can even step out of the car. As you all can probably tell, I'm very enthusiastic about my animals! P.S. I also have 3 horses

LOL. You lost the battle, so drop it. I don't know why you insist on bringing this up in almost every thread on an automotive board. I'm done with it... Say what you will but the avatar will remain. And I would like to point out that PCS flew a confederate flag avatar for a while as well, yet no one seems to take issue when it's an 'insider'. I guess he's a "small minded ignorant coward" as well, right?

FWIW, most of those pictures are available as posters from Pontiac Mall

As always, where it's built doesn't matter. Are Detroit cars considered Chinese if they're built in China? Didn't think so....

I wear confederate flag apparel everyday and my neighborhood is *gasp* full of the "violent black people" you just negatively stereotyped. And you call me the racist?

Wow, you're not biased at all... Lets see... I've posted here for 7 years in which time I've told people on this board enough about myself for them to easily find me. (And some have) That's in addition to maintaining 2 different social network profiles, both with friends from this board. Yep... anonymity... That's it. They had to as 95% of our manufacturing base (textiles, furniture, etc) was shipped off shore. I mean, I still don't really agree with tax breaks for any big company but it's the reality of the situation.

My bad... I thought Harbour measured over all efficiency. That would be true IF the decision to buy a car consisted of only logic. But it doesn't, it's as much of an emotional issue as a logical one (Thus is consumerism as a whole) The same could be said of those americans that choose to bash domestic entities. ('Big brother' anyone?) And BTW, once again, I don't appreciate your assumptions about posters on this board. If you have any psychological background what so ever, you would know about online identity and how it is portrayed/manipulated for effect and perception. That alone is enough to question any assumptions one might take away from online interaction. I don't think we're considered a world leader anymore after 8 years of Bush. I agree entirely. One can only hope.

I think the 60's really was the peak of america as a society... I'm only 25 and I still love almost everything from the 60's. Of course, "americana" is huge with a lot of my generation just because things are so "bad" now. (I say it that way because it can mean so many different things) I really wish I had been born in the 30s or 40s a lot of the time. As far as the Impala, I would certainly put the orignial engine back in it since it is the original. As for the 454, I would do one of 2 things. 1) Run the numbers on it to see exactly what it is since those tend to be very desireable engines and it would probably bring a pretty good price. -or- 2) Keep it hanging around and eventually rebuild it, then buy something to put it in or rotate it and the 396 out in the Impala (Depending on how hard of a life and how many miles that motors sees) That's just what I would do.

I hadn't heard about that... Nascar is shifting it's audience as Detroit dies. I'm willing to bet that Nascar has actually been asking Toyota and Nissan into the sport instead of the opposite. Next up will be Hyundai. (And that'll be your new big three) Besides, with the relatively rapid decline of the sport, the fat cats must be getting desperate by now.

Money talks and the walks... Buisness men and politicians alike will say whatever you want them to say if you pay them enough. This is ESPECIALLY true with Nascar. If Toyota is padding the pockets of Nascar via endorsements AND a huge untapped fan base in exchange for (the company's main goal) being passed off as american, then I'm sure it's no problem for Nascar to sell out like that. What's sad is how much of the american public will come to believe that as fact. I predict within 10-20 years, people will view the japanese companies as more american than the traditional domestics if something isn't done by Detroit to reinforce where they came from in peoples minds. And I doubt that will happen since Detroit is working very, very hard to become a global alliance. Personally, I'd like to see GM, Ford & Chrysler back out of Nascar (except for a decal and grille kit -- That's what the Car of Tomorrow will eventually be anyway) and start up a successful factory backed Trans Am series. They could race everything from Cobalts all the way up to Corvettes and everything would have to be production based.

I used to have one "laying around" Damn my spastic cleaning spells! (I traded it because I got tired of looking at it) Seriously, I bet it wouldn't take much to get these things in running condition.

The only "re-badge" Pontiac has in the true sense of the word is the G5. No other division at GM has a Vibe clone, the Sky is as much of a Solstice clone as the Escalade is of a Tahoe (Which means, it's not) The G8 is entirely unique in platform AND execution, the Torrent is borderline (And will be addressed soon enough) and the G6 is, for all intents and purposes, more unique than ever now that the Malibu and Aura are on the same wave length. But now, it seems that even remotely similar cars are re-badges if it's a domestic company. Hmmm... It's the same double standard we're used to. Toyota can peddle a Camry as a Lexus all day, but at GM a Pontiac has to be 100% unique from a Chevrolet.

That's what the main concern of the article was... I'd take one off of their hands too.

If you're not a citizen of america, you don't enjoy it's freedoms :AH-HA_wink:

The Escalade line stays untouched.. The STS is killed because the CTS does it so much better. The DTS needs to be redesigned into what it was supposed to be to begin with. The XLR-V needs to become THE XLR. An Alpha Cadillac line needs to go in under the CTS The SRX needs to be replaced by a CTS wagon. (Since that's basically what it is anyway) The top of the Escalade line can be the Platinum trim, expand the V-Series to the DTS and CTC/CTW and maybe introduce a Cien as the figurative top of the line XLR (Yep, part wishful thinking, part reality) And depending on how focused/sporty the BRX is, it can either be topped by the V-Series trim or Platinum trim.

I agree 100% I think GM should take a 2 pronged approach. If they want Pontiac to be what they say they want it to be: 1) and most importantly, they need to grow a buyer base. They need to capitalize on Pontiac's appeal to the youth, however big or small it is, by building cars for the youth. GM needs to use a 'out of the park' G5, Vibe and Solstice to really get the attention of the Lancer/WRX crowd and then give those people cars to step up into. 2) Build cars like the G8 and G8 ST for now as a supplemental thing. Those models need to attract buyers like us, who are hardcore GM/RWD people and the few who might jump ship from other brands all the while serving as halo vehicles for the division. *Then as the buyers that GM has grown out of G5/Vibe/Solstice sales begin to move up, they can alter or expand sales of the top models as needed. It's a given that GM will probably sell 50K G8 sedans to loyalists alone at this point, so they have that part of the equation right. Then as the prestige of Pontiac grows (Probably 2-3 model cycles down the road) GM can begin to build on their profit margin by bumping up prices a bit. I think it's about 50/50, from my personal experience. I don't think it's nearly as bad as most people say... I mean, look at the success of the first CTS and the new Enclave and Malibu. *IF* GM builds a great product, the sales will come through the door no matter what channel/division/icing they come through IMO. Same here... In that respect, Pontiac is fighting it's own heritage. GM wants to play it safe because of the clientele they are trying to attract with cars like the G8 and GTO and at the same time they're trying to shut the biased journalists up about "body cladding". But the sad thing is; until GM embraces the culture of Pontiac, which is that of a brash, in your face, love it or hate it car division (For better and for worse) the division will never take off like it should. My age group around here, and I'm talking off the wall Detroit haters, tends to generally love the Solstice. I spend most of my time in an art studio FULL of anti-GM, anti-car liberals. I was walking through one day and noticed a HUGE poster of a red Solstice in the middle of one of the studios. I wish I could communicate with Wagoner and Lutz, because I wanted to send them a picture of it just to let them know that they're doing the right thing and that Pontiac certainly isn't dead yet. I think that is pretty much the whole issue... CAFE throws a wrench in things for a lot of reasons (Most of which I hope don't happen) but mostly because 1) Pontiac was supposed to be RWD with Chevrolet FWD (For the most part) and GM isn't even sure about the direction that RWD will take in the future, or if it'll even be needed. (I know right, shoot me now) 2) CAFE will add huge cost into developing the kinds of cars Pontiac needs to float 3) Most worrisome, CAFE will severely limit the variety of cars we see in the coming years as the market consolidates or as the companies lose share (If the consumers react like I think they might) So GM is probably thinking; why not cut most of our RWD offerings and fold them into the Chevrolet line up because enthusiasts also shop there and Chevrolets global presence can spread costs around better. They're basically simplifying out of caution... What they don't see is how that mindset might bite them in the ass sooner rather than later when they can't demand the right price from a Chevrolet (because of a sagging market) to justify the development of their volume. This will hurt more since GM has lost a major portion of their enthusiasts (The people who were vital to keeping the company afloat for the 10-15 years they built sh*t) Enthusiats might be a minority, but our dedication influences a lot. Remember GM, the best advertisement is word of mouth and that's a proven Sociological fact. I agree... But I don't think Lutz and Wagoner are bad for the company, I think it's the peons in the middle ranks and the board that still haven't got a clue about reality because they're so buried in corporate bureaucracy.

Exactly... Just like in the truck series; Toyota bought their way to the top on the backs of Detroit. In a way it mirrors the dealership ordeal where many Toyota franchises were built using bankrolled GM and Ford sales. No offense intended, but what a disgrace...

As usual, you're spot on! It's too bad the majority of the people that live here can't understand this pretty basic concept. I don't even think it'll stop when we're on the same "level as the rest of the world" I think a small percentage of the west will continue to hold wealth and the multi-nationals won't stop milking the place until it's milked dry. So, while they're salivating over the wealth of the top 2% and trying to attain it (by using our resources) the other 98% of us will suffer. Then, once the cash cow has been milked dry and money has been 'evenly distributed' throughout our 'allies' and 'partners' many think things will level out and these 'allies/partners' will help build us back up again (As we have done them for the past 50 years) Well, I have to laugh at the thought of that... Once america loses it's buying power and technological influence, it'll be shoved out of the way and forgotten about. All of these countries want to be the best, and they've been jealous of our success for a hundred years now, why would they foolishly allow us to gain traction again once they've essentially defeated us? America (et. al.) is like the retarded kid in gym class... We think everyone is our friend and we'll do anything we can out of innocence and the need for accptance. Ever so blind are we to how much we're being laughed at and used in every situation we get involved in.

I really hope they don't crush them...