Camino LS6

Gorgeous! (except for the quad headlights and the rear bumper being too high) Tweak those, and you have pure sweetness.

There might be something to my earlier question: I saw on the news yesterday that consumer confidence has dropped 30% since the spike in fuel costs started.

So? 1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain. 2. Europe is no indicator for our market. 3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans. You clearly have little insight into the experience of a small business owner. Does it fulfill my needs? How much does it cost to operate/maintain? How does it drive? Can I paint an effective advertisement for my business all over it? Can I service it conveniently? Is it reliable? Those are the questions asked by a business, NOT "Can I get it lower, longer and wider?" You clearly know absolutely nothing about contractors - read Balthy's post for a quick primer.

I will say that both the Ford and GM offerings are beyond long-in-the-tooth, but an update to include diesels could change everything. The Ford is just pure crap too, driving one is serious punishment - it does nothing very well. Maybe this Fiat will do well - we shall see.

Congrats, DF! Glad I didn't have to judge this one...

It is an indicator of it's abilities. If the Ducato provides for better fuel economy and/or better ride and/or a good out the door price.... it will sell. It's not just another Econoline... and that's it's advantage. Lots of "ifs" in there. It will be the comparison to Sprinter that will tell the tale.

So? 1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain. 2. Europe is no indicator for our market. 3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans. 1. A plumber/electrician/cable t.v. installer doesn't care about the look of the van. Look at how beat up most of them get (with little to no repairs done) in just a few years of service. All they care about is having a nice flat area to have their name painted on. Fleet managers care even less. You think the vehicle buyer at FedEx is going to care? 2. Europe is an indicator of their capabilities.... or do you think they don't have electricians, plumbers, and small package delivery there? (seriously... get out of the woods a bit more) 3. They won't because it doesn't matter to the target market. 1. You are simply mistaken here, contractors do care about how their work trucks look - they take great pride in that. Trust me, I know. Fleet managers are another breed entirely. 2. Again, So? Different markets, different preferences. Sprinter sold based on a distinct interior height advantage, what new thing does this Fiat bring to market? Europe's use of this van is neither a plus nor minus for its market performance here. Completely irrelevant. 3. Put it next to the Sprinter and ask the question again. 1. I see we need a "find the crappiest looking work van" car-spotters. 2. Sprinter also sold based on ability to have a high(er) fuel economy diesel without having to go to an HD. The Ducato isn't even offered in a gasoline version. I expect it will be diesel here as well. As far as the mid-level contractor market (plumbers, electricians, etc.) you have a really distorted view of Europe. For that target market, there is nothing an Econoline can do that a Ducato cannot. 3. The Sprinter isn't a particularly attractive piece itself. Dodge sold 14,600 Sprinters in 2008. If that's the benchmark they have to hit... the Ducato will be fine. Look Drew, our positions are not mutually exclusive here - but I will respond point by point just the same. 1. Pointless sarcasm. Of course you can find plenty of spent work vehicles, but that doesn't change the sense of pride contractors have in their trucks and vans. I guarantee the worst of the worst will be the fleet vehicles, and the best the tools of the trade for independent contractors. Small contracting businesses have good reason to care about the appearance of their work vehicles. 2."For that market" - is not in dispute here. I'm simply saying that the van's European sales performance simply doesn't matter when bringing it here. I have no distorted view of Europe, I'm simply saying that this van's ubiquitous presence there tells us nothing about its prospects here. 3. I wouldn't be so sure about that, the Sprinter has already been established in the narrow market you indicate - this new entry strts with a disadvantage.

So? 1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain. 2. Europe is no indicator for our market. 3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans. 1. A plumber/electrician/cable t.v. installer doesn't care about the look of the van. Look at how beat up most of them get (with little to no repairs done) in just a few years of service. All they care about is having a nice flat area to have their name painted on. Fleet managers care even less. You think the vehicle buyer at FedEx is going to care? 2. Europe is an indicator of their capabilities.... or do you think they don't have electricians, plumbers, and small package delivery there? (seriously... get out of the woods a bit more) 3. They won't because it doesn't matter to the target market. 1. You are simply mistaken here, contractors do care about how their work trucks look - they take great pride in that. Trust me, I know. Fleet managers are another breed entirely. 2. Again, So? Different markets, different preferences. Sprinter sold based on a distinct interior height advantage, what new thing does this Fiat bring to market? Europe's use of this van is neither a plus nor minus for its market performance here. Completely irrelevant. 3. Put it next to the Sprinter and ask the question again.

Sprinter's main advantage is its inside height over Ford and GM vans. Its advantage over the big Fiat is in appearance - the Sprinter looks more buttoned-down and serious. I'll grant that this is a small factor, but not that it doesn't exist. As for the little one, Transit Connect will trounce it.

So? 1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain. 2. Europe is no indicator for our market. 3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans.

That made be more true with this sort of vehicle, but not entirely so. There is always an advantage to a good look - even in utilitarian things. The Transit Connect is a good example of this, it has an appeal to a broader base because it has an eye-catching design. There is an emotional factor even in business vehicle purchases (especially small businesses) that ought to be considered.

These two vans? Double ugly.

This contest proves that small cars don't have to be ugly.

I really should own one of these... in both sizes!

Makes me wonder about other segments, are people scared about their fuel cost or the economy in general because of the fuel cost?

You picked a good day for it. Hope it all goes smoothly.

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

The Richard Branson profit motive part works for recreational spaceflight for tourists, and hopefully one day for regular commercial flights as the crafts can go much faster. The more abstract science-y research-y stuff with no concrete profit opportunity will still be publicly funded. NASA will administer grants to private companies, which is how much (if not most) government research is carried out. NASA is a bureaucratic and bloated mess--winding it down to some grant experts who fund energetic and innovative private firms seems like an improvement, no? No, no it doesn't. All of that should take place subordinate to bold exploration. The history of the space program shows a grand display of advances in technologies that could not have happened without it. It has spurred the growth of countless industries and thus repaid us many times over. Current NASA policy is unforgiveable, and it's current boss needs to be given the boot. NASA is pointless when it isn't bold.

Human nature, and human aspirations, require a human presence.

Not at all what I was talking about. Cost isn't the factor I was making reference to with my assertion that reliance on private industry is a century early. We have barely taken the first baby-steps into the infinity of space. At this point, we can't even conceive of all of the potential it holds for our future. Right now, it is critical that we forge ahead without any regard for profit in the monetary sense. Space exploration is bigger than such pedestrian concerns - it is about our potential as a species. You won't often hear me call for government to lead the charge in human endeavors, but this is one such case. Some things simply can't be done when the base motive of profit is the only driver. The aspirations of humankind are balanced in a very real way on our ability to explore space - it is how we move from the finite to the infinite. There is no greater commons than space, we need to view it as such. I support commercial ventures in space wholeheartedly, but they will never be an adequate substitute for NASA or its progeny.

Depending on commercial entities for our future in space is about a century too early.

YES!

I saw that guy being interviewed and did a serious doubletake. I had to keep watching until I was sure about the fangs...

Two more launches, and I'd like to see one of them. Never been.

Begins with a beautiful liftoff.