Drew Dowdell

$39,525 + less tax credit = me buying a Volt instead

and the Aztek was actually pretty ok off road too

Toyota Introduces 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid Extended Electric Range Selectable EV Mode Expected 87 MPGe Quick Home Charging Plug-in Hybrid Base - $32,000 Plug-in Hybrid Advance - $39m525 Both Qualify for $2,500 federal tax credit Joining the popular third-generation Prius Liftback and the new Prius v, the new Prius Plug-in combines the benefits of the standard Prius model's hybrid vehicle operation with extended electric vehicle (EV) driving and more affordable pricing than pure electric or range-extender type vehicles. The 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid, which offers seating for five, is expected to achieve a manufacturer-estimated 87 MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) in combined driving and 49 MPG in hybrid mode. Toyota has sold more than one million Prius models in the United States since the first-generation model was introduced for model-year 2001. The recent introduction of the larger Prius v and now the Prius Plug-in Hybrid brings this eco-focused model range to four distinct vehicles, including the Prius c, which will debut in 2012. The 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid will allow true EV operation and performance for up to 15 miles at speeds up to 62 mph, along with quick home charging using a standard AC outlet and 15-amp dedicated circuit. Operating in EV mode, the Prius Plug-in Hybrid provides the quick, smooth quiet driving of a pure electric vehicle. The Prius Plug-in Hybrid offers the same five-passenger seating and luggage space as the standard Prius model. The 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid retains the Hybrid Synergy Drive of the standard Prius model and will seamlessly switch into hybrid operation at a pre-determined state of battery charge. A newly developed 4.4 kWh lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery pack replaces the standard Prius model's nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery and fits under the rear cargo floor, and the vehicle adds an easy-to-use external charging cable. A full charge using an external AC outlet takes approximately 2.5 to 3.0 hours using a 120v household outlet or 1.5 hours using a 240v outlet. The included 120v charging cable connects to the charging port inlet located on the right-rear fender. In addition to offering Entune™, Toyota's new multimedia system, available smartphone applications developed for the Prius Plug-in Hybrid include Charge Management, Remote Air Conditioning System, Charging Station Map, Vehicle Finder and Eco Dashboard. Introduction of the 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid follows an extensive test-fleet program involving 125 early prototypes in the United States. Toyota applied experience from that test phase, along with input from participants, to finalize engineering and improve features for the production model. Performance and EconomyEven with the addition of the new onboard battery charging system and larger 176-lb. Li-ion battery pack, the 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid weighs just 123 lbs. more than the standard Prius Liftback, thanks to weight-savings techniques applied elsewhere. As a result, driving performance for the 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid will be similar to the standard Prius. Running in EV mode, the system switches to full hybrid mode under full acceleration, which splits engine power between the drive wheels and the generator, keeping the battery charged – just as in the standard Prius model. Even when not running in the driver-selectable EV mode, the Prius Plug-in Hybrid will rely more on its electric-only capability in situations where it is more efficient than running the gasoline engine, especially in urban and suburban driving and during shorter trips when drivers will enjoy the smoothness and quiet of EV operation. The overall fuel economy rating for the Prius Plug-in Hybrid increases to a manufacturer-expected 87 MPGe, with the car achieving an estimated 49 MPG when operating in hybrid mode. Drivers who use the vehicle for frequent short trips and local driving will realize the biggest reduction in gasoline usage. EV and Hybrid OperationThe Prius Plug-in operates much the same way as the standard Prius model while offering extended EV range and plug-in charging. Current Prius owners will feel instantly familiar with the new model while enjoying more benefits of EV driving. The Plug-in Hybrid system consists of a large-capacity Li-ion battery and an external battery-charging port connected to the standard Prius Hybrid Synergy Drive system. Toyota developed the new compact, lightweight, high-output battery specifically for the Prius Plug-in Hybrid. The 4.4 kWh battery pack includes a battery charger located under battery that features an internal cooling fan. The hybrid system's inverter and has been optimized for the new, higher-capacity battery. In addition, the hybrid cooling system uses a larger heat exchanger and higher-capacity fan motor. As in the standard Prius Hybrid model, the Prius Plug-in Hybrid shuts down the gasoline engine at a stop and accelerates away with the hybrid battery providing electricity to the front motor; the Prius Plug-in Hybrid can rely on battery power alone for longer distances and higher speeds than the standard Prius. It features a new battery state-of-charge gauge, and a standard multi-information display panel monitors fuel and energy consumption to help encourage economical driving habits. New multi-information display additions have been included in the Prius Plug-in. A new EV Drive Ratio display records the ratio of driving distance covered by EV power, and the Hybrid System Indicator shows possible EV driving range when in EV mode. An Eco Savings Record screen, new to both the 2012 updated Prius and the Prius Plug-in, allows drivers to measure their savings over a customizable pre-set comparison vehicle. The pre-set areas include fuel cost for a gallon of gas and miles-per-gallon average. Charging the Prius Plug-in HybridThe external charging system is designed to be easy and safe to use. Approximately 24 feet in length, the battery charger cable weighs just 3.75 lbs. and conveniently fits its own compartment in the trunk area. The port is located behind a spring-loaded push-open door on the right-rear fender. A full charge using an external AC outlet takes approximately 2.5-3.0 hours using a 120V household outlet with a dedicated 15-amp circuit, or 1.5 hours using a 240V outlet. The charge port provides LED (Light Emitting Diode) illumination for convenient nighttime charging. A timer allows charging to take place during off-peak hours and can be set for both start and end times. In the event of a malfunction, the CCID (Charging Circuit Interrupter Device) in the cable will stop the flow of electricity for safety, and the indicator lamp will flash. There is also a self-test button, similar to that used on household kitchen and bathroom electrical outlets. A special rubber stopper prevents the charging port door from snapping shut when closing. <table style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1.4em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; " border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="97%"><tbody style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">Vehicle/Model Number</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Grade</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">Doors</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Body Style</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">Trans</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">2012 MSRP</td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">Prius v</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%"> </td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">1243</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Two</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">5</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Mid-size</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">ECVT</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">$26,400</td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">1245</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Three</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">5</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Mid-size</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">ECVT</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">$27,165</td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">1249</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Five</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">5</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Mid-size</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">ECVT</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">$29,990</td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">Prius Plug-in</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%"> </td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%"> </td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">1235</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Plug-in</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">5</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Mid-size</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">ECVT</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">$32,000</td></tr><tr style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="18%">1239</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="24%">Plug-in Advanced</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="12%">5</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="20%">Mid-size</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="10%">ECVT</td><td style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: normal; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; text-align: left; " valign="top" width="14%">$39,525</td></tr></tbody></table>

LULZ! That's why there is the saying "Never own a BMW that isn't under warranty!". Ask Nick about his 5-series..... VW's are atrocious with all kinda interior bits falling off. My ex's Passat had a smooth engine that ran well... but the rest of the car fell apart around it. I think the key to happiness w/ BMWs or other German cars is the 3 yr lease. Drive it a few years then get another one. That's what friends of mine do that have BMWs and Benzes. That way you never have to deal w/ expensive out-of-warranty issues. So even if Cadillac builds to a more durable standard (and I submit that they already do), it still won't matter.

I'm debating whether or not to unload the car now, or wait until spring, which would give me all of next summer to find something. I'm not too keen on using the truck as a DD in the winter. I'd wait then. Is it paid off?

LULZ! That's why there is the saying "Never own a BMW that isn't under warranty!". Ask Nick about his 5-series..... VW's are atrocious with all kinda interior bits falling off. My ex's Passat had a smooth engine that ran well... but the rest of the car fell apart around it.

this.

how much longer can you hold out?

I see next gen Nissan Z more than anything else

There is really not much price differential between KIA and Hyundai. $200 here and there isn't a meaningful amount.

easier to grow a small platform than to shrink a large one.

let them try the coupe here first, it's an easier sell to Americans than a wagon.

The last time I saw Bob Lutz, he looked rather frail.

I wish these could be more mainstream price.

Great base price

That Mercedes engine was also much newer.

Well the instant may have been right for your downhill test. Modern fuel injected cars shut the fuel off down to a tiny trickle when the car is in such a state.

Eldorado was FWD for most of the nameplate's life, just saying....

'79 Custom Cruiser + '80 Ninety Eight + 80s Seville + 80s Eldorado

Wow! Someone got a raise this year!

I think we need to stop and ask ourselves what Cadillac's mission in this segment will be. Will a Cadillac flagship be competing with a Porsche Whalamera? Maserati anything? Aston Martin? I think the answer there is a quite firm "NO". I envision the Cadillac as being a 7-series or S-Class competitor but with a distinctly American flare and warmer interior visually. It should of course have sufficient power for the price, but having an outrageous engine note would actually be a detractor. The best way I can describe my idea is an "American Rolls Royce at an obtainable price". Leave the baddassery to the V-series. If the purchaser of this Cadillac needs to get there in a hurry, they call for their helicopter. The only thing that held the 3900 back was the 4-speed auto it was always paired with. I would really be interested in driving a G6 with the 3900 and a manual.

Upload the pics to the Garage here.

Oh right, because I just read how Maserati is dropping the Ferrari engine from the Quattroporte in favor of a 6.0 liter V8 from a Chevy Silverado. You know what would be just HE-LAR-E-US!? If Maserati dropped the Ferrari engine from the Quattroporte in favor of the 6.3 Hemi from the 300C-SRT8. It would be an upgrade in both power (+25hp and +100 lb-ft) and fuel economy, but it would also be less expensive for them to repair under warranty when it breaks down. It would also make parent company Fiat happy to be getting more ROI out of the 6.3. But it wouldn't make orgasmic noises any more: A high-revving, multi-valve V8 is the whole point of a Maserati, not a torquey and grumbly muscle car engine--not that there's anything wrong with that. It just doesn't fit the character of an Italian supercar. Exactly right and which is exactly true in opposite for Cadillac. Cadillac, in non-V models, is all about the silent woosh of torque. That said, there doesn't have to be anything grumbly about a pushrod V8, that is just exhaust tuning and nothing more.

VVT is from like 10 years ago, and DI was on 2006 model year cars. Everyone else already has that in the segment, Cadillac arriving in 2015 with it isn't going to give them any advantage whatsoever. And there is a reason to make a unique power plant, so that your $80-100,000 Cadillac doesn't have the same engine as a $30,000 Camaro or Silverado. Cadillac hasn't had success selling a high end car in over 50 years. They have to do something to attract buyers. Pushrod V8s are already more than competitive (as in completely out performing) over DOHC engines. The CTS-V V8 out powers the BMW V10 by a LOT and the BMW 550i isn't even close in power. DI and VVT being added to the 5.5 will put it even further in front of the pack. The very last thing Cadillac needs to do to attract buyers is blend into the crowd. Just "doing what everyone else is doing" won't work because then.... why buy a Cadillac? Cadillac must be both unique and true to itself. There is a lot more to an engine than how the valves are actuated, as long as Cadillac's engine can continue to outperform the imports, that won't be the thing that holds Cadillac back.

Oh right, because I just read how Maserati is dropping the Ferrari engine from the Quattroporte in favor of a 6.0 liter V8 from a Chevy Silverado. You know what would be just HE-LAR-E-US!? If Maserati dropped the Ferrari engine from the Quattroporte in favor of the 6.3 Hemi from the 300C-SRT8. It would be an upgrade in both power (+25hp and +100 lb-ft) and fuel economy, but it would also be less expensive for them to repair under warranty when it breaks down. It would also make parent company Fiat happy to be getting more ROI out of the 6.3.