FUTURE_OF_GM

S.S.D.D. (same sh*t, different day)

Actually, I think those are some of GM's best work. They actually seem successful at targeting the demographic which the Traverse sells to the most. And they're clever (albeit cheesy)

You wouldn't like the mountains then.

Might I interest you in some speed metal and a plane ticket to the mountains of NC? And while we're making comparisons (RE: your departure from the staff here. None of us want to see that, but I agree that C&G needs direction as bad as GM does) I can kinda relate too... After several years of being too scared to work for GM or Ford (Never mix passion and business, especially when the passion is doomed to failure) I have this undying urge to make a balls to the wall move to Detroit and commit to being a lifer. I mean, if I'm destined to be miserable and live a life of constant strife, it might as well be for a good reason.

+1 But my guess is that they're playing it safe on the marketing side. Lacrosse, at the very least, is an established name and GM really doesn't have the $$$ to be launching new names right now.

I agree and disagree. The G8 is "icing on the cake" because the Commodore has already paid the bills. The G8 is profitable regardless of what it sells. But I do see your point and I agree. We can either suffer (more, for longer) now or suffer for good. That is and always has been a myth according to Mark LaNeve.

The point is; it was a niche product to begin with. What the market "made it" has nothing to do with the conversation.

http://www.financialpost.com/most_popular/...html?id=1143469 Remember all that talk of NOT eliminating divisions. This guy gets it.

TestAmenT -- The Formation Of Damnation

ORLY?!?! Seems that 40K a year in this segment is niche any way you cut it. (That's ll they intended to sell in the first place) My heart goes out to you Camino. Seriously man, you're one of the most diehard GM people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. I don't understand why GM would cancel the ST unless G8 sales and the imminent death of Zeta has made them reconsider. (G8 sales shouldn't even factor given how bad the market is in general) Development was absolutely nothing. All of the parts have already been developed and all of the engineering done. The only thing I can think is that GM thinks the market tanking in 2009 will SERIOUSLY affect the business case. Because, lets face it, as much as we want to believe otherwise and as much potential as something like the ST has when done right. As is, most of the sales would be to enthusiasts and people who need a secondary vehicle. And in a year of 10 million vehicle sales, it might not do so well. I do however hope that GM reconsiders the Sportwagon now.

That never seemed to matter when the domestic sales slides were being compared to 'banner sales months'

Want some more of that kool-aid? I guess the RX looks like what Toyota would've given Lexus had they been 'duplicating' CUVs in the 80s as well then. I know that it doesn't matter (because people will buy what they're told, so long as it has the right badge on the hood) but the new RX is hideous. The asians are still too stupid to understand basic design principles.

And no one has EVER disputed that here.

Yes... It seems that the media is even having an effect on the most hardcore fans. Wrong. The fact that Nissan made horrible cars was illustrated by their financial situation in the late 90s and early 00s. No one bought their cars because their cars were crap. And their car still are crap, save for a couple of them. The Altima is a decent car, but it's big advantages are 1) It's marketing was/is superb and 2) It's a mid-size japanese car and no doubt rides on the coat tails of the "other two" cars success. The Versa is competent and sells mostly on price. (It's cheaper than even an Aveo) And the Sentra is just now a competent car with the redesign. Nothing else at Nissan is all that great, and there sales NOW even reflect that as their recent loses reflect the big three more than the japanese powerhouses. The Z car is nice, but built on a sedan platform (That's a big complaint that I've heard owners whine about all along) The last Maxima certainly didn't set the world on fire. The Titan and Armada are epic failures. The Quest an even bigger failure. Even the Frontier, Pathfinder and Xterra have not aged well and the Rogue is says 'cheaply made' like the Sentra. Yet somehow Nissan maintains this *magical* image that it is one of the hotter automakers. It's all about PR. And how is that any different from, oh... say... SATURN? Yet with good products, we see how the companies took vastly different directions both in the media and the eyes of the public. What about the horrible quality now? If a domestic division had "recovered" as well as Nissan and then had the issues that Nissan had, they'd be forced into bankryuptcy by disdainful americans and horrible, biased press. But with Nissan, no one seems to notice outside of the few that don't carry influence. You're just as full of $h! as you always were. I deal with how people react and interact with each other. Just because you (arrogantly) perceive things differently from the MAJORITY of people in the industry doesn't mean that you're right. In fact, it means that the discussion is over YOUR head because your assumptions apparently AREN'T founded in reality. Do the research, then if you're right, you'll have the room to talk down to people here. But until then, you're just another asshole with an opinion. The media and pop culture CONTROL perception... And, as a result, they LARGELY control the fate of the automakers and our purchase decisions. Don't believe me? Then why were the automakers grilled about personal jets in congress? (HINT: Because the Wall Street Journal brought it to Congress' attention) Why was Audi almost ran out of business in the 80s? (HINT: Because the media blew quality concerns way out of proportion) Why did Suzuki spend 10+ years sueing Consumer Reports for falsifying reports on the Sidekick? (HINT: Because what THE MEDIA says MATTERS a whole lot!) In fact, if my knowledge of perception and marketing is so wrong, then why have marketing and different divisions in the first place?!? If image and "word of mouth"/opinion don't matter in the grand scheme of things, then what's the point? Like it or not, your "educated" way of seeing the industry DOES NOT jive and isn't worth a damn to the average consumer. They see an article in the paper about Detroit and they form (or most likely CONFIRM) a negative opinion. therefore they will not buy a domestic. Nissan however, because of our cultures acceptance and promotion of other cultures, ESPECIALLY the japanese culture (because we believe they are *so damn advanced* in everything) can "brush off" a bad image and live to fight another day.

Yeah... At first, I was excited that the UAW was taking the brunt of the hatred for the big 3. But, ya know, this is american and it is the american media. So, just like the SUV boom, they'll trun it around on GM, Ford and Chrysler to somehow screw them over. Welcome to the 'new west'. People seem to think they know the best for everything and they also seem to think that your business is always their problem as well.

Yep... It's amazing ho ignorant people like that really are. My NASCAR buddies here in Charlotte are VW and Honda fans. We had about an hour long debate at the bar about how I thought the Detroit companies should get a "bail out" and how they didn't think so. Finally I said; "Well, you'd better hope for the sake of your job that they do get a bail out." To which I was met with silence. And RE: the VW's being "too complicated to be reliable" bull$h!. I agree 100%. Last week GMI posted an article by a California wack-o (Hope Croc is reading this) that stated she would never buy a domestic and that she owns a new Beetle that has quality problems because it is "over engineered in a manner to which only the Germans could take it." Oh, and then she admitted to being impressed with the Enclave, but wouldn't buy it because it was a Buick and then admitted to owning a Jag. (Guess the dumb b***h didn't realize that until about 6 months ago, a Jaguar WAS an american car.)

Like it or not, the stigma/hatred is greater for domestics. That's why Nissan (makers of horrible cars in the 90's -- and still A LOT of questionable cars. i.e. the Altima is basically all that saved their asses and it isn't even a great car) was able to recover so quickly. It was japanese, so it fell right into "the new big 3" that the press was so desperately trying to build and promote. therefore the sheeple were sold on the idea without a second thought. Oh, and turbo, my education pertains DIRECTLY to this, so it isn't over my head at all.

This one is a little rough. It also transitions to "The End Of The Line" about halfway through (MetaliicA is famous for medleys of their own songs) But it gives a good idea of how brutal the song is live. (I'm so damn mad that they're not touring my part of the country >_>) MetallicA -- "That Was Just Your Life" (Live) Sound isn't that great and there are some errors because this was the premiere, but still bad ass; A little bit of vintage Static-X: These are pretty low quality, but still good. "Dirthouse" (Live) -- One of my all time Static X favorites. New Static-X: "Cannibal" (Live) Linkin Park: I don't like their new direction, but they're excellent lyricists and damn, Chester can scream.

I agree that the Sentra was cheap feeling on the interior front; that is one downfall. But the interior is still more intertesting to look at than the Astra.

And the begrudging and backhanded press has already started. Edmunds seems unimpressed as they bitch about the styling, chrome wheels, steering wheel and try to pass it off as an update to the existing Equinox. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshow...oletequinoxr343 And is it just me, or does the Equinox look much nicer than the SRX?

Yes and no... I can see where the cars can be a lot of fun. And I still have fun in them. But once you drop 30-50K into a car restoring it, it's just not worth taking the chance of breaking something or running into something. I'm a 'hot rodder' through and through, but I consider part of that being a 'preservationist' as well. Yeah... But with the crowd that you're probably referring to (People who don't understand the hobby in the first place) they've probably already stereotyped the guy (based on the age, and brand of the car as well as his personal appearance) before he even does anything 'stupid'. I mean, I'm college educated and I live in an urban arts district. yet to some of my yuppie friends I'm still "a redneck with old cars" (An identity that I accept and own)

+1 Empty parking lot.... The guy can OBVIOUSLY drive pretty good as well. I really don't see the issue with it, as long as he isn't endangering other people. As for the stupidity at the end of the video... Well, either the guy has an interesting sense of humor or he's just stupid. (That part did annoy me) I was young and dumb once and I did some stupid sh*t in cars, but usually it was out in the country and very late at night. I would never drive my classics like that though.

Think they don't "flaunt it" because of all the 'moral goodness' in the company (which is what the PR team wants you to believe) or because they fear backlash? Honestly, I don't even think a competitive Cobalt would've helped GM. With the media in high gear promoting Detroit as the 'gas guzzler' manufacturers, and the state of GMAC AND the constant talk of bankruptcy. I'm not sure anything could've saved them (And that's the point, right?)

Ya know... I had a very scary experience a couple of weeks ago. When we totaled the Cavalier, we (finally) got a rental. The rental was a 2008 Nissan Sentra. Now, I've never been a "small car enthusiast" even though I drive one everyday. I love my Focus (daily driver) and that's about it on the small car front aside from the occasional performance entry (Cobalt SS, MazdaSPEED 3, etc.) However, I could definitely see myself (In a parallel life where I wasn't a domestic communist) buying and really enjoying a Nissan Sentra. I was very impressed by the comfort level and usability of that little car. For people that want something with some pep a little style and functionality, it's hard to go wrong with that car. That just made me more bitter about the automakers. I want SO badly for GM & Co. to succeed, but c'mon man! Where is our 'Nissan Sentra'?!?! Is it really that hard to design a GREAT class leading product?

Excellent Post!