• Sign in to follow this  
    Followers 0

    BMW M Exec: Not So Bright Future For Manuals, Horsepower Limit


    • Comments from BMW's M Boss Gives Some Ideas As To What the Future Holds

    It seems some changes are coming to BMW's M division based on recent comments from the head of the division, Frank van Meel.

     

    First up is transmissions. van Meel tells Autocar that DCT dual-clutch and automatic transmissions have a bright future for M cars. Not so much for the manual transmission as sales are declining.

     

    “From a technical standpoint, the future doesn’t look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT and auto ’boxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption. It’s difficult to say we’ll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have,” said van Meel.

     

    van Meel also brought up maximum power, saying that M cars will only go up to 600 horsepower.

     

    “For now, 600bhp is the most you can get in an M car. We’re at the limit. If you go on adding more horsepower and torque, it’d probably be over the limits.”

     

    Source: Autocar

    0


    Sign in to follow this  
    Followers 0


    User Feedback


    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

    1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Usually as horsepower goes up in a car, weight goes up also.  Because they have to stiffen the chassis, bigger suspension, bigger brakes, etc.  And at some point you hit a limit of how much power you can put in a sedan and use it.  There are 500 hp cars that beat the Charger Hellcat 0-60 and a lot of cars that beat it in the corners. 

     

    Mercedes has had a 600 hp car over 10 years.  Audi doesn't need a 600 hp car because they have Lamborghini and Bugatti to take care of that crowd.

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

     

    I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

     

    The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

     

    I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

     

    The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

     

     

    I'm not sure what manuals have to do with anything. Like I said, BMW offers manuals in more of it's vehicles than just about anyone.

     

    Also, 700hp in an M5/M6 is just a tune away. What's your point?

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

    Whew..I thought I was the only one who was going to feel this way.  Just improve on Power:Weight and it is just as good, if not even more effective because it helps around corners as well.

     

    Realistically..what 1% of us could even exract a full 500hp out of a car..let alone north of 600hp. This is one reason I love the GT350/R and Z/28 so much. Both of them could have went to huge power numbers like the GT500 or ZL1(to a slightly lesser extent) but they didn't. Extracting a full 500-550hp out of a large pony car is about all you can realistically ask for. More than that and the power won't be put to the ground efectively..look GT500 and Hellcat or even the exotic SLS AMG(not Black Series).

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Maybe 8 and 10 speed automatics, especially with rapid paddle shifters, is hard to beat with 6 speed manuals. I can't imagine anyone wanting 8 and 10 speed manuals  :breakdance:

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

     

    I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

     

    The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

     

    I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight problem.

    Edited by smk4565
    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

     

    I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

     

    The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

     

    I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight probleI 

     

     

    I don't know, if either the Miata or M5 had a sophisticated and rapid paddle shifter on the wheel, quick-servo banging through 8 gears, that would be quite impressive.

    Edited by Wings4Life
    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    We are all talking about 500/600/700 horsepower like its nothing...

     

    SMK talked about an E39 M5 making 400 @ 3900 lbs...that right there...is practically my dream horsepower maximum with weight...

     

    I would be totally satisfied with a car the size of an E39 Bimmer,,,maybe a tad bigger...with weight around 3600 lbs...and MAXIMUM horsepower @400 with and equal amount of torques...@ 400 ft/lbs...

     

    No need to go more than that.

    Potholes where I live and ice and snow...actually...250 horsepower is too much...

    Streets are crowded with pedestrians, fellow drivers and law enforcement...250 horsepower is good enough to fully enjoy a car's "limits" on public streets. 

     

    500/600/700 horsepower on daily driven cars on public roads is just....overkill.  Fun...but overkill.

     

    Maybe my 42 years of age is finally starting to show some maturity and some calmness...but that is how I feel.

     

    Besides...like SMK said...more power does add more weight to a car...bigger this and stronger that is required to safely handle more power. Above a certain weight....it defeats the purpose...of being a perfectly balanced car...

    A perfectly balanced car...well...it has to be balanced all around.

    1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites


    Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

    Guest
    You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
    Add a comment...

    ×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

      Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor




  • Popular Stories

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Bandit '79
      Bandit '79
      (44 years old)
    2. Ur_pimp
      Ur_pimp
      (27 years old)
  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      For the past few years, luxury automakers have been trying to fill every single niche they could think of. It's why we have such models as the BMW 5-Series GT and Mercedes-Benz GLC-Coupe for example. But now, BMW and Mercedes-Benz admit they have too many models and are planning to cut some.
      “The checkerboard of body styles and segments is rather full, although there are still a few to be finished. We’ve got an X2 and an X7 coming, and there are a few others, but I also know—because we’ve taken decisions—that some body styles will be removed in the future,” said Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales and marketing, to Car and Driver.
      “There’s definitely more of a move toward four-door coupes. We’ve done the Gran Coupes; they’ve really worked. People like the lower seating position and the sporty dynamics but also the fact there’s a door in the back. It’s fair to say that when we look at the checkerboard, because of the new things we’re putting in, there are some things we can take out,” Robertson went on to say.
      Dieter Zetsche, head of Mercedes-Benz cars harbors the same thoughts.
      “The specialty cars, these coupes and convertibles, were always niche cars. The expansion into China and other emerging markets [has given] huge opportunities for sedans, but they did not take up these specialty cars. Which makes the business case for these vehicles less easy.”
      Yep, it seems coupes and convertibles are on the chopping block - not the SUV-coupe things you were likely hoping for. Now Zetsche did say that would still offer two-door models, but it would not be “in the variety we are having them right now.” Taking into consideration there are coupe and convertible versions of the C, E, and S-Class, along with the SLK and SL roadsters, and the AMG GT coupe and convertible, we wouldn't be shocked if a couple of those models disappear.
      Source: Car and Driver
    • By William Maley
      For the past few years, luxury automakers have been trying to fill every single niche they could think of. It's why we have such models as the BMW 5-Series GT and Mercedes-Benz GLC-Coupe for example. But now, BMW and Mercedes-Benz admit they have too many models and are planning to cut some.
      “The checkerboard of body styles and segments is rather full, although there are still a few to be finished. We’ve got an X2 and an X7 coming, and there are a few others, but I also know—because we’ve taken decisions—that some body styles will be removed in the future,” said Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales and marketing, to Car and Driver.
      “There’s definitely more of a move toward four-door coupes. We’ve done the Gran Coupes; they’ve really worked. People like the lower seating position and the sporty dynamics but also the fact there’s a door in the back. It’s fair to say that when we look at the checkerboard, because of the new things we’re putting in, there are some things we can take out,” Robertson went on to say.
      Dieter Zetsche, head of Mercedes-Benz cars harbors the same thoughts.
      “The specialty cars, these coupes and convertibles, were always niche cars. The expansion into China and other emerging markets [has given] huge opportunities for sedans, but they did not take up these specialty cars. Which makes the business case for these vehicles less easy.”
      Yep, it seems coupes and convertibles are on the chopping block - not the SUV-coupe things you were likely hoping for. Now Zetsche did say that would still offer two-door models, but it would not be “in the variety we are having them right now.” Taking into consideration there are coupe and convertible versions of the C, E, and S-Class, along with the SLK and SL roadsters, and the AMG GT coupe and convertible, we wouldn't be shocked if a couple of those models disappear.
      Source: Car and Driver

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      BMW Group U.S. Reports February 2017 Sales
      BMW brand sales increase 0.3 percent MINI brand sales decrease 24.1 percent Woodcliff Lake, NJ – March 1, 2017… Sales of BMW brand vehicles increased 0.3 percent in February for a total of 22,558 compared to 22,498 vehicles sold in February, 2016. Year-to-date, the BMW brand is up 0.2 percent in the U.S. on sales of 40,667 vehicles compared to 40,580 sold in the first two months of 2016.
      “March is the real beginning of the automotive selling season in the U.S. and BMW is well positioned for success with the right mix of vehicles and with the launch of the all-new 5 Series now underway,” said Ludwig Willisch, Head of BMW Group Region Americas. “The trend towards Sports Activity Vehicles is strong but so is demand for the new 5 Series, especially the new M550 which goes on sale in the Spring along with the hybrid-electric 530e.”
      Notable vehicle sales in February include the new BMW 5 Series with 2,731 cars, the BMW X1 which increased to 2,050 vehicles, and the BMW X3 which increased to 4,020 vehicles.
      BMW Group Sales
      In total, the BMW Group in the U.S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported February sales of 24,712 vehicles, a decrease of 2.5 percent from the 25,337 vehicles sold in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date, BMW Group sales are down 1.6 percent on sales of 45,931 vehicles in the first two months of 2017 compared to 46,657 in the same period in 2016.
      MINI Brand Sales
      For February, MINI USA reported 2,154 automobiles sold, a decrease of 24.1 percent from the 2,839 sold in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date, MINI USA reported a total of 5,264 automobiles sold, a decrease of 13.4 percent from 6,077 automobiles sold in the first two months of 2016.

    • By dfelt
      This story is posted by MSN in their auto forum from a U.S. News and World Report story on "Why Are Manual Transmission Disappearing?" 
      Thought it was an interesting piece. I agree with some of what is said but also feel there is a lack of effort on why some might still want a manual or how they can keep the value by being an informed sales person.
      I will agree that the best anti-theft device is a manual transmission now. Seems the news has more and more stories about the craziness of people breaking in to steal an auto and when it is a manual they end up having to leave.
      http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ownership/why-are-manual-transmissions-disappearing/ar-BBwHYFp?li=BBnb7Kz 
    • By dfelt
      G. David Felt
      Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com
       
      EVgo Partners with Nissan and BMW Again to Expand DC Charger Network

      According to the latest release this week by EVgo, a leader in EV charging systems for home, work or public use, they have partnered up with Nissan and BMW to expand coast to coast the DC fast charging network offering both CHAdeMO and SAE Combo (CCS) connectors allowing ALL EV types to charge on the fast charge network. These are 50 kW DC fast charging systems.
      EVgo currently has 668+ DC fast charging systems across the U.S. This partnership will allow them to expand across the US supporting all EV auto's for charging through 2017. 50 more fast charging system will be added in 2017.
      Source - EVgo web site
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Who's Online (See full list)