CARBIZ

Okay, so the Aveo, which is a 5 year old design passed with flying colors the NHTSA test and now you are saying that because the Yaris (two years old), Fit (one year), and Versa (one year) all passed the newer and more acceptable (to you) crash tests, the Aveo is somehow deficient. First of all, I don't know of anyone who drives into a brick wall, either offset or head on, so the tests are all (at best) only indicative of what may happen in a given crash anyway. Furthermore, like the EPA ratings and all other tests, they are only supposed to show how vehicles perform under the SAME circumstances. Real world conditions will vastly vary. Personally, I believe that crash tests on very small cars are totally pointless, because as any grade 12 physics teacher will tell you, if a Fit and a Tahoe hit head on, I don't care how many air bags or stars you have, you had better have LUCKY stars to walk out of that crash!

The interior plastics are too hard. There needs to be more color on the inside. I'd suggest a rainbow sash across the dash. It better come with a 18 speed automatic or I wouldn't buy one. Can't they fit bigger wheels in those wells? There's no "T" on the hood. It's gotta be crap.

It's good to see Ford getting back into the car game again. This definitely ups the stakes for the Cobalt, which I hope is due for a refresh (at least) in '08. It would be nice to see the old Chevrolet-Ford rivalry resurrected and let them both forget the Japanese invaders for a while. I know Ford is capable of building decent small cars - they build them elsewhere now. This Focus looks very good and is a HUGE improvement over the current one. Quirky looks are gone.

The Aveo 5 door is supposed to get a re-do for '08. How much better of a crash rating than 5 star frontal is the Aveo supposed to get? There is no 6 star! For a little car, the engineering is quite good, actually. Fit and finish, rattles and shakes, wind noise - all of those are quite good. Most people that I've dealt with who drive it are quite surprised. I would hope GM plans to rehash the engine to squeak out either more power for the same gas mileage, or better gas mileage for the same power. I don't care which.

Actually, the chart from Detroit News would indicate that for the past two years, both Toyota and GM are tracking about the same number of recalls, as a proportion of vehicles sold in those given years. GM still sells more than double the number of vehicles in North America, so it would naturally expect to have about double the number of recalls and still be on par. However, and I will defer to those experts here with more time on their hands than I, at first glance I would surmise that GM is still the hands down winner if one factors in number of vehicles on the road. Since Toyota's market share advances are recent, I would imagine GM still has three or four times the number of vehicles actually on the road, compared to Toyota, and I am sure the recalls indicated are for more than vehicles simply sold in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Of course, CR and others would just regurgitate the chart as is, without any explanation as to the severity of each recall (such as tailgate cable problems versus front wheels falling off SUVs, for example), or breaking it down as a proportion of vehicles on the road, etc.

I've never tried snorting Nyquil, maybe that works better? I took Nyquil once. At first it had no effect, then I did some more. I ended up drinking about 1/3 of the bottle. Then I was so high, I couldn't sleep at all and just lay in bed, buzzing like crazy, trying not to wake up my boyfriend who WAS actually sleeping.

People who buy Toyotas are not douchebags; they just don't know any better. They are sheeple who believe every printed word of the media and can't think for themselves. I don't mind losing sales to Mazda or Honda, because at least they try to build market leading and innovative products. Toyota used to be like that, but since they've discovered the magic formula of appealing to the masses, they don't care any more. Toyota can pad its sales, lie about horsepower numbers and get away with it. Good for them. WE deserve it.

Global warming? What's that? It is 52 degrees here and all the ski resorts just closed, laying off thousands of people - and that is the first time I can ever remember them doing that. With their snow making equipment, they can make snow up to 40 degrees, but this past month has been too much. I am of two minds about this debate; however, any clown can understand that 6 billion people must have some impact on the global weather. Heck, large urban areas like New York, LA and Toronto actually effect the weather around them. What drives me crazy is that while we in the West blame ourselves and bend over backwards to ban automobiles, pesticides, etc., the "emerging markets" and Third World proceed to pollute and rape the environment with impunity. Nothing we do in North America will mean anything unless China and India (and countries like Mexico and Brazil) don't get their populaton growth under control. Funny as it sounds, just those 3 billion people's exhaling and defacating has a significant impact on the world climate.

With the 5 spd, the Aveo is actually a fairly decent car. Yes, it does have a bit of oomph, too. I am 6'2" and have no problem sitting in the back seat. I prefer the 5 - door, but with the recent re-do of the sedan, the interior is far better in the sedan. I have no idea why they woudn't make over the 5 door first - we sell far more of those than sedans! It's interesting to note that th usual suspects acclaim the Yaris for being such a great car, but this is Toyota's 3rd kick at the small car can in North America. First, the Tercel, which was a decent car, then the Echo which had a crappy back seat and anemic performance, and now the Yaris, which is a decent car but still a little quirky looking. GM-DAT has done a far better job straight out of the gate with the Aveo. I would prefer to see a better automatic (maybe a GM one?) and a touch more power, but over all this car is decent. Now, if only GM would stop badge engineering this and whoring it out to Suzuki and Pontiac, we might have something that sells, too.

I have not read a single article in the past 18 months that has not mentioned, at one point or the other, that Toyota will overtake GM. In fact, the bleeding heart Toronto Star has even gone as far to say Toyota is the "biggest auto manufacturer by market capitalization" because Toyota has not been overtaking fast enough for them, I guess! But didn't the usual suspects predict Toyota would overtake GM in 2006? I guess now they've moved the goal posts to 2007. Soon it will be 2008. Must be a big disappointment for them, the poor dears. I am not at all concerned about this, at least not as much as I was a year ago. I don't think GM will be overtaken, not with her successes in China and South America, as long as GM can stop the freefall in North AMerica.

It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall during the executive meetings that spoke about dumping Olds and propping up Saturn. In the great scheme of things, I am not sure dropping Olds made a big difference. Speaking from personal experience at a former Chevrolet-Oldsmobile store (as were all GM stores in Canada), I have lots quite a few customers who have defected to the imports because their Alero/Aurora/Intrigue lease came up and we have nothing to sell them. Some may have considered Buick, but most went to BMW, Toyota. I don't see Saturn ever having a respectable name, but that is my opinion. If GM had gotten religion with respect to interior materials and fit/finish with the Intrigue in '97 that car could have saved Oldsmobile; however, as was normal at the time, the bean counters saddled the car with crappy fit and finish and only managed to capture die hard GM types, not be the import magnet that it needed to be.

[sHRUGS] It isn't my mind being made up that is important, it is encouraging people to drive the Cobalt with an open mind. When the customer drives over the same stretch of road with both vehicles, back to back, the deficiencies of the Corolla are striking. Younger people almost universally remark on the lack of power in the Corolla (again, as with many Japanese cars, the engine is designed with manual transmissions in mind) and older people wonder why the car is pitching and shaking so much. This has proven to be the most effect sales tool I know.

Sorry, but I drive them every day and I vehemently disagree. There is one stretch of road nearby that is full of frost heaves and potholes (a lot of truck traffic) and I make sure my customers drive over that stretch so they can see how solid the new vehicles handle. I wait for the customers to remark on why is the Corolla rattling so much? There is literal cowl shake in the frame. The 2007 is better than previous years, but it is noticeable. The Corolla is probably a great car for my great aunt, but for anybody else, especially some young buck who thinks he is Mario Andretti, they will be sorely disappointed by the Corolla. The LS and LT Cobalts are no rockets, but they do feel solid and well put together. The SS with the 2.4 is more respectable in terms of 0-60 times and quarter miles, but that is only important to a much smaller segment of small car buyers. This is where figures lie. If you DRIVE the Cobalt and the Corolla (apples to apples) back to back, the Cobalt FEELS the more solid and put together. I am convinced that Toyota puts their cars together so they show up well in the C&D/MT tests, but in the real world, that is a different matter.

I'm all for safety and traffic laws, but where will this all end? We get bamboozled by very big numbers every day. Yes, there are thousands of traffic fatalities every year in North America and, yes, many of those are alcohol related, but the safety nazis are going to railroad all of us into walking to work every day because ANYTHING else is inherently less safe. Getting out of bed in the morning is unsafe. The next idiot driving up over the hill could be drunk, could be on the cellphone, could be slapping his bratty kids in the back seat, could be arguing with his girlfriend - who knows! The possibilities are endless, yet the safety nazis have their own agenda (didn't MADD just have a huge flap over their organizers sucking the pot dry for their own paycheques?) and they won't stop until the speed limit is 10 mph, you can only drive during the day, you need to wear a helmet in your car with a 9 point shoulder harness, 25 air bags - oh, and don't forget to pay your carbon credits!

Look, there was a time when a car was an engine and 4 wheels, not much else. When my father factory ordered his '69 Chrysler 300, he loaded up on performance goodies (HD battery, TNT pkg, etc.) and the only "luxuries" he paid for was the FM radio (didn't even want "multi-plex") and a rear speaker. No a/c, no power windows, nothing. The car came with front discs (new technology then) and it had radial tires, something he was insistent upon. Having grown up with manual shift vehicles, he loved the Chrysler automatic. My father was pretty up with all the latest gadgets and tech features on cars back then and he was a die-hard Chrysler man because he believed that Chrysler was the best in engineering available at the time. Today, I see 18 year olds who believe it is their divine right to have a car with keyless remote, power everything, a/c and they will expect all of that in the cheapest car possible. Times have changed. Even in the 9 years I have been selling cars, I have seen sales of vehicles without toys (Cavalier, base Malibu a few years back) tumble while sales of more equipped vehicles take off. A lot of newer technologies are poorly understood by sales people and are not properly explained. I've had people dismiss Stablilitrak out of hand - even after they've just said they need AWD because it is "safer." Look at the Intigue: GM made a valiant attempt at making Stabilitrak all but standard on that car and yet it did nothing to help sales. Locking differential is another item that people don't understand - if they did Ford and Dodge wouldn't sell a single truck. There are a lot of stupid people out there and there are a lot of people who are just overwhelmed with technology, which is why I laugh at iDrive and other high end luxury cars. I am willing to bet that 90% of the people that buy those vehicles don't have a clue how to use them! I consider myself to be technically inclined, but three months ago when I bought a 42" plasma TV and a Yamaha surround system it took me two weeks to get everything straightened out. I literally had about 8 manuals to read (even one for the sub woofer!) and at one point, I threw them on the coffee table in despair! I used to sell VCRs and TVs for a living! (Mind, that was 20 years ago.) I applaud GM for OnStar, for trying to make safety simple and relevent. I sit in a BMW or Mercedes and just shake my head. The Space Shuttle would be easier to figure out.

I gotta hand it to Chrysler. With each generation of their vans, they have always managed to keep one step ahead of the pack. I don't know how they have managed it for over 20 years now. Seriously. They have out-cupholdered, out-doored (4 doors when everyone else had 3) and out-maneuvered everyone else for decades in what has proven to be a significant market, and one that I believe will become more important in the future, being as gas prices are NOT going to stay low. They even managed to survive the exploding transmissions of 5 years ago and still kept #1 in sales. I know most of you guys hate minivans, but this van is fresh and is a nice transition from their current offerings. I was getting a little sick of the Dodge grille starting to take over the entire front of the vehicles. Of course price drives this particular market, but these are nicely styled. I hope GM has something we don't know about waiting in the wings.

I just saw that Imperial on Fantastic Voyage. I love watching those old movies for the cars, although I suspect many others would watch that movie to see Raquel strip off her wetsuit. LOL. I would take the Chrysler. I've always had a soft spot for the Chrysler flagship. I would kill for a '68 convertible. The Buick is a clean design. Very nice.

I think it is safe to say that anybody who replied to this thread yesterday did NOT have a lot to drink. Some of us slept (or tried to sleep!) most of the day.

That's why I live downtown: I can stagger to all the clubs/bars that I want and not have to pay for a cab. It's raining pretty hard now, so perhaps we (the boyfriend) and I will just camp out (no pun intended) at one the bigger clubs (anyone watch Queer as Folk, the club scenes were shot at Fly, here in Toronto) and stay put until 5 or 6 in the morning. Cheers!

My friends on the West Coast just sent me a Xmas card (email) of the destroyed trees on their property and the 2 feet of snow they got. Meanwhile, it is supposed to be 8 degrees (49, for those of you south of the border) tomorrow here! We've had no snow to speak of this winter so far, and we are supposed to be in the Great White North. NOT! Collingwood (my former home town) just opened its ski resorts this week, missing much of the Xmas break, which is so important to that community. That is Ontario's largest ski resort and even with the millions they've spent on new snow making equipment (and they have the Great Lakes to drain for it, too!) they just couldn't open until now. Yikes.

It just seems that with CR yanking in one way (buy the Lexus, it is better quality) and C&D pulling the other (of course a BMW is what you should buy, don't we all need to go sideways on a skid pag pulling 1 G?), the luxury and near luxury buyer just gets caught up in the cross fire. If I had $60 grand to spend, I'd rather go to Barrett Jackson than buy ANYTHING on the market today in that price bracket; otherwise, I want a good stereo, a solid ride, I don't want to get raped when I need servicing and I want a car that looks good (whatever that means!) I understand that GM screwed up royally in the late '80s with those totally CRAP Cadillacs they threw together, but that was 15 years ago already!

Two reasons the Epica died: it came out the same time as the Malibu and it was under powered. Personally, I liked it better than the Malibu and it was cheaper. The fit and finish, quality of plastics (which really float some people's boats here) was superior, too. The ride and handling were quite nice, but foot to the floor there was nothing. One of the guys at GM said GM screwed up and should have given it to Buick. True. Anyone coming out of a Cutlass or Century would have liked this car. Oh, and it didn't help that Suzuki (!!??) was selling the same damned car. Take that, resale value!

The Camaro may sell okay south of the border, but the old one only sold, what, 2k units up here anyway. I doubt our dealership will even stock any. We just auctioned off 3 2004 (brand new) Monte Carlos because we couldn't give them away. We took a $15k hit on each one to dump them. I hope GM has better plans for that plant, because maybe in the first year they will sell a few Camaros, but that will be it. Just look to the SSR. Three years too late and way too much money.

I haven't started many threads here, although I've been lurking around for 18 months or so. But something happened two days ago that I have been stewing about since. I have been selling Chevrolet for 9 years. Shortly after I started at the store I am at now, we got a new (to us) New Car Manager. This man was nearing retirement age and had been in the buisness, started as a mechanic, then in sales at a Cadillac store, for 30 years. He emigrated from Scotland with nothing and by the time of his death about 2 years ago was worth a few milliion, to be sure. This sales manager was with us for about 5 years and was the best manager I have ever met. He was honest, hard working and had zero tolerance for BS - a rarity in the car business, indeed! Anyway, the point to this thread is that his beautiful and elegant widow just came by Friday and dropped off their leased Alero GLS. It only has 22k (km) on it, is in great shape, etc. She was escorted by her 35 year old son, who showed up in his BMW 5 series, and then he was taking her over to the BMW dealership to pick up her new, factory ordered BMW 3 series. I knew this was coming. I have been in touch with her and knew that she was looking to buy a BMW. I knew there was no point in arguing with her - she well knew my thoughts about sending $50k over seas, but the more I stew about this, the angrier I get. General Motors put them where they are today. Her son's gold-plated education (he is now a top executive at one of the major banks in Canada) was paid for by his dad's hard work selling P-B-C for 20 some-odd years, yet he now owns (his 3rd, I hear) BMW. I realize his generation is lost in snobbery, but I am surprised that this 60 year old (but very active) woman did not even consider a Buick or Cadillac. I mean, seriously: the ride and handling of the 3 series can best be described as harsh. Why would a 60 year old woman want that? Why would she not rather appreciate the smooth, quiet ride of a Buick? It wasn't even considered because her son's snobbishness pushed her into it. As I took the plates off her Alero, I couldn't help but remark that her (gorgeous) purple coat was matched by (equally gorgeous) purple leather gloves. (Okay, I am gay and that was a gay thing to notice, but she did look very smart!) She looked down at her gloves and sniffed that they were nothing, she had just found them in Italy. Now, normally I would have thought, "okay, you rich bitch, you are just bragging now," but I know this woman and she is very classy, so I am sure she didn't mean to brag. It is just a statement of fact: she bought her gloves in Italy. Imported is better, right? So, I sit here on my Sunday morning, drinking my coffee and try to be optimistic about the future, but it is getting harder and harder. If General Motors has lost the good people whose fortunes were made on backs of the company, then there is no hope left. I live on the edge of the richest neighborhood in Canada (Rosedale) and I can tell you, 80% of the cars in their driveways are German or Japanese. The truly sad part is, the treed streets are just a see of gunmetal grey BMWs! When did we, as nations, lose the ability to think for ourselves? When did the almighty grip of the "enthusiasts" become so tyrannical that 60 year old women, who would never see the high side of 50 mph, are bound to buy an imported car, simply because her neighbors have one? I am 45 years old. I grew up, covetting Imperials and Cadillacs. I am fairly hip and follow most trends, but I cannot see the point to spending (too much) money on a car that was designed on a skid pad when for several thousands less I can buy a much nicer car with a domestic name on it. I guess these are the same people who will spend $5k on a Rolex when a $75 Timex will do.

Same here, but I can best that: my home computer seems to block most of the pictures on C & G: I get lots of these cute little boxes with an "X" in them, instead of icons and graphics. My work computer is fine.