• Sign in to follow this  
    Followers 0

    BMW M Exec: Not So Bright Future For Manuals, Horsepower Limit


    • Comments from BMW's M Boss Gives Some Ideas As To What the Future Holds

    It seems some changes are coming to BMW's M division based on recent comments from the head of the division, Frank van Meel.

     

    First up is transmissions. van Meel tells Autocar that DCT dual-clutch and automatic transmissions have a bright future for M cars. Not so much for the manual transmission as sales are declining.

     

    “From a technical standpoint, the future doesn’t look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT and auto ’boxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption. It’s difficult to say we’ll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have,” said van Meel.

     

    van Meel also brought up maximum power, saying that M cars will only go up to 600 horsepower.

     

    “For now, 600bhp is the most you can get in an M car. We’re at the limit. If you go on adding more horsepower and torque, it’d probably be over the limits.”

     

    Source: Autocar

    0


    Sign in to follow this  
    Followers 0


    User Feedback


    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

    1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Usually as horsepower goes up in a car, weight goes up also.  Because they have to stiffen the chassis, bigger suspension, bigger brakes, etc.  And at some point you hit a limit of how much power you can put in a sedan and use it.  There are 500 hp cars that beat the Charger Hellcat 0-60 and a lot of cars that beat it in the corners. 

     

    Mercedes has had a 600 hp car over 10 years.  Audi doesn't need a 600 hp car because they have Lamborghini and Bugatti to take care of that crowd.

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

     

    I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

     

    The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

     

    I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

     

    The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

     

     

    I'm not sure what manuals have to do with anything. Like I said, BMW offers manuals in more of it's vehicles than just about anyone.

     

    Also, 700hp in an M5/M6 is just a tune away. What's your point?

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

     

    Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

     

    I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

     

    Whew..I thought I was the only one who was going to feel this way.  Just improve on Power:Weight and it is just as good, if not even more effective because it helps around corners as well.

     

    Realistically..what 1% of us could even exract a full 500hp out of a car..let alone north of 600hp. This is one reason I love the GT350/R and Z/28 so much. Both of them could have went to huge power numbers like the GT500 or ZL1(to a slightly lesser extent) but they didn't. Extracting a full 500-550hp out of a large pony car is about all you can realistically ask for. More than that and the power won't be put to the ground efectively..look GT500 and Hellcat or even the exotic SLS AMG(not Black Series).

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Maybe 8 and 10 speed automatics, especially with rapid paddle shifters, is hard to beat with 6 speed manuals. I can't imagine anyone wanting 8 and 10 speed manuals  :breakdance:

    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

     

    I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

     

    The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

     

    I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight problem.

    Edited by smk4565
    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

     

    I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

     

    The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

     

    I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight probleI 

     

     

    I don't know, if either the Miata or M5 had a sophisticated and rapid paddle shifter on the wheel, quick-servo banging through 8 gears, that would be quite impressive.

    Edited by Wings4Life
    0

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    We are all talking about 500/600/700 horsepower like its nothing...

     

    SMK talked about an E39 M5 making 400 @ 3900 lbs...that right there...is practically my dream horsepower maximum with weight...

     

    I would be totally satisfied with a car the size of an E39 Bimmer,,,maybe a tad bigger...with weight around 3600 lbs...and MAXIMUM horsepower @400 with and equal amount of torques...@ 400 ft/lbs...

     

    No need to go more than that.

    Potholes where I live and ice and snow...actually...250 horsepower is too much...

    Streets are crowded with pedestrians, fellow drivers and law enforcement...250 horsepower is good enough to fully enjoy a car's "limits" on public streets. 

     

    500/600/700 horsepower on daily driven cars on public roads is just....overkill.  Fun...but overkill.

     

    Maybe my 42 years of age is finally starting to show some maturity and some calmness...but that is how I feel.

     

    Besides...like SMK said...more power does add more weight to a car...bigger this and stronger that is required to safely handle more power. Above a certain weight....it defeats the purpose...of being a perfectly balanced car...

    A perfectly balanced car...well...it has to be balanced all around.

    1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites


    Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

    Guest
    You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
    Add a comment...

    ×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor




  • Popular Stories

  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      BMW Group U.S. Reports November 2016 Sales
      BMW brand sales decrease 18.2 percent MINI brand sales increase 1.4 percent Woodcliff Lake, NJ – December 1, 2016… Sales of BMW brand vehicles decreased 18.2 percent in November for a total of 26,189 compared to 32,003 vehicles sold in November, 2015.  Year-to-date, the BMW brand is down 10.0 percent in the U.S. on sales of 280,339 vehicles compared to 311,398 sold in the first eleven months of 2015.
       
      Notable vehicle sales in November include the BMW 7 Series which increased 18.0 percent to 1,233 cars, the BMW X1 which increased 53.2 percent to 2,745 vehicles, and the BMW X5 which increased 18.4 percent to 4,693 vehicles.
       
      “Only a month remains in this year and we are beginning to bid farewell to the current generation 5 Series and getting ready to welcome the all-new BMW 5 Series which will make its world debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January,” said Ludwig Willisch, President and CEO, BMW of North America.  “The dynamic driving character of the new 5 Series will be a complement to our 7 Series and make for a stronger model lineup heading into 2017.”  
        
      BMW Group Sales
      In total, the BMW Group in the U.S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported November sales of 30,696 vehicles, a decrease of 15.8 percent from the 36,447 vehicles sold in the same month a year ago.  Year-to-date, BMW Group sales are down 10.2 percent on sales of 327,711 vehicles in the first eleven months of 2016 compared to 364,903 in the same period in 2015. 
       
      MINI Brand Sales
      For November, MINI USA reported 4,507 automobiles sold, an increase of 1.4 percent from the 4,444 sold in the same month a year ago.  Year-to-date, MINI USA reported a total of 47,372 automobiles sold, a decrease of 11.5 percent from 53,505 automobiles sold in the first eleven months of 2015.

    • By dfelt
      G. David Felt
      Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com
       
      Europe's 400 Ultra-Fast Charging Network by 2020

      Europe like America has the 3 basic charging standards in play in their fragile network of 2016. These is what we know as the 110, 220 and 440, level 1, 2 and 3 chargers. Yet Europe is not standing by waiting for Tesla or American Auto companies to drive EV auto's. Instead Europe has built the following consortium of Auto companies who have all chosen to contribute an equal amount to building the next generation charger network. VW, GM, BMW, Daimler, FORD, FCA, Hyundai, Volvo and Jaguar Land Rover have choosen to build 400 locations over the next 3 years that will sense and charge up to 350 kW in the period of a quick Coffee break. This is significantly faster and higher than the Tesla 120kW fast charging system. The goal by the European Government is to offer road trip worthy auto's with fast charging to bring less noise and cleaner air to European cities by 2020 and to make the bulk of inner city auto's EV's within 10 years of the fast charging system going live, so by 2030.

      Diamler is wanting to lead the European charge with their 300+ kilometer EV-CUV

      This would seem to show that Tesla has had the desired effect of making a market changing revolution of how companies and governments see the future of transportation.
      Source PM
    • By William Maley
      BMW Group U.S. Reports October 2016 Sales
      BMW brand sales decrease 18.4 percent MINI brand sales decrease 3.3 percent Woodcliff Lake, NJ – November 1, 2016… Sales of BMW brand vehicles decreased 18.4 percent in October for a total of 24,017 compared to 29,439 vehicles sold in October, 2015.  Year-to-date, the BMW brand is down 9.0 percent in the U.S. on sales of 254,150 vehicles compared to 279,395 sold in the first ten months of 2015.
       
      Notable vehicle sales in October include the BMW 7 Series which increased to 1,133 cars, the BMW X1 which increased to 2,710 vehicles, and the BMW X3 which increased to 3,680 vehicles.
       
       “The volatility of the U.S. market is more clearly evident as the pace of sales continues slowing from the peak of 2015,” said Ludwig Willisch, President and CEO, BMW of North America. “At the same time, BMW Sports Activity Vehicles – X1 to X6 - have set a new record, more than 100,000 sold year to date, accounting for 47% of our October sales, with room for more growth as demand for these popular models continues to increase.”  
       
      BMW Group Sales
      In total, the BMW Group in the U.S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported October sales of 27,971 vehicles, a decrease of 16.6 percent from the 33,526 vehicles sold in the same month a year ago.  Year-to-date, BMW Group sales are down 9.6 percent on sales of 297,015 vehicles in the first ten months of 2016 compared to 328,456 in the same period in 2015. 
       
      MINI Brand Sales
      For October, MINI USA reported 3,954 automobiles sold, a decrease of 3.3 percent from the 4,087 sold in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date, MINI USA reported a total of 42,865 automobiles sold, a decrease of 12.6 percent from 49,061 automobiles sold in the first ten months of 2015.

    • By William Maley
      Rumors of BMW bringing back the 8-Series have been floating around since February when sources revealed there were two proposals on the table; a larger version of the 6-Series Gran Coupe and a new two-door coupe/convertible. This would only intensify over the summer when a report revealed that BMW had trademarked a number of 8-Series names. Now a new report says BMW is going forward with the 8-Series as a coupe.
      Automobilwoche has learned from sources that BMW will be bringing back the 8-Series in late 2018. The model will fill the gap between the 7-Series and the Rolls-Royce Ghost/Wraith/Dawn, and give the Mercedes S-Class coupe a run for its money. The coupe will come first, followed by a convertible and the option of a V12 engine. A M8 version is under discussion.
      Automobilwoche also reports that the 6-Series coupe and convertible will not be replaced, although the fate of the 6-Series Gran Coupe is up in the air.
      Source: Automobilwoche via Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Rumors of BMW bringing back the 8-Series have been floating around since February when sources revealed there were two proposals on the table; a larger version of the 6-Series Gran Coupe and a new two-door coupe/convertible. This would only intensify over the summer when a report revealed that BMW had trademarked a number of 8-Series names. Now a new report says BMW is going forward with the 8-Series as a coupe.
      Automobilwoche has learned from sources that BMW will be bringing back the 8-Series in late 2018. The model will fill the gap between the 7-Series and the Rolls-Royce Ghost/Wraith/Dawn, and give the Mercedes S-Class coupe a run for its money. The coupe will come first, followed by a convertible and the option of a V12 engine. A M8 version is under discussion.
      Automobilwoche also reports that the 6-Series coupe and convertible will not be replaced, although the fate of the 6-Series Gran Coupe is up in the air.
      Source: Automobilwoche via Automotive News (Subscription Required)
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Who's Online (See full list)