FUTURE_OF_GM

I think it's really cool that you shared this. I've always wanted someone to 'tell it to me straight' about certain drugs. It's something I think our education system needs, the kids need to be informed, not told "don't do this" because that just makes them want to do it more. I've seriously thought about trying pot but never have. It's probably no secret to anyone here that I am an anxious person with a lot of type A characteristics, not to mention I suffer from depression/rage (For which I now refuse to take the medication) Anyway... I've always wanted to try pot to see if it would level me out and just 'save me from myself' I guess. I have plenty of friends that do it and they seem to be so centered and relaxed when they do it. It'd be nice to find that state of mind and I have no moral problems with it, but I've never done it simply because I didn't think it was really me. I dunno, I probably never will because I don't want to form an addiction.

I think you certainly did the right thing, the lady was being harassed and you stepped in. As for ripping the guys ear off 1) It was self defense because you were hit first and 2) You had to let them know you were serious, I mean 4 against 1 isn't good odds even if you're a hell of a fighter.

This is a cool thread... Hmm.... Well, I'll graduate in 2 years with both degrees and have my current car paid off. A Z06 or "Blue Devil" is probably still unattainable at that point. So, the year of my first new car will more than likely come down to either the G8 or the Camaro. I'd LOVE to show my support for Pontiac and buy a G8, but 1) I'm going to have to see the car in person and 2) It depends a lot on how the car drives. Most likely I would try to go for a GXP if one is out by then. It'd certainly have to at least be a V8 with a manual to even remain on my list. The Camaro might be more my cup-o-tea though. I mean, after all, I do already own two classic Camaros and it'd be very sweet to add another Camaro to the mix, but I just see myself as more of a Pontiac person now. (Could be what the division stands for or it could be that I just want to see the division continue to exist) I'll have to see what Ford and *gulp* Chrysler have out then too. I'm a HUGE fan of the SRT-8 Charger and I like the Fusion, Malibu and Aura as well but I'm not sure I'm ready for a FWD sedan or a sedan, period. Oh, and I'd LOVE to look into the Solstice GXP/Sky RL, but I'm 6'9" so that's out. There are so many cars I like that I'll just have to test drive, it'll be a hard decision. As for used; I'd still LOVE to have a WS6 Trans Am, wouldn't mind trading my ZX3 up to an SVT Focus either (As gas mileage is a factor right now---I commute a lot) I also wouldn't mind finding a slightly used GTO or maybe even a G6. I'd like to have a Cobalt SC/SS as well or HHR. And speaking of R how about an SSR with the 6.0 liter and manual. Other than that my girlfriend and I plan on collecting classic cars from the 50s to the 70s (That list is huge)

I'm originally from Asheville NC (BIG leftie/hippie town for those of you who don't know) Funny you should mention how you usually have fun watching people get drunk because I do the same thing. 90% of the time I'm the sober 'host' of the party. I think the reason I'm that way is 3 fold 1) I hate and always have hated beer (I only drink liquor) 2) My dad was a fire chief for 20 years, so I was WELL aware of the bad consequences and outcome of drinking and driving 3) Someone has to keep order. My problem is; when I drink, I DRINK! Like that one time I killed a fifth of Goldslauger by myself, or the one time that me and a friend killed a handle of Tequila. Oh well, I guess I have a bigger tolerance because of my size and I guess we're all allowed to cut loose once in a while. The drug of choice for Asheville used to be weed, but now it's gotten more hardcore (Not a good thing) All the high school kids are hooked on cocaine and all the Gen Xers and Gen Yers have turned to meth. We're in the midst of a HUGE meth epidemic and a lot of my extended family has been caught up in it (they still are, actually) It's funny, we have all these lil' "gansta" 15-18 year olds slingin' rocks thinking they're all hard and $h!.

I've never done anything but prescription... I tend to stick to the alcohol on weekends, but that's only if we're partying. Well, I did however chug 2 full solo cups of straight tequila the other night. For some reason I have this uncanny ability to kill tequila without flinching, I dunno why I've been bestowed with this talent, but I have. And HEY, guess what! Tequila looks, tastes and burns the same coming back up the next morning Anyway, I've never smoked anything; not even a cigarette. My dad was a Marlboro smoker for most of my growing years and I have really bad allergies. So that was enough to make me LOATHE cigarettes.

If one were secure enough in their sexuality, the fact that some asses in the media consider this a "chick car" (Sexism is great! Right?) wouldn't matter one bit when LOGICALLY purchasing a vehicle. But no, we live in a shallow society with 2 dimensional people.

Looks like the parade of domestic haters is here... Bloomberg had an article similar to this as well. Import fans just can't stand the fact that GM has outclasses their companies in the ONE area that their companies excelled. Oh well. :shrugs:

This is an EXCELLENT read! It looks like GM is doing EVERYTHING right!!! I can't wait till we see some more of this in production! I would LOVE to see division specific steering wheels instead of the generic wheels of today. I also think the key fobs are an area that could have HUGE pay off. Now if we could just get GM to bring back the chrome-bar-horn in Chevrolets (Think Bel Air concept)

Saab really needs attention..... MORE attention than this.

I thought the last Vue RL had the Honda motor exclusively. But I could be wrong. The new Vue RL will share the 3.6L with other Vues.

Random ramblings; Most of the Cadillac wheels look gawdy and aweful. Think of how much better the STS-V would look with a bit of a suspension drop and dramatic, bold wheels that are actually worthy of the cars performance. And WHY does GM NEVER mount the 18's on the STS for shows or sales?!?!?! The car should come STANDARD with 18s!!!! The older Cadillac models are becoming WAY too dated already. However, the new CTS and Escalade are quite possibly the most attractive Cadillacs since the 60s. GM needs to update the STS/XLR/SRX and phase out the DTS quickly!!!! The Equinox Sport looks better in real life pics and the Ron Fellows Z06 is gorgeous!!! I think the VortecMAX Silverado, with it's ever-so-subtle styling changes looks better than the regular 1500. The Malibu is GORGEOUS, but I still think the Silverado HD looks unfinished with the chrome bumper 'caps'. And WTF is up with the 2 foot wheel to body gap??!?! I mean, I know it's a HD truck and all, but damn! I'm not sure which I like better overall, the HD or the Super Duty Ford. It looks mighty impressive. The Camaro is gorgeous and I'm almost certain that it'll be my first new car purchase since Pontiac went tepid with the G8. The Volt has it's own beauty and draw, I definitely think GM should fast track it, or something like it to production! However, I still think the Z71 trucks are missing something.... They're just not distinct enough, especially in the face of the imports launching their own "off road" packages. Has Ford even sold any GT500s???? The publicity hasn't been that big and I have yet to see even one in a dealer showroom around here. (I'm not asking the question of IF there is demand, rather, has production been slowed or halted or delayed for some reason) the Focus looks pretty classy in that pic. I think it'll either be a surprise success or a HUGE failure. I don't think there will be any middle ground with this design in the RETAIL area. The Interceptor is just straight bad ass and needs to be rushed to production IMO. Solstice GXP is another car that I haven't heard much PR on, especially compared to the launch of the car. I wonder how well it is selling. Our dealership has on and it's gorgeous! I'd look in to buying it if I could fit in the damn thing. The Torrent GXP is too subtle and shouldn't even be called GXP. Pontiac seems to be very schizo with their new offerings, with the off the wall G6 GXP contrasting with the tepid to lame Torrent GXP and the "conservative" G8 contrasting with the BEAUTIFUL Solstice. You know, I could REALLY fall in love with the G8 if it had a few subtle changes.... For instance, these wheels would have to be standard or optional. I have a feeling that the absence of the wheels will make the design A LOT less desireable. I'd also love to have the arrow head brake calipers. Pontiac painted the calipers on the Comp G GP, so why not on the G8? Up front, I'd LOVE to have a more aggressive headlight design, the untis from Holden are just too generic (90s) looking. And in addition to that, the lower air intakes could be more aggressive, maybe more "cut" at the point of the nose and the less flared at the ends (where the foglights are) Overall, they need to be more flat and more dramatic. That said, I'm sure the car will find PLENTY of happy owners and maybe it'll grow on me. It certainly is attractive, just not for me. (Yet ) The G6 GXP Street is a joke.... The stance SUCKS, the wheels are EVEN MORE HORRIBLE and probably the tackiest design GM has even created and the powerplant, or lack there of, is a disgrace. If the G8 has taken Pontiac 3 steps forward to becoming performance division once again, then the G6 and Torrent GXPs have taken it 2 steps back. They shouldn't be called GXP in the first place and the gawdy tack ons shouldn't even have made it past SEMA. Toyota will destroy GM and Ford if they have even half the chance.... I hope everyone can comprehend that. They will advance themselves at the expense of these two companies, ESPECIALLY while our companies are weak. GM will probably survive for the short term... Ford, I'm not so sure about. They never fully recovered from the anti-Ford media blitz perpetuted by the exploding Firestones. And now they, unlike GM, seem to still be in the crosshairs of media hellbent on shredding Detroit. P.S. Those are EXCELLENT pictures! 3x better than any of the rags and 10x better than GM media photos.

I agree, but I think more than anything else (In this area at least) is the clientele that seems to be buying the Aura. They all look like people who would normally be driving an Accord or Camry. Maybe GM has finally managed to crack that ellusive market!P.S. And I'm sure Lutz isn't "out of ideas" it was probably just a figure of speech.

I don't really believe that as truth... WE all know which division is vital, financially, to GM's success and it sure as hell isn't Saturn. I would tend to agree, in that the line up is excellent and SHOULD resonate with buyers. If it doesn't, then america has turned it's back on the domestics for good. On the other hand, I'm sure SOME excuses and improvements are needed, as nothing is or ever will be perfect. What about the slightly bland Astra interior? Or the non-enthusiast exclusive 3.6L in the new Vue RL? What about the interior of the Aura? There will ALWAYS be some excuse, because there is always room for improvement. Funny thing is, I can remember when Saturn was supposedly "In jeopardy of being phased out" according to some on this board. Now it seems to be the frontrunner for the new GM. In a way, it's exactly what Oldsmobile was in it's heyday. A platform for GM to bring some of it's best engineering and features to the consumer in a slightly more profitable package than Chevrolet. I just wonder how big this Saturn push will eventually become... Could it be that in 10-15 years Saturn will replace Chevrolet as GMs volume leader? I doubt it, but nothing seems far fetched since it hass less stigma than most GM divisions. YES!!!! As long as GM keeps this mindset, then all is well! It's going to take patience.... People aren't just going to throw down the Toyotas and Hondas overnight. The fact the GM is established well WILL help, but the key to success is definitely STRONG products, one right after the other. GM cannot afford to left up on the throttle one bit if they want to maintain the attention of the public and convince them that this isn't their fathers GM. I really hate this guy and his negative ass 'tude. But he does have a point. GM needs to rework it's image as much or MORE than it is reworking it's products. Because just like everyone else, they believe EVERYTHING they read... It's impossible to change an image that the media won't let die. Not to mention it's impossible to overcome the CONSTANT propaganda that Toyota and the asians in general are better all around. The media sucks... I know it, you know it and they know it.... 'Nuff said. As nice and sincere as that seems.... Press can still kiss the fatest part of my ass. GM needs to think of Toyota in the same terms that Toyota thinks of GM...... DESTROY ALL

I agree that this is a bad move. Ford allowed the Taurus to wither and become connotated with bad things. Calling the 500 "Taurus" now is only going to do 3 things. 1) Tarnish what little reputation the 500 has. 2) Serve as an embarassment to Ford, with the launch of the re-engineered 500 with the month later re-name and as an overall admission of failure, and 3) It's just going to further confuse the consumer who has now been exposed to widely known "Rental only" Tauruses, 2 different 500 designs and the Fusion that was supposedly the replacement for the Taurus. Sable is a different world entirely. That name sucks, it had NO identity and there is absolutely NO reason why Mercury should be saddled with it's return. Especially on a car as competent as the Montego. I really love the new updates and I think they work well with the existing roof line on the car (Unlike the Taurus) I agree about both the Astra and Vue RL.... I think the interior of the Astra is bland beyond belief, but here's to hoping it's at least WELL BUILT. As for the Vue RL, the whole Vue line seems to be a little too Korean for my tastes now. And I'm sad to see GM whoring out another one of it's true performance monikers to a "trim and bumper" status. Saturns Red Line designation was actually one of GM's 'sport' operations that had been correctly executed. Unlike GXP and SS, all of the cars up until this Vue featured truly unique content and truly exciting performance with some involvement from GMPD. Now that is no more. The Freestyle was always an excellent vehicle IMO, but just like GM, Ford couldn't market water to a nomad. The new updates make it more attractive and competent, but the name SUCKS, especially compared to "Freestyle" I think the Dakota updates were much needed and I think the new nose is exponentially more attractive than the outgoing model. This update reminds me of the 'muscular toughness' sported by the last Dakota (You know, before the recent redesign where it went from buff to weird and geeky) Maybe the 80K number includes El Camino (Ute) production? I would love to see Pontiac roll out 80K of these a year though. (Wishful thinking?) I agree... Scion has marketed itself as the answer to the question everyone else was ignoring (And is still ignoring, for the most part) The cars aren't that great, but the lifestyle that is sold with them far exceeds most car companies. Simply put, Scion gets customers by getting them to form an emotional attachment with what the product/brand represents, not the cars. Now, that's not saying Scion puts out horrible cars, but I think we can all agree that they're competent at best, especially in todays market. Subsequently, I'm willing to bet that Scion has a very LOYAL clientele as well.

Umm.... Am I the only one that really doesn't see any difference here? New headlights and tailights? Talk about PR engineering.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

So... Why even introduce the re-styled 500 at Detroit and LA last month??? Why not just wait a month and introduce the re-design as simply "Taurus"? If Ford is this confused and confusing with names then it doesn't give me much hope for their future.

I like it, but I don't know if GM went far enough.... It's certainly competitive, but does it suffer the 'old GM' think of "just competitive is good enough"? THE STYLING The styling is already being chalked up as an 'also ran' by Foreign Car & Import Driver. And they're not even mentioning how much better of a car it might be than any of the imports (Limiting the appeal to 'traditional' buyers from day one) Anti-American Automobile also refers to it as "The best American sedan since the Chrysler 300" But AutoWeek did have good things to say: Edmunds likens it to a Mazda 6.... I don't see the resmblence, and I think it's a pretty sh*tty thing to say since these are the same Pontiac traits that have been around since LONG before the Mazda 6 as well as Mazda in America. But, that actually might help people accept the car more as well. Then they criticize the rear of the car saying it is uninspired and fussy. As for my opinion.... I'm still not sure. I mean, it certainly is attractive and it isn't gawdy like the G6 'Bugs' edition but I'm not sure it's far enough. For the money, unless the G8 drives significantly better, I'd still have a hard time choosing this over the testosterone oozing Charger SRT-8 and I think the 300 is equally as attractive as the G8. Then, also consider that the production car will not have the decklid piece as standard, nor will it have the beautiful 20s (I can only imagine the MONSTROSITIES that GM is about to bolt on to this car given their latest disasters like pretty much all of the new Cadillac wheels, the new Chevy T900 wheels and the god-aweful G6 GXP units) On top of all that, it'll ride anywhere from 1/2-1" higher and on smaller wheels to boot. Not to mention, how is this 'conservative' car going to fare when the hot new Camaro and Impala (with the same platform and abilities) come on the scene and target essentially the same people? My guess is, not too good. But, by then hopefully GM will have injected some excitement either through an MCE, GTO or GXP version. So, I'll hold my final judgement, but I'm still not too sold. I really want to see real world pics and then I want to see the actual car that we're getting in a more interesting color. I think the gray is way too subdued for this introduction because it doesn't flatter the image of what Pontiac is. Essentially, everyone (especially given the tepid GTO outlash and the beautiful Solstice) was expecting an exciting Pontiac, however overwrought and tacky it might've been. Not only did they get a very conservative car, but also that car in a color and photography that pretty much kills what little excitement the design had in the first place. It's the equivalent of showing the new CTS in red.... A HORRIBLE idea that contrasts with what we expect from the division. (Think about it; every 'art & science' debut has either been in Silver or black and that's what people are conditioned to expect) The reason I even bring it up is because I think by doing it this way (Maybe intentionally on GM's part) it kind of gives everyone a sour first impression of the car, eventhough they might not realize it; it's subconcious. THE PLATFORM I think because of the weak... errr, conservative styling, this is where the car is going to have to excel. IT has the safety and dimensions to compete, now all we need is for it to compare well in driving characteristics. So, if I were GM I would work VERY hard to get good reviews for the dynamics of this car. It HAS to blow everyone away in order to 1) Get noticed 2) Reacquire the respect Pontiac once had in the performance world and 3) Convey the message to people who haven't considered a Pontiac in years, or ever, that maybe they should look a little harder before they buy that DCX, Lexus, Infiniti or even BMW product. It has to carve a niche of die hard enthusiasts that ARE NOT traditional "Pontiac or die" fans. Think, Subaru WRX, not a GREAT car, not a particularly attractive car, but fun to drive and has LOADS of die hard fans. NOTES TO GM: 1) Gradually improve the car yearly. Pontiac cannot afford to stand still on merit like Chevrolet and Cadillac. They have to prove their relevance. 2) Get good reviews. You have a competent product here and it needs TONS of exposure to get, or keep, the momentum at Pontiac going. If this is to be a performance division again, then you'll need to develop a new generation or clientele of Pontiac performance fans. 3) Bring on the GXP and bring on the FACTORY accessories (20s, bigger brakes, etc.) 4) Market it as WIDE TRACK!!!!!! 5) Stick that gorgeous new logo on all the new Pontiacs.

I still occasionally wonder about Budman. He really had a tough run of luck there right before he left. He was a great guy and I hope everything worked out alright.

The reason I posted the thread wasn't to get attention or drama. It was 2 fold: 1) I wanted to defend my name. Because I was locked out of the lounge I had no idea what was being said about me and I wanted to get the jump on things and give you guys my take on the situation from the source. Not to mention, I wasn't sure how limited my membership would be. and 2) For closure... Plain and simple. I was one of the original members of this site and I've been here most every day for around 6 years now. Believe it or not, it does affect me to leave. A lot of me has went into this site and a lot of my soul has been beared here fighting for what I believe in. But if you think it's for attention/drama, that's fine too... I respect all opinions, even if I don't like them. I reiterate that I probably will not leave the site entirely and will occasionally post, in fact I think this set up is probably going to be better for me because I don't feel like i HAVE to come to the site all the time and I don't feel like I HAVE to defend GM at all costs. (You know, like the respect of others here and my friendship with people)

Ya know, I find it funny how everyone always says that.... Yet they never apply that same logic to the countless new 'effeminate--want to be taken seriously as a male' Tundra buyers and frat punks in their 'x treme sport' Xterras and Titans. Or even the 'look at me I'm a big exec' their high dollar flashy Mercedes. I'd love to have an H2... Mainly just to piss people off.

And the media succeeds at reviving yet another useless-piece-of-garbage asian automaker!!! YAY!!!

That's because we all know the 'educated elite' on the coasts are far too good to consider a '$h!ty domestic' They do what they're told by their equally naive and self loathing friends in the media. To hell with domestic industry, they make their money off the backs of those effected by their bad decisions, not the bad decisions themselves. So it won't bother these "educated" people to dig the graves of the "Detroit 3"

I admit, I was optimistic. But now the same old pessimism is setting in. But the difference now is that the GM products have been getting favorable press unlike in the past. I know it's going to take time (Which is doubled because GM isn't an asian company--you know, they can do no wrong in america's eyes) GM can kiss their title goodbye if this is any indication of 'NON FLEET influenced mix' I think what GM needs to do is HIRE SOME DECENT PROMOTERS AND MARKETING PEOPLE and then just give it time... It's going to take time and dedication, especially for brands like Saturn, Buick and Pontiac. The buyers aren't going to come in overnight. The Outlook is just getting started, there is a HUGE hole in the line up that the Astra needs to occupy immediately and the Aura has been victim of HORRIBLE marketing and advertisement. (No surprise there, it is GM afterall... 1 step forward, 2 steps back) Not to mention, this year was already forcasted to be flat and January never sets the charts ablaze. PS: Wasn't the Solstice introduced at this time last year? That might explain it's slide... A few other things of interest: The 9-5 redvamp at least gave the car a little bit of life, sales are low but up 64% then you take a look at 9-7X sales and see another pleasant surprise, that it is up 19%. It's also interesting that the Canyon is up 35%

Yet another excellent accomplishment by GM that will go UNPROMOTED and UNNOTICED... Yay! (Sarcasm)