FUTURE_OF_GM

AWESOME!!! I mean, after all, a Porsche is basically a highly overrated and more expensive VW anyway. makes perfect sense!!!

That all cars will be soulless electric appliances within 15 years!!!??? Yay!

Yep... I've been saying that for... 5 years now?

Stuff like this will never pass.... It's just too much.

+1 Same $h!, different day... It's like the bad old days of the 90s all over again.

That's cool... But I'll guarantee you this: If I ever have to pay a stupid tax like this, I'll be driving (And encouraging everyone I can to drive) my large displacement, environment killing, death to earth dealing, gas hog every damn day, every where I go. If I'm going to pay for it, then I'm going to use it. Then we'll see what our environment looks like in 20 years (Now that the poor and middle class have been priced out of new cars) Part of me seriously wishes this planet would just die already.

GM, if you bring this here as a GTO; it'll sell like crazy! I'll buy one! F*ck GME... They can't even run their 3 "global brands" successfully... Much less GMNA. The tail doesn't need to wag the dog. As far as CAFE... Sell 10,000 of them a year and call it a day. And no, I don't want an Alpha version with some piece of crap 4 cylinder... Use lighter materials in the Zeta volume models and you'll be fine

It's a GM hybrid... So naturally it sucks.

It's too f*cking bad Detroit doesn't have the money to RUN Washington like big oil does.

BMW was using GM 5 speed autos before GM even had them in their own cars... Another lame mistake by GM. I certainly hope Cadillac isn't getting BMW components. I don't see how that would help CAFE any and it would be a HUGE cop out on the part of GM. I dunno, I'm not a fan of BMW powertrains in any GM vehicle. It just seems like a huge sell out to benchmark BMW for Cadillac and Pontiac only to then steal their technology. That sounds like something Toyota would do, you know, like they're doing with Ford's heavy duty diesel technology.

Yet another "scare article" telling GM downsize and sell out to foreign ownership... The street wants to off load our automakers so bad that they can taste it... Why? Because of profit and pride. They'll profit big time from something like that, not to mention, GM is the last american automaker. (Lets face facts: Chrysler will be sold to China or India faster than you can say Mopar and Ford mortgaged it's soul for a few more years of media/Wall Street abuse before the company is liquidated or put down. If GM merges, the pride of the middle class will be broken, something yuppies like this salivate over every day. It's not a matter of well being or livelihood with them. It's a matter of pride and 'choice' The industry has been cutting and merging for 10 years now... If anyone on 'the street' or in Detroit still thinks that is the way to prosperity, then they're f*cking idiots. GM needs to continue to weather the storm and produce outstanding product. they didn't get into this mess in 2 quarters and they certainly won't get out of it in that time.

I dunno... It floors me though. Just the difference in people from here (Charlotte) to there. My neighborhood here is considered "the ghetto" by a lot of people because it is a transition area. But the people around here are much nicer and less 'angry' (not to sound cliche) than anyone I encounter in Asheville these days. I truly think economic conditions have a devastating effect on crime and homicide, something that I wouldn't have thought true before I moved here and witnessed the difference.

:rotflmao:!

There is just something about this place that keeps people coming back... I've wanted to quit the site numerous times, and actually did once, but I just can't seem to stay away. As far as the people here; I feel the same way in that I consider everyone to be an extended family. A lot of times my negativity and sarcasm come across in a way that offends people, but I respect the heck out of everyone here (yes, even my new 'arch enemy' enzl ) I promise, I'm actually a really nice guy despite what my online persona portrays. It all boils down to a difference of opinion and that's what makes the place so great. I'm not nearly as closed minded as I used to be because I've learned so much from people here with differing opinions. Online interactions is a very interesting field of study in Psychology and that's one reason why the board fascinates me so much. I wouldn't know most of you if you passed me on the street, yet I still feel sadness when you experience hard times and happiness when something great happens. I was thinking the other day; I've posted with some of you for the better part of a decade now. Through good times and bad, well really, horrible times for the company we kept standing strong and pretty much built a family of sorts. Nothing like a little adversity to unite folks. EDIT: I would definitely be interested in attending.

I love the Charger and I still would take an SRT-8 over almost any sedan on the road (CTS-V *maybe* being the only exception) I must admit though, the G8 is growing on me and it looks surprisingly good sitting next to the Charger R/T. Much more "agressive" than I first thought. I really can't wait until we get to see the GXP... That might be enough to put the car on my shopping list.

LOL... The media has it's head up it's own ass and misinforms the public?!!?!? WHAT?!?! You're kidding, right? LOL That's a good point that hadn't occured to me.

The emphasis on V8s is changing... One could argue that this was a MUCH needed change at GM since they have virtually ignored V6's for 10 years and developed their V8s extremely well. (Barring the new 3.6) GM needs BALANCE more than anything and I hope they see that. their V6's should be just as good as their V8s and their 4 cylinders likewise. Just as they should sell cars at the same "level" as their trucks. That's a very vague statement. Are they going to be less performance oriented, less halo-esque, less displacement/more efficient? Either way, this and the statement recently by GM Powertrain makes me feel better. GM can either embrace this and offer a WIDE array of innovation and options or GM can cower from it and offer us a rehash of the same $h! we've had from them for 15 years, except with snazzy Opel grilles. The V8 needs to stay in "certain products" and one of those is a Pontiac halo vehicle; no matter how limited the production. On the car side: give Buick, Saab and Saturn the turbo V6 at the top. Give Chevrolet, Cadillac and Pontiac V8s as their top models. Or just appeal the CAFE laws when the new president comes to town

As long as I can still buy a V8, then more power to 'em! But I can't help but think that everyone is still overreacting a bit. (Like in the 80s) With technology, ICEs will continue to become more and more efficient. It's not that I don't want GM to sell more efficient cars, it's just that I DO NOT want them to "give up" on performance cars or the V8 simply because they've been told that the cars must be more efficient... It's all about innovation. V8s just became available in more than "a few" GM vehicles about 3 years ago... This is nothing new, really.

Everyone continues to assume that biofuel only comes from Corn... WHY? Are they just not up to date on things?

I'm sure my view is overly pessimistic because it always seems to be. But this kind of thing really scares me AND makes me angry. I'll volunteer to do my part, but these people shouldn't force drastic changes on me that I don't agree with.

On the surface, Asheville is still appealing, but at it's core things are going downhill very quickly. The three majors are; 1) Culture clash. There is an increasingly desperate former middle class that is sliding into poverty as a result of local governments lack of concern about our HUGE job losses around the area. These people are being forced out because a higher class of retirees, the people the local government is catering to - often "outsiders" are moving in. These retirees are moving in because of the natural beauty that the area has (had) but the are ruining it by building up the sides of the mountains like wildfire. And I'm talking straight logging the mountains clear and building out-of-place huge houses. This has created a very tense environment with some violence and A LOT of vandalism of new houses and larceny. The cost of living continues to go up, yet we have no substantial jobs. 2) Violence. Not only violence, but brutal violence. The major gangs are forming rapidly and until about a month ago we didn't even have one gang specialist. After a lady threw a birthday party for her daughter and 2 14 year olds got shot through the head by other 14 year old gang members, we decided to hire one. Combine that with the traditional people, and their 'bad ass redneck' attitudes and the two don't mix well. When I was home for Christmas we had several murders just in that time period. And the number of murders isn't the most alarming part, it's the manner in which they're committed that's scary. I mean, we have murders here in the city, but they're nothing like the sick sh*t that happens up there. Some examples: One guy murdered his neighbor by beating his head in with a claw hammer. Another guy shot some 'associates' of his "execution style" (blindfold and all) One guy was critically injured when a random person followed him home and pulled an AK on him. Come to find out, the owner of the AK was pissed at this guys roommate, but decided to shoot him instead since he couldn't find the roommate. A prostitute went missing and they found pieces of her body dismembered and scattered in "burning piles" around the city. 2 kids beat an elderly lady and her handicapped son to death with a baseball bat in their own home, then stole her car and drove to the beach like nothing had happened. An elderly couple was hiking in the woods and a guy beat them to death with a stick, then scattered the bodies. One guy was out of town for a week, came home and noticed his yard was a bit different and upon further investigation, found the body of a murder victim that had been stashed there while he was away; I could go on forever. One guy poured the remnants of a meth lab down his girlfriends throat and almost killed her, which brings me to 3) Drugs. Drugs are absolutely OUT OF CONTROL in Asheville. EVERYONE is on something it seems. Crystal Meth is HUGE and in fact Meth is much easier to find up there than in this large city. My cousin lives in Alabama and can't believe the difference between there and Asheville as far as availability. Even a local Pizza Hut had a meth lab in the parking lot and trailer parks sometimes have MULTIPLE labs. I'm no drug addict; it's just so prominent there that no one tries to hide anything. The same dealer has had a 'monopoly' over my area for many years. We all know he deals it, the cops know too, but they won't lift a finger. Crack is also big and Cocaine is the drug of choice for high schoolers. When I was in school, weed was the big thing at parties (I never smoked, hell, I've never even had a cigarette) but now it's coke. The kids aren't kids anymore IMO, they have guns and 'colors'. The only thing to do on a friday night is drink/get high and go to the bar to get in a fight with people you don't like. I was in an uptown bar over Christmas and watched a guy do a line of coke off of the bar, right out in the open like it was nothing. It's just a whole different world from how it was when I grew up there and it's so hard to describe the literal tension that is in the air. Even with a sociology/psychology background, it's extremely hard for me to pinpoint what exactly is causing things to happen the way they are. The "live free, drugs are cool" mentality that the city has promoted for so long is finally coming home to roost and that, when combined with the alienation and desperation felt by the former middle class is producing lives existing in badly altered states that are willing to do anything to not feel even more emasculated. Here in the city, I sleep with my door locked and I sleep well... In Asheville, I sleep with my door locked, watch dogs around and a gun close by just in case. If that doesn't sum things up, I don't know what will.

I know, right... This whole Zeta mess is giving me a headache. (LOL, I tend to get mellow dramatic when I'm thinking out loud )

That will become a problem IMO. I'm also a large guy... We are the minority and we will pay the price for that. These people who care nothing about their fellow americans or quality of life are just selfish; plain and simple. They ARE everything they claim not to be. In typical spolied american fashion, they believe that their view of the world is right and that we should just conform or not exist/not have a fulfilling life. It's a defeatists attitude... Instead of innovating and keeping large vehicles, they think we should just 'give up' and roll over because that's the way the rest of the world is.

Absolutely! I'd jump ALL OVER and Alpha Pontiac with the 4.8L! I'm willing to bet that Zeta is simply in limbo until we get (READ: If they ever get off of their asses) finalized CAFE numbers from the government. If the rules are strict; goodbye Zeta. If the rules are a bit more lenient; Zeta probably has a future either big or small. Hence the "We're not sure about the future of the G8" I'll say this; I bet people at GM are pretty happy about the positive press that the G8 is getting and I bet that will have increasing influence on their decision, especially if it turns the division around. The Camaro is safe, for now. And I'd say that it along with the Cadillac/Buick Zetas is probably negatively affecting the G8. GM knows that Zeta will probably have to be scaled down or re-engineered. So they put the priority programs up first which are the Camaro. GM cannot cancel the Camaro, it'd be a HORRIBLE PR move. However, they can produce it for 3 years or so and then decide what to do. (Either death or Alpha) Next up is the Cadillac Zeta(s) because we all know Cadillac WILL NOT do without. Then we move to the B/P/GMC channel where we have a relatively low production G8 and G8 ST and a relatively low production Lucerne replacement. The Lucerne will win out (Unless it is killed too) based on profit margin alone. This shed more light on the Impala too... It 1) was barely off the ground 2) Had a replacement program running beside it simultaneously and 3) Already had doubt and enemies at GM HQ. It seems to have been an EASY kill. So the dilemma is: should Pontiac keep the G8 because it needs it or should the larger/ more profitable divisions get theirs? Can Pontiac build it's reputation on smaller cars? Can Zeta be engineered to be lighter and more efficient and is it worth it? I'm not sure where the XT factors in, unless it is for 1) margin and 2) it's an answer to problems in the truck market that GM sees down the road. But the bottom line is: Pontiac isn't a major division and the G8/G8 ST isn't adding a lot to the bottom line.

YET And that's what worries me... It's more freedom that we are giving up. The "do gooders" have single handedly started to take over our society by forcing change. And if you don't like, don't agree with, don't take to, don't want that change it MIGHT just cost you your job (in the future) and it CERTAINLY will cost you your status in intelligence, social class and friendship. This is the mindless sheep logic in it's grandest form; POPULAR OPINION will increasingly control our lives until all of our rights are taken away and we are forced to 'live without' the simple luxuries that we enjoyed not 5 years ago. People bitch constantly about religion being in government, sexism being in employment, racism being in finances, etc... So why should we ALLOW politics and high school era popularity contests to become a part of our livelihoods? I really dread the day when I take my classic "pollution machine" out for a sunday drive (10 of the mere <500 miles a year it drives) only to be met with anger, sneers and property damage simply because I view the world a little differently than 'what's popular' (Subsequently, that's probably when I'll go to prison for hurting someone really badly)