CARBIZ

That is the point: I count 22 Toyota/Lexus dealers in the Greater Toronto Area (pop. about 5 million) and 38-39 GM dealers - yet we are selling the same number of vehicles. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that those numbers aren't sustainable.

After 50 or so years, what was once the biggest Cadillac dealer in Canada is closing its doors in the next couple weeks. Downtown real estate is so hot that the owners couldn't resist the offer to build another 50 storey condo on their lot. GM is down 5 dealers in the greater Toronto area in the past couple years. Rumours are, another 5 are going to go.

I'm with Bob on this one. I used to love the Sebring/Stratus design, but what is going on over there now? Everything is boxy and square! I hate the Ram. The Dakota is much better. I like the 300, but it will wear thin unless a nice refresh can be thought up. I like the Grand Cherokee, but not the rest of the Jeep line, alhtough the YJ will always be a classic. Eight years ago I would have said Chrysler was at the forefront of design. Now, I would say they are making Ford look good.

There, there Toronto Star, as painful as that article may have been to write, at least it was buried in the business section where nobody but BMW drivers will read it.

I worked the Auto Show yesterday. Had a good laugh: Toyota and GM are side by side in the Skydome. (I refuse to call it the Rogers Center - Ted Rogers stole it from the taxpayers. We paid over $100 million for that albatross, and he buys it for $24 million! Scam!) Traffic looked down to me. Big disappontment: the '08 Malibu is up on a platform, roped off. No fanfare. Kinda sad where it is. Why can't we touch this thing? The Camaro is there again, still a mule - no guages (gages south of the border.) Still can't touch it. Still roped off. Do I hear SSR? GM's show is much flashier than Toyota's. Toyota's space is kinda small, actually. Mitsu is off to the side, like a referee. A cute guy at XM that I was talking to informed me that Mitsu has the hottest chicks. I took a quick look on my way to lunch and I guess he is right: lots of high skirts and high heels. Takes your eyes off the vehicles, I guess. GM's "rallye room" access is behind Toyota. More chuckles there. We can watch the sheeple fussing over the Camry in white (no chrome - makes the ugly grille, well, less ugly). I was told that we are not allowed to pee on the carpet in the Toyota section this year. We have to use the washrooms behind the Toyota section. Damn! The Monte Carlo is shoved behind a pilar in a darkened back area of the Chevy spot. Wow. Talk about the drooling great-grandfather being shunted to a back room at a family gathering! They have the Cobalt SS coupe and sedan there, but no SC that I could see. The $19,995 Malibu ( a super deal up here, folks) is a lonely place to stand. The $19,995 Uplander is also shunted to a back corner. GM is embarassed, I am embarassed, everyone is embarassed. While I shovelled free food in my face, I listened to a general sales manager talk to some of the people he knew. They were discussing a guy who has sold Toyotas who they recently picked up for their dealer. The guy was asked why he defected. His answer surprised me: he didn't like the clientelle at the Toyota store and he has a family member who works at the Oshawa plant. Probably got a lot of grief there. Didn't have much time to look around. My back was killing me. I hid out in a CTS before I mounted the stairs to get out of there. Yeah, my back was that bad. I brooded over my former boss' widow (he sold Cadillac for 20 years before becoming our manager) recently dumping her leased Alero GLS and ordering a BMW 3 series ( I ranted about this about 6 weeks ago in a thread here). Why didn't she consider this CTS? It is gorgeous. I am 6'2", the back seat was great. The front seat helped my back. It was under $50k. Her f'ing husband made his millions SELLING these damned things. Sigh. I left. Chrysler haunts the north building, as always. I am sorry, but their display looks desolate this year. Are they kidding me with the Compass and under Fugly Jeeps? Five years ago I was depressed at how GREAT the Chrysler line up looked, compared to Chevy. Now, I just hope the rumours about the DCX/GM thing are unfounded. Even though the P-B-GMC worries me, as a Chevy seller, I am very happy I don't sell Chrysler! Or Ford.

Dodgefan and others need to get themselves to a Chevy dealer and look at the '07 Equinox - completely different from the '06. The media bitching killed the electric steering. Gone. The interior has been greatly upgraded. Stabilitrak is standard. Rear discs are standard. Alloy rims are standard. GM is slowly trying to hide the trashy fabric that has haunted the Equinox/Malibu/Coblat since '04. The new fabric is much better; leather is best. Lots of new upgrades available, like heated cloth seats. The 3.4 is more than adequate. Careful where you gamble with your money. Bush is f$#king up so much in Iraq that $4 gas is going to be the norm, so go with the smaller engine as a hedge bet. The Torrent/Equinox argument is purely personal. I think the roof rack and other touches on the Pontiac are a little over done, but that is just me. Make sure you compare apples to apples. Don't look at a $26k (Canadian, don't know American prices) Equinox and then compare it to a $30k Torrent.

I can understand the remarks about the trust factor. Being gay and being out at work, it isn't easy. I mean, what do you do during the interview," Oh, by the way, I am gay?" No. I dare say it would make you look pushy and would give most prospective employers pause. Then when you are on the job and people start asking questions about your wife/girlfriend, etc. what do you do? I've always passed myself off as straight and then slowly confided in people as I get to know them. This can take a year or more, but it has always been successful. Professional sports is more macho than the car business, so it can't be any easier for pro athletes. Yes, I have actually had co-workers tell me they are disappointed that I didn't feel I could trust them sooner. Forget about anything staying in the locker room. When our sales staff goes to Vegas or anywhere else and married men cavort with female company, sooner or later EVERYONE back at the store finds out. Maybe not the spouses, but the potential for revenge is certainly there. It saddens me that we are still in this environment in 2007, but that is reality. I don't really get angry at homophobes, personally. They are either just misinformed or hiding their or past. I have had many former homophobes approach me and thank me for changing their opinion of gay people. I always bring my partner (we've been together for nearly 5 years now) to the Christmas parties at our company and the straight guys drag us to the dance floor (not because I am a good dancer, of course!). Times are slowly changing. I just can't believe celebrities like Hardaway and Mel Gibson should know better. It is one thing to yell out an obsenity in anger and then retract it, but quite another to go on and on with your hate/prejudices. These people can't be so stupid to think there won't be a $h! storm in the media!

As you may be aware, NASCAR has never reached the same divine status in Canada as it has (had?) in America; however, the few guys I know that worship at that throne are horrified at what Toyota is doing, and they flatly declare it will never work. I beg to differ. If history has told us anything, it is that we North Americans will swallow any bull$h! story, if we are fed it long enough. Japan Inc, unlike American/Canadian businesses, is very, very patient. They think in DECADES, not quarters. Toyota will just wait this out and in another 15 or 20 years, when this generation of die hard (read: 30 years old +) fans are drooling spit in their old age homes, the younger generation will have forgotten that Dodge/Ford/Chevy once dominated NASCAR and that Toyota never was an American car company. It worked for Nissan/Datsun/Nissan.

Hey, guys, it works both ways. I had a "customer" call me up last week (I use the quotation marks because this guy was a major a-hole) to inquire about a 2WD Avalanche. After describing what he wants, he tells me he has another quote from another dealer (here we go, I think), gives me the payment he was told, then adds that he already signed the deal and gave them a deposit, but that they know he is shopping around. WTF? I told him that that was the most unethical thing I have ever heard of, told him that he has LEGALLY bought the vehicle (and under Ontario rules, the dealer has 90 days to deliver it), that he cannot get out of it and that under OMVIC (the licensing body that governs us sales type folk) rules, I cannot even be talking to him. He got all snotty and said that if I don't want his business, he would just call someone else. Fine, I told him, because I don't want your business. One item to consider, folks, is that after you have beaten up your sales person, and gotten the deal of a life time, the human reality is that there is not necessarily a lot of incentive on the part of the dealer to fight and claw for your deal if they have no money in it. That's just the facts. If it is a hot selling vehicle and they are not making any "gross," there is no extended warranty bought, etc., the deal may fall to the back burner. I have seen managers move the foundation of the building for a deal where 3 or 4 grand was being made. Favors are called in. Personal calls are made. Think about the business you are in. Which customer do you pull out all the stops for? The one who whines and nitpicks, or the one who was a breeze to deal with and brought you coffee to the counter? Sorry to hear about the deal, Creative, I hope the rules in your neighborhood are different because in Ontario they don't have to give your deposit back for 90 days, unless otherwise specified in the deal. And, BTW, even if the incentives "end" Feb. 28, your deal is signed, so they should have a week or two AFTER March 1 to deliver the vehicle and still protect your price.

At a recent sales training meeting, GM brought out some big guns from Oshawa to preach to the choir about how great our product is. Most of us were Chevrolet dealers and every time we heard the Acadia name mentioned, we wanted to scream. Lots of time was spent on the ecotec engine and how it is the greatest engine since the 3.8. Talking about the tuner crowd. $25k (Canadian) for the new Sentra. Lots of hoopla. One of the guys finally spoke up and said,"Don't tell us, tell the customers!" We, the guys/gals on the front lines KNOW we have the best product out there. We don't need convincing. During lunch break, we swapped horror story after horror story about having to deal with the HOnda/Toyota humper who won't listen to any reasoning. Even the bad press lately that is hitting Toyota is not making a dent. Our store sold under 30 retail units last month. So I sent an information card to Oshawa, demanding to know why I, as a Chevrolet salesperson in Toronto, should not jump ship to Pontiac-Buick-GMC. Chevrolet is finished in the greater Toronto area, from where I sit. Yet another customer, who has leased 2 Malibus from me in the past 7 years, called me up the other day and she wants a convertible this time around. What's that, I asked, you don't want to pay $80k for a Corvette? Sorry, ma'am, that's the only convertible I have. Oh, what's that? You have already decided you want a G-6 convertible. Sure, I can send you to a Pontiac dealer to drive one and pray they don't try and sell it to you while you are over there. I am losing most of my Alero customers, enmasse. Some are going to Pontiac, but most are going to the imports. One woman who had an Alero GLS and is a buyer for CP rail in Canada was told by her superiors that she HAD to get a BMW or Audi this time around. I retorted that considering the business GM has done with HER company in the past, I found that rather outrageous that they are dictating what she can and cannot lease. The Sierra outsells the Silverado in Canada, folks. In Toronto, we sell Uplanders, Malibus, Impalas, Equinoxes, Aveo, Cobalts, and Optras. That's pretty much it. We have 3 Colorados on the lot; I was at a dealer in Guelph that had 30 of them. GM is doing the right thing in bringing the Opel product to North America; however, Saturn getting it is going to kill Chevrolet in the Toronto area, IMO. An Aveo against the Corsa? Do you know how many HHRs sold in Canada last year? 6,500. Wasn't it over 100k in the U.S.? The Pontiac dealers in Canada whined and fussed, so they got the Wave, the Pursuit and Torrent. They always had the Aztek and Rendezvous, for better or worse. I've seen the Malibu and it is great, but it won't be enough. With the G8 going to Pontiac first, then the RWD Impala, it will be yet another nail in the coffin for Chevrolet. Don't forget, folks, that Chevrolet is - in all reality, just another foreign name in our market. It doesn't have the "Heartbeat of America" panache that it does in the U.S.

Never been much of a drinker. Everyone's chemistry is different. Alcohol, for the most part, just makes me want to sleep. In my teens, I was an angel: never drank, never smoked, never tried weed - nada. Then, I watched a straight friend fall for a girl and get seduced by "acid." They seemed to love it. My boyfriend at the time had also used it occasionally, so I dropped a hit and never looked back. Through the '80s, I probably did LSD or "mushrooms" 50 or 60 times. Never liked pot - puts me to sleep or zones me out. I moved away from the big city for 11 years and my partying ceased as I concentrated on my company. After my family screwed me out of my company, I returned to the big city and (at the age of 35) became a couch potato. I ballooned to 205 lbs (I am 6;2" so it ain't as bad as it sounds) and literally sat around the house. Friends of mine rescued me one evening with a tiny pill that I later found out is ecstacy - appropriately named, I might add. As my social life accelerated, I would sometimes to coke or sometimes (at clubs) do E, depending on my mood. Yeah, I have seen friends go from a few lines a night to few hundred dollars worth a night, but I know myself and I know how to draw the line. Coke is probably the most underground drug of all. Millions of people use it - most of those people are professionals and educated, but it is like being gay was 25 years ago: you had to keep it to yourself because of the stigma or propaganda. IMO, alcohol is the worst. It makes people edgy and aggressive. Pot is probably a safer choice. Coke is too addictive and too easy to ingest, which makes it more insidious. Ecstacy is the best drug, bar none. If used moderately, the side effects are non existent and if done with friends you know and trust, can be a blast like no other. The only "negative" thing that I can see about ecstacy is that it takes 3-5 hours to "come down," which is not always convenient - but can make for some incredible sex sessions! FIRE AWAY.

The other tough question is why is GMNA treated so differently than the Rest of the World? Especially now that GM sells more vehicles OUTSIDE North America than it does inside! I hail from Brazil just now, and I have been all over this beautiful country (again). I see Chevrolets EVERYWHERE. No brand crisis here. No hip problems here. Chevrolet is #1 in Brazil, not GM. I´d bet nobody here even knows who GM is! Of course, nothing sold here is like anything sold in North America, except maybe the S-10 and the "Grand Blazer." I do, however, see a few Corollas and thinly disguised Camries. So far, CHEVROLET is winning the market war here, followed by (get ready for this), Fiat. I look at the Astra and think of the Malibu, then ask myself WHY??? Why does GMNA think we are so stupid? They can and do build great cars ELSEWHERE. They can and do market them well - ELSEWHERE. As GM sinks to sub 4 million sales in North America, and picks up slack elsewhere, a lot of rethinking will have to be done. As a lot of anti-GM members on this site have repeatedly pointed out, Toyota is not confused about its marketing and it is RELENTLESS. GM clearly cannot afford 8 brands any more, not when one or two brands are doing better outside GMNA!

....GEEZ, a guy goes away for a few weeks and the world goes to hell in a hand cart! FUTURE_OF_GM, I have greatly enjoyed your postings. In fact, you have been an inspiration: your passion, your determination. Stick around! (and I have noticed postings seem to be down, too!)

Since GM added the graphite interior for 2007, I have warmed to the Colorado much more. Clearly, GM strategizes market by market, but in this (Toronto) market, the Colorado leases out for damned near free. I am looking to finally get my own vehicle when I come back from holidays (I am in /brazil as I type this!) and when I priced out a loaded Vibe on a 4 year lease, versus a loaded 2WD Crew Cab Colorado on a 3 year lease, they were nearly the same payment! I would personally never buy a car/truck anyway. I would get bored of them too fast, and, for the most part, leasing avoids the harsh reality of resale. Up here, the 3 year residuals are over 50% on the Colorado. Combined with a 0.5% lease rate - well, that is impossible to touch. Suck that up, Toyota with 5.9%

As with all definitions, there needs to be certain qualifiers. I would not define a 20 year old a "loser" because they don't have their own home, drive a newer car and have a girlfriend/boyfriend. If someone is 40 and possesses all three of those qualities; well, would you call that person a winner? Bad things happen to good people, but as a species, our natural instinct is to improve ourselves. People who get bogged down in excuses, blame their background, blame their parents, blame their government, etc. are just hurting themselves.

I like Barrett-Jackson for the sheer entertainment value and because there are some interesting vehicles on it, but really - nothing like a bunch of fat, old white guys sitting around, looking self-important and artificially driving up the "value" of "collector" vehicles. Talk about "piling on" mentality. This is sort of the polar opposite of Springer: instead of a bunch of Loser white folks beating on each other, we have a bunch of rich white folks who want to see themselves on camera showing off their wallets. I cannot believe the prices for some of those vehicles. Ten years ago you couldn't have given away a hemi muscle car. Now, these silly fools are willing to pay a half million bucks for one! I love old cars and as much as I admire one's financial ability to spend $50 grand on a restoration, it's truly getting out of hand. There was a time when common folks could aspire to driving one of these babies, but now they will all be locked up in a museum somewhere because someone paid WAY too much money.

I can't defend Ford over the tire debacle, but was it ever established whose fault it really was? After all, Ford did not build the tires! The Chrysler thing was total BS and YOU know it. They had, like 9 incidents out of 2 million vehicles? It was quite the stretch, statistically. Accounting irregularities do not hurt the customer; just a bunch of fat cats in Wall Street, even though the practice should not be condoned. Honda and Toyota seem to come up on a regular basis as to "irregular" numbers. Toyota adding Scion sales to their own? NO problem. The '06 Camry dropped 20 hp, Sienna by 15, the Acura TL by 12: many, many of their models dropped by more than 10 hp. We are not talking the piddly numbers that Hyundai got SUED for. Toyota and Honda got away with it, plain and simple. The hag, Ellen Roseman, who writes for the Toronto Star, went crazy when Hyundai got caught - she demanded customers be rebating $1,000 or more for the "fib." Where was she and others when the $70k SC430 dropped 12 horsepower??????

Well said.

Still, Chevrolet sold a lot of those mid-sized vehicles and there are many people of prime car buying age who have fond memories of their childhood in the back seat of one of those mid-sizers. The same cannot be said of the later Citation. So, yes, GM did the right thing in resurrecting the Malibu name. I am going to save the FWD-RWD argument for another thread, but the 97-03 Malibu had its strengths. The mistake many pundits make, IMO, is taking a vehicle out of its time line and judging it by TODAY's standards. If you compare a '97 Malibu to a '97 Camry, the similarities are striking. Many of us never warmed to the appearance of the "second" generation Malibu. I believe its sales were somewhat dampened by the odd looking front end and less than exemplary materials inside - although, having driven them on and off for the last two or three years, I have to say that they are very well laid out and easy to live with! I sincerely hope that the next generation makes the leap to the forefront of the mid-size market. From what I have seen so far, I am cautiously optmistic. GM needs a winner in this all-important market. Something that will sell more than a quarter million units and not have to be fleeted. I have no illusions that the Malibu will outsell the Camry. Due to GM's adherence to too many brands, Toyota and HOnda's dominance in the "#1 selling" sweepstakes are guaranteed.

Just to build on Regfootballs' earlier point, I gather that selling vehicles in the States is a whore's game. First of all, there are no Canadian superstores. A big GM dealer in Canada will sell 125 new cars a MONTH. In the States, that would read a WEEK. Nobody has a clear advantage up here. Secondly, at least up in Canada, we see the monthly reports and the average selling "gross" across an entire "zone" will spread by maybe $100. There are a lot of myths about car buying. Again, I can only speak for Canada, but I know that Chrysler dealers sell closer to invoice because they do get "hold backs" and other such nonsense. GM is a little more above board with their dealers, which is why they have a better relationship with them. There are subtle ways that GM can slam a dealer who doesn't keep in line: no dealer will survive long by constantly and drastically undercutting their cousins. And if you think you are being clever by shopping around to 12 dealers for the same vehicle, and it takes you 3 months to get around to all those 12 dealers, newsflash: the programs and incentives probably changed, which is why the guy you bought from gave you such a great deal! The dealer is not the money man - it is the manufacturer. I can knock off $500, but GM can knock of $5,000, if it chooses! Price whores are just that: whores. I repeat: there is no magic in selling cars. It is just like any other business. If you buy a widget for $5, you hope to sell it for $6 and pay the rent. If a fire sale story turns out to be true, it probably was the vehicle with lot damage, or that sat on the lot for 18 months, or that was dealer traded 3 times. In my experience, most people who brag about the amazing deal they got are either outright lying, or sadly confused. I used to argue with people, now I just offer them $1,000 cash to prove the deal their buddy/cousin/butcher/dog's groomer got. Strangely, I never see those customers again to claim their $1,000. We are all human with human memories and agendas. I have kept a written journal for 30 years and I can tell you from experience that if you embellish a story to make it more interesting, eventually your memory will adjust and you will believe that is what happened. People who retell their favorite car stories are no different. Do you think someone is going to brag to you that they got hosed? Of course not. We all want to sound like we know what we are talking about and be important. I had a couple almost get divorced in front of me because the husband shrugged and said how great his Accord has been. His wife, who was considering leasing a Venture (and eventually did - behind his back!), challenged him and remarked that he always was bitching about how much every trip to the dealer was costing. Is he trying to be a big man in front of the greasy salesman, or is his memory selectively deleting bad news about his car because deep down he realized he paid too much and is continuing to pay too much? Find a dealer you like and work with them, not against them. By being fair and honest up front, you might be surprised at how well you are treated. If you are treated badly, then complain to the general manager. That guy shouldn't be working there!

It varies from model to model, but generally the best time is around Christmas or June/July. Better yet, build a relationship with a dealer ( like with a salesperson who has been there for a long time) and they will keep you up to pace on when the GM incentives are strong on the model you are looking for. Maybe even give you enough heads up to factory order exactly what you want. It also depends on whether you are financing or leasing. Leases are generally cheaper around Christmas, before the residuals drop in mid-winter. I always keep my customers up to date on loyalty programs, financing deals, etc. They can decide for themselves when the best time is or when they are ready.

......... a customer lie? NAH! Never happens. All you will do is piss off a rookie. The veterans can smell BS a mile away. Besides, there is no magic in this business, guys. For new cars, all dealers pay exactly the same thing for the same vehicle. As for used vehicles, in the case of GM dealers we all go to the same auctions and fight over the same "rentals." Our used car manager knows what dealers are paying for Malibus, Cobalts, whatever. I even laugh when we call a wholesaler to get a quote on a trade-in and the wholesaler snorts that he has already quoted on that vehicle from another dealer! So, you can huff and puff all you want. When someone tells me they can lease an Equinox for $50 a month (why is it always $50 and not $5?) less than what I quoted them, I tell them to run right over there and lease it. The only part that galls me is that I have to pretend that the other dealer is lying to them when, in fact, I know it is the customer lying to me. Nobody wins in this case, boys and girls.

Although Nissan and Mazda were generally faultless with respect to the overstated horsepower debacle last year, many of Toyota and Honda's products dropped SUBSTANTIALLY. And Hyundai was already sued for doing just that thing a few years back. Seems to be an epidemic in Asia. I wonder what gives. As to gas mileage numbers, small engines that need to rev very high to get any actual power tend to do well with the way the EPA/Energuide (Canada) do their testing numbers. I mean, who actually can drive the way they test their vehicles? I am sure Toyota/Honda know this and have worked their engines to show up well in these tests. I'd like to see a definitive study - by someone who doesn't have an axe to grinde, of real people driving real vehicles over a period of a year and see how significant the real world numbers drop is between domestic versus Asian name plates. I would bet the facts would be surprising, indeed.

It could be very, very close in 2007. GM could experience double digit growth in China again this year and double digits of the volumes that market now represents could offset any small drops in North America. Emphasis on SMALL drops in North America. If GM loses another 2 points of market share in the U.S. and Canada again - well, that would be the end of GM as #1 in world wide volume.

The funny thing about "sticker" price is that it is supposed to be there so the dealer can make money. Typically, a 6-9% spread over "cost." That was all and fine when GM had 40%+ market share and a relatively stable market that existed, say, 25 years ago. The trouble now is that dealers are cutting each other's throats as the market share slides. It makes me chuckle when I have a customer say that it is quite reasonable for a dealer to make $600 on a $25,000 vehicle. Do they know what the mark up on food, clothing and furniture is? It strikes me as odd that people will fight and scream to save $100 on a car deal, then walk into some fancy grocery store and pay $25 too much on a $100 order of groceries. I, on the other hand, don't gnash and grind a salesperson when I am buying a high ticket item, because I realize that over the course of that item's use, the hundred dollars won't matter much; however, I will walk out of a grocery store when I see that I am getting ripped off. At the end of a year, the groceries will add up to a lot more than the hundred or so bucks I saved on the high ticket item.