Camino LS6

OK... sorta... for a sedan Not so sure it's ok for a Porsche though.

If done right, the downsized Zeta they are talking about could hit a sweet spot that others have missed. GM will still have to have something better than the competition to attract the genericans, good,class-leading trucks/suvs, and crossovers that top the charts, Malibu, and Cruze (hate that name), to make it all work. But no matter the segment, they have to stand out. Also-ran copies of the Camry need not apply. Without some cars like Solstice, Camaro, HHR, G8, and so on, no one will notice how good GM's more modest offerings are. A productionized HX under the GMC or Chevy banner would fit the bill as well. Its a new mentality of creativity and innovation that GM needs most of all.

Pontiac haters? NO. G3,G5,Vibe haters. :AH-HA_wink:

So what you are saying here is that firing RW accomplishes nothing except for punishment? Hardly a basis for moving GM forward, I would think. Still, the Mob called for blood - so Obama gave it to them. Political positioning drove this, IMO.

But buyers look to GM for other things, so salvation for GM needs a different face. To my way of thinking, that leaves affordable RWD an open market opportunity for GM.

Before we begin, let us state clearly that this is speculation by Karl Denninger at The Market Ticker. Examining the various stakeholders' interests in General Motors, Denninger has come up with a scenario that supposes GM's bondholders might actually want the automaker to file for bankruptcy. The bondholders appear to be the biggest obstacle to restructuring. They're not allowing GM to reach its government-mandated target for debt reduction because they would lose much of their investment in the process. According to Denninger, however, the biggest and most savvy of those bondholders could get 100% of their investment back if GM files for bankruptcy. Those bondholders would have had their bonds backed by credit default swaps (CDS), which Denninger supposes would have been written in large part by insurance giant AIG. If that's the case, then we the taxpayers are on the hook to repay 100% of those bonds because the government has agreed to fulfill AIG's CDS collateral obligations. Thus, these particular bondholders would have no reason to help GM stay afloat by reducing its debt obligations. If GM goes under, they would just wait for checks from the government to be made whole again. Denninger goes on to say that in such a scenario, these bondholders could make even more than 100% of their investment back because the government backing takes place "even if the bonds have a recovery in bankruptcy." The only way to stop this would be for the government to decline to back any more AIG obligations, which could then bankrupt the "too big to fail" AIG depending on its ultimate exposure, but would save GM. Decisions, decisions... This theory relies on AIG being in the middle of things, yet it wouldn't be outrageous to think that the biggest and smartest institutional bondholders went to the best known CDS paper writer for protection. As if that weren't enough, Denninger suggests that government-backed warranty work could become "a monstrous inducement" for dealers to bilk the government, a version of Medicare fraud for the car industry. The next 57 days look to be as exciting as they will eventually be costly. Autoblog

Of all of the missed opportunities, this may be the sadest.

I don't remember the exact numbers for the maximum, but they aren't there right now. At this point they are just ramping up Camaro production (currently about 250 cars/day). They have alot of catching up to do to meet Camaro demand. With that said, they are nowhere near maximum output with Impala or Camaro at this moment. They could easily handle other zetas once the supply of Camaros is up to workable levels.

OK. To sum up, this is what the status is as far as I can see. - First we had Zeta (Commodore/G8 stc.) - Then Zeta II (Camaro) - Now we are set to get Zeta III ( a fusion of Zeta II and Alpha) So the current Zeta II Camaro will be a stand alone product with no true platform mates and a relatively short run until Commodore adopts this version. The current Zeta Commodore (G8 etc.) will have a decent run around the globe (except for here where we get only one variant). And then, instead of two sizes of RWD we will get something sized in between based on the two current Zetas. Sounds to me like this "downsized" zeta is also going to replace Sigma. With Kappa going away, it looks like future GM RWD will be one-size-fits-all. Corvette excepted. Not exactly what I'd hoped for, but it could be worse. And it sounds very promising for an F6 Camaro.

It could, at least in theory. The problem is that the Camaro version of Zeta will supplant the original. Would you re-tool for a platform that is already on the way out? Financial concerns, CAFE, and lack of a backbone, are why GMNA isn't building other RWD at Oashawa as had been the plan. All the more reason why I think an expanded G8 lineup makes sense in the short-term.

Actually it isn't. At least where Oshawa is concerned. That plant builds both the W impala as well as the Zeta (II) Camaro.

Right now, I see this as a key issue.

Before they lost their minds, GMNA was set to build a new RWD Impala and a new G8 at oshawa using the Camaro version of Zeta with Holden to follow later with a new Commodore. At that point they would have had flexibility to build any given Zeta model at either plant in response to volume demand and/or currency fluctuation.

The top pic reminds me of an early sixties Ford Fairlane and is mildly interesting. The upright rear pillars ruin it for me though - too trucklike. The second pic is just nasty looking. I've seen pics of early "Novaminos", the proportions have been way off on the ones I've seen.

It's not so simple as all that, the differences have little to do with the number of doors. GMNA made some rather major changes to the early Zeta so that Camaro would be what they wanted it to be. Unfortunately, that would require Oshawa to handle two versions of Zeta at once with all of the potential hassles of duplication and error. I suspect that it could be done, but efficiency would certainly suffer. The bottom line is that it would not be the same thing as building coupe and sedan versions of the same car.

Never heard of it before, sorry BP.

Maybe so, but BV doesn't need a new engine!

Touche

You had better be wrong about that, and the news does say otherwise.

Bastards!

Not easily. Camaro has an evolved version of Zeta to ride on, Holden still uses the original Zeta.

Sucks being me.

Alongside Commodore.

Too bad I don't love crappy little econo-sedans, then the world would be filled with desireable cars. GM does tend to kill anything I'd ever want, don't they?

I've strongly considered a few of these over the last few years - one of the last affordable midsizers of that era (from GM). Don't tell Cort, but I like them better than the first gen M/C.