Camino LS6

That's what gen II zeta is for. :AH-HA_wink:

No, I didn't. They would be at your Chevy and Buick dealers. :AH-HA_wink: At least until Camaro moved to Alpha, then it would be Pontiac's turn.

My rough draft article is here: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...t=0#entry362187 Edit it as you see fit. Let's finish this article as a C&G consensus. Have fun, but be serious.

I may just release this as is, and let the rest of the membership finish the writing as they see fit, editing freely. Could be fun.

I may just toss the idea of a fully-realized, and thought out article and post what I have later tonight to let you guys tear into it.

All of this is a question of balance. All of any type of car or truck need not disappear completely to make it work. While zeta may not support an ideal Camaro, it is perfect for other applications. (and a zeta Camaro would make me smile if it were in my garage).

Wow! I give a hint about using zeta to benefit the CAFE numbers and you guys hone right in on the target! Yes 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs should be the targets along with dumping a few other things like COL?Canyon and TB/Envoy. I've started working up a zeta/CAFE game plan article/opinion piece, but by the time I get it done, you guys will have figured it all out already. Bottom line: the biggest problem for GM meeting CAFE isn't zeta, but the trucks and SUVs.

I haven't forgotten. In fact, I found another one on the local craigslist that was an even better deal. But the timing won't work for either one.

* note: I don't know how far I want to take this just yet, And I will be editing as I go. Feel free to give feedback as I am just brainstorming at this point. Given the announced threat that the new CAFE regulations have become for the zeta platform, here is my prescription to use that architecture as an advantge in the CAFE race. At the bare minimum each zeta variant would offer flex-fuel and/or 2-mode and/or AFM, with diesel and other technologies applied as required. Cadillac: - sedan to replace both the DTS and STS: US-built and unlimited production. - AWD Crossover/wagon and Crewman style AWD crossover utility: Oshawa-built for domestic market as well as Australia and China with diesel variant for the European market. These would replace the Escalade trio at Cadillac. Chevrolet: Camaro: Oshawa-built for domestic, European, Australian, and Chinese market. Caprice: Holden-built, limited production version of Holden Statesman with high value, limited content/options - an entry level RWD sedan. Platform mate to Cadillac crossover Utility: With concurrent restrictions on Avalanche production and replacement of Colorado with smaller compact pickup (brazil), and the cancellation of trailblazer. Tahoe and high-end Silverado 1/2 ton production cuts. Buick: Riviera: Coupe and convertible, limited production, US-built for domestic and Chinese market Park Avenue: Limited Production HSV-built re-badge of the HSV Grange GMC: Platform mates to Cadillac Crossover wagon and Crossover utility These would be introduced in tandem with reduced Yukon and high-end Sierra 1/2 ton production. with Canyon and Envoy discontinued. Pontiac: G8 "family" of sedan, wagon, and sporttruck : All limited-production and Holden-built. Variants could ramped up/down,be rotated with new models, cancelled, or replaced as the market demands. As acceptance of the AWD crossover products grew the coresponding full-size truck variants could be further trimmed in production level, variants, and trim packages in the 1/2 ton models. The long term goal would be to replace most 1/2 ton full size trucks and SUVs with zeta-based unibody models which would meet the needs of most 1/2 ton truck buyers. The employment of diesel powertrains, AFM , two-mode hybrid, and efficient v6 options on these would further enhance the positive effect on CAFE while allowing more flexibility in offering cars such as Camaro and the G8s. The key would be flexibility and rotation of models, drivetrains,build loactions, and production levels. Zeta is the perfect platform for this mission as it provides a huge catalog of potential variants which can be phased in or out as conditions change. The above skeletal list only scratches the surface of potential variants. A second generation could address issues of weight and other limitations going forward. A platform of this type will always have a place in the portfolio if you think about it. Keeping a steady hand on the production throttle and product mix is all that's required. Once in full production shifts in emphasis could keep the whole program fresh and quickly responsive to changing conditions. With an attendant push in small cars as the other side of the coin, zeta could do very well indeed for GM. It is the heavy slant to trucks and SUVs that hampers GM's CAFE strategies and breeds all of the drastic pronouncements we've been hearing. GM must lighten the truck load to become nimble enough to dance around CAFE, and zeta can help with that. Don't forget that this would not happen within a vaccuum, other changes and technologies will be brought to bear at the same time. Two-mode spreading to other lines, mild hybrids and plug-ins, alternative fuels and new imports from other GM markets, lighter materials and flex-fuel products.

Let's hope that cooler heads prevail re. the fate of all GMNA brands.

I rejected the Magnum for the exact same reason - Zora and Arkus would never fit (even one at a time).

Z and I were discussing some CAFE possibilities on AIM earlier today in which Zeta provided an advantage in the race to meet CAFE. I'll let him post the details, but with a little imagination it is easy to see how zeta can be turned from a liability into an asset as far as CAFE goes.

OK, my turn. I promise all concerned that, finances willing, I will be ordering a shiny new Pontiac G8 ST GXP with a manual as soon as humanly possible.

Well folks, consider this: if nothing else, PCS has given us a great deal to consider and a window into the thinking of at least part of GM. I'd say that challenges us to come up with equally workable, but more palatable, ways to meet the new regulatory challenges faced by GM. As for PCS and his faction, they now know with certainty that their plan will meet with extreme resistance in this market. I see some value in both of those realities.

Responses like the last few posts make it worthwhile to work as a member of the C&G staff. Thanks guys, makes me proud of this place.

Even ones with Huge horsepower and dimensions. Again: Change the fuel, not the cars.

That remains to be seen.

Excellent post Hyper!

You make a strong case, Wildcat.

I believe that there are a great many things GM can do as alternatives to what you have advocated here. Far more positive alternatives.

Okay, now that I've said what officially needed to be said, let me make clear that I find the scenario laid out by PCS to be entirely wrongheaded, if not absurd in its extremity. The planned actions are reactionary and counter-productive in my view, and the short-sighted nature of those plans makes me fear for the future of GM. As for tact, yeah PCS, you could employ it a bit better. Still, no rules of the board are being broken by that fact - or you would have heard from me in an official capacity by now. So, how about we all tone things down just a hair and continue the debate in a civil fashion?

Step back and take a breath everyone. Some things to remember: - We don't "try" members in open forums, any action taken against any member will take place in the mod forum. Proceedings there are not discussed outside of it. - The proper way to lodge any complaint about any member is to contact a mod or admin about it. - C&G is a very tolerant forum, and we aim to keep it that way.

Sounds like an awful lot of unsold cars.

Works for me. Let GME play with the lesser platforms. Let's have GMNA do the right thing for a change.

Killing a brand to extend the production of two cars for two years? Inane approach. A wide variety in a flexible mix is what to deploy.