FUTURE_OF_GM

Meh, they would just justify it with the bullsh*t yuppie speech about "None of us are actually americans, we all came from somewhere."

Nags Head is nice in a relaxing sort of way. Back then, it wasn't very commercial at all (winter of '94 -- I'm sure it's changed) I went in the winter and it was peaceful, if not depressing. Even the Hardees and Wal-Mart were seasonal back then. I'm a light house fanatic, so be sure to see a couple of those. I think the coolest are Hatteras (naturally) and Bodie (because of the story behind it) Wilmington is nice, lots of history there. New Bern was cool as well and seemed to me to have a certain charm that Wilmington lacked. Honestly, the coolest coastal place I've been in the Carolinas is Charleston SC. There is just SO MUCH history there!

I want to go sooooo bad...

It's an interesting piece... I think it's still the largest all concrete structure in the world (My GF could tell you all about it, but I'm no architect) and still the tallest building on a significant portion of the east coast.

That's Cesar Pelli's masterpiece. It' concrete all the way through (no steel, except in the middle) so the walls are about the size of a 3rd world country Charlotte has put height restrictions on all new buildings so that the BAC building will remain the tallest structure in the area.

Yep, that would be the BAC building... The Hearst tower beside it is also one of my favorites. They're both kind of gothic. BAC: Hearst:

Charlotte has this bad habit (and I say that because I am a preservationist above all else) of going into places and just bulldozing everything down. My guess is that the surface lots are a by product of that. I've also heard that Charlotte is very against free standing parking garages for some reason. Parking is a nightmare though; I have friends that work for BAC that pay $500-800 each year to park and they still have to walk multiple blocks to get to their offices. This 'bulldozing everything' was a BIG trend in the late 60s & early 70s (as the city was dying along with the textile industry -- maybe they subscribed to the sociological theory that old buildings increase opportunity for crime) That's essentially what they did to uptown Charlotte and that's one of the reasons why it's so well planned and so clean. It's basically NEW. But at the same time, it's really sad for me because only one or two historical buildings remain at the core of uptown. The most extreme examples of this were that some african american communities around the city were just basically destroyed in the 60s, forcing their residents to relocate. It was a sad and very unfair occurrence.

Might I suggest a burning (GM) flag... And some 'blue collar' stife/struggle lyrics...

*yawn* Look at that ugly interior. I guess it matches the rest of the car though....

OHHH TEH NOOOZZZZZ The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!! Even in the face of the Tundra being an epic flop, the media is still lobbying hard for it's success. (Of course, at the expense of the WEAKEST domestic nameplate) (Dodge is all but dead, remember? The media certainly wants you to remember that!)

If we're going to consolidate to channels, we need to consolidate them all the way GM sees it. 1) Chevrolet: 1,801,131 2) Buick/Pontiac/GMC: 781,541 3) Cadillac/Hummer/Saab: 210, 012 4) Saturn: 188,004 I don't really know why GM is scaling back Pontiac. Unless most of it is fleet, or they can't make adequate return on investment, or they can't fund 2 volume divisions... Or maybe they just WANT to make Pontiac what it is supposed to be. I have a feeling that it has to do with R.O.I. and GM's increasingly GLOBAL stance... Pontiac isn't global and Pontiac has the worst image of any GM division in america. I think those two things speak volumes. I certainly hope GM's management is smart enough to use Chevy and Buick to capture some of those lost sales.

And BTW, I think Enzora is from Raleigh or that area, if you want to hit him up.

NC is great. I can't say much about Raleigh because I haven't been there in a while (probably close to 10 years) but I do know that people speak highly of Chapel Hill. Charlotte is a very nice city. It's not as pretty as the mountains (Asheville -- where I'm originally from) but it's clean and for the most part everyone I've encountered is nice. My only complaints are 1) Sprawl... Uptown is grouped together pretty well, but the metro area is HUGE and seems to never end. 2) Lack of culture. If any of you have ever been to Asheville, you know that we have an ABUNDANCE of culture. Charlotte on the other hand is a very 'black and white' business oriented environment. (Naturally. It's the banking capital) It has culture (the art district I live in now is amazing) but you have to look really hard to find it. Traditionally, Charlotte is divided into two sections; uptown, which is the newer, cleaner, (and definitely safer) big bank and skyscraper section. The people that hang out their are usually the banking employees. The environment is nice in that it's elegant and classy but it can also be very uptight and mundane. Downtown is the area surrounding the city that consists of industrial architecture, small businesses, older neighborhoods and sometimes 'the ghetto.' This is what gave Charlotte such a bad reputation of crime and poverty. But now, the city is starting to 'push out' from uptown and revitalize a lot of these areas. NoDa, my arts district, is one area that is very nice, but definitely still on the edge of 'transition' 'Elizabeth' is another area that is nice now as is 'South End' and 'Dilworth' Charlotte planners once subscribed to the old sociological concept of putting section 8 housing next to million dollar neighborhoods so that the "disadvantaged" people could "learn good habits from the well off" As a result, Charlotte still remains a mixture of good and bad neighborhoods. For instance, 'South Park' one of our premiere neighborhoods with million dollar houses is positioned right next to section 8 housing, so you'll literally drive from 'yuppie-ville' to 'ghetto land' at one stoplight. I don't know what your tastes are, but there are tons of small diners and dives that have great history and great food. The uptown scene has a bunch of clubs as well (I don't club because me in a club would be like waiving a red flag at a bull) There are also quite a few historical elements that are really cool to see. The outskirts of the city (the surrounding counties) are pretty much stereotypical NC (very country and simplistic -- charming) I'm a bit eccentric, so I'm not sure if I should be giving you advice on what to do. I usually spend my free time either partaking in the car culture of the region, taking in historic or "old" things that I think are cool (industrial things, antiques, etc) and hanging out in my neighborhood with the localites. There are some cool museums and tourist-y things too. A no brainer, but here it is anyway: Wikipedia: Charlotte Charlotte Neighborhoods NoDa Here is a list of local eats that I posted a while back: http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...OF_GM&st=20

Good news... IMO.

Last I heard, the only rumored vehicle is the new Regal. Other tidbits: *Pontiac has been said to have as many as 4-6 products as a niche brand (said today at NAIAS) *Those have included the G5, which some believe might either be the current car for longer than the Cobalt is produced OR a coupe counterpart to the sedan only (because GM is apparently dumb) Cruze. The Cruze is supposedly biger and more premium than the Cobalt, which would leave the G5 room to exist. * The G8 has been mention in EVERY article as a vehicle that stays. * Mark LaNeve said that the G8 ST COULD be on again if the market recovers. * The G6 has, curiously, been left out of some of the articles as a model that will continue * The G3 looks to be a short run, for sure as it isn't included in any of the mentions. * The Solstice and Solstice coupe are both mentioned as staying multiple times.

{FOG thinks to himself} "If I had enough money to buy the Buick Blackhawk, I'd probably tell the locals to eff off and drive it as much as I wanted to. Pay the cop/ticket and have your fun!"

Maybe corporate politics were the root of the cancelation... GM never seemed too hip about the G8 ST anyway. It would've certainly detracted from the image of Pontiac. (Idiots like C&D we're already cracking dumbassed 'mullet' comments and the like) But some people believe that GM will STILL add another Zeta vehicle to the Camaro line. What's left? 1) Zeta Buick.... But honestly, with the new LAX and it's AWD replacing the Lucerne and the (supposedly) impending Alpha Buick, what's the point? 2) Zeta Cadillac... Maybe, but wasn't it supposed to be produced at LGR? And sadly, unless it's a TRUE 7 series competitor, I don't think Cadillac sees the need for anything larger than the CTS. They will instead focus on Alpha and it's potential. 3) Impala replacement? Nope... GM won't give up the volume. Impala is going on stretched Epsilon. 4) Anything from Pontiac? We all know the answer to that. So, again, what's left? 1) A production version of the Denali XT and/or 2) The rumored replacement for the Escalade EXT. Think about it, GM can kill the very small ST program and produce one of those two variants instead and benefit CAFE much more, sell many more units and make a lot more profit on each unit. So, ironically, what Camino suggested a very long time ago (about the Escalade moving to Zeta) might be the cruel irony that caused the cancellation of his beloved ST. I don't think Pontiac is dead and I don't think the ST cancellation will phase the division that much (over all) Holden is doing all sorts of things to keep Zeta viable for future use, that will automatically transfer to the G8 line. Unless GM is seriously literally losing it's ass on Kappa (which I doubt given the low volume) the program probably won't be cut, especially considering exports. As for the G6... If GM refreshes the car correctly and grows Buick away from Pontiac at the same time, it'll be more relevant than ever (especially in the absence of the Aura)

From Pontiac Underground

From what I've heard, there is nothing that will prevent Kappa from continuing for quite some time. No regs or safety hurdles that would cause GM to either invest or cancel. The articles about GM canceling this and that were as much mudslinging as anything. (After all, Pontiac was the weakest division, so that is cause for the media to attack it and push for a phase out. Same thing for Mercury)

BTW, Current word is that Pontiac is looking at keeping the G8, G6 and Solstice as it's three models. I think that would be an excellent line up.

I actually like it.... A lot. Of course, I loved the Beat. (I always love cars that look that pissed off) One person said to look for marker lights and if it has those, then it likely meets US specs. It does indeed have marker lights.

And to a lot of them, Bob Lutz is an enemy as well. to sticking to your guns!

Pontiac is far from dead... Gm can't even decide WTH it is going to produce from one week to the next, much less the fate of any of it's divisions now.

I'm pretty sure they showed a red one at SEMA (with cool wheels) At any rate, I thought about dropping a line to PCS. If what he said about the Vauxhall was true then maybe he could pull some string or you and land an ST. I think GM owes it to you. Or maybe these were just mocked up press shots.

Reminds me a bit too much of the MKS... But I'm hopeful! I see lot of Interceptor concept in the rear quarter.