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    William Maley

    Cadillac Elmiraj to Influence CT6? Umm, No

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      Dreaming Of A Elmiraj-inspired flagship? Sadly, Those Dreams Will Not Come To Fruition.

    If you were hoping that Cadillac would sprinkle some of the design from the Elmiraj concept for the upcoming CT6 flagship, prepare to be disappointed. GM's vice-president of global design, Ed Welburn, tells Automotive News that the CT6 will not be influenced by the Elmiraj. Instead the CT6 will stick with the art and science design theme found on current Cadillacs.

    “I think Elmiraj was more of an influence on some other things we’re working on for Cadillac,” said Welburn. “It’ll be different and it will certainly stand out in the portfolio. But you won’t see a real shift in direction.”

    We'll see if there is a real shift when the CT6 debuts next year at the New York Auto Show.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    This is a lot about nothing IMO. The Elmiraj is clearly linked to the A&S language, but tho the body envelope is a beaut as a big coupe, the details are not refined enough to my eye, falling below those on the ATS & CTS. What I would least like to see is that huge, bland grillwork in the CT6. Overall, I give the Elmiraj a 7 and the Ciel a 9. 

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    "And its name will commence a top-to-bottom redo of Cadillac’s vehicle-naming setup."

     

    This just keeps irritating me.

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    The CT6 is only a stepping stone to the future of Cadillac not the finish line.

    There was a time this was going to be the end all be all for Cadillac bases on what GM was willing to support but now it is only a stop on a much longer and more ambitious path. With the new more promising commitment of GM to let them be more autonomous and even chase after their own engines and other needed things this is a whole new ball game but it will take even more time and money. Lets now see if GM will follow through on their pledge.

     

    I am for once really excited as GM for once is doing the right thing with Cadillac and not just going for good enough.

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    The CT6 is only a stepping stone to the future of Cadillac not the finish line.

    There was a time this was going to be the end all be all for Cadillac bases on what GM was willing to support but now it is only a stop on a much longer and more ambitious path. With the new more promising commitment of GM to let them be more autonomous and even chase after their own engines and other needed things this is a whole new ball game but it will take even more time and money. Lets now see if GM will follow through on their pledge.

    I am for once really excited as GM for once is doing the right thing with Cadillac and not just going for good enough.

    I was going to say the same thing, but I didn't have anything to back it up. It is just a feeling I have. The CT6 feels like it was once going to be the be all end all for Cadillac, but now I feel like it is going to be step 1 in an all new surge.

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    From the spy photos it looks more like an XTS than any of their concept cars.  I expect mild styling, nothing dramatic.

     

    I will say this car will be interesting in many ways.  For one they are going further upmarket than ever before, so the execution of that will be interesting.  We know it is about 7-series or LS460 sized, so how they price it and what will it be up against?  And then how does it influence the rest of the lineup and where do they go after it?  I'm curious to see the final product and to see how it sells.

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    SMK, did you provide a positive perception to look forward for a GM product? Or that you have actually matured to wait for the final product prior to bashing it?

     

    Regardless, I will give you one up.

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    Guest hyperv6

    Posted

    You have to consider what has been going on inside GM over Cadillac. There has been one group that wanted to make a good car but not fully commit to what it would take to make a great car. Then there was the side that wanted to commit to go all in and give Cadillac all they want and need to make the kind of cars they could if supported properly.

    A sign of this was show to the public when the now CT6 was getting the door handles set. Mark Reuss wanted a better door handle and there were others inside GM [mostly old GM culture types] that wanted a cheaper handle.

    The key point here is we were talking a few bucks more for a much better door handle. And what is the big deal here. Well what is the first thing you touch on a car? A door handle. If you grab one that is plastic or has a casting ridge on it what does it do to your impressions over one that feels like a well designed quality piece.

     

    Cadillac prices are going up as they will be increasing the quality of what they put in. These things are not free but people will pay for them if you provide them with a quality part.

     

    It may not be much more expensive but impressions are what sell quality and perceived quality is what sells cars.

    For Cadillac to win here they need to be not as good but better. Leading the segment and winning the image game takes a better car and time to build that image. Little details like this mirror and other parts all add up.

     

    At one point the XTS was the stepping stone to the CT6. Today with GM's full commitment to a whole slew of better products and Cadillac's own engines it proves the good guys won the argument to this point.

    The key now it to follow through on this. The plans are still fairly new and we will see and hear about models and engines we never though GM would commit to.

     

    With this model we will only be able to gauge Cadillac's progress but not on their final goals. I think many have no clue to what is coming and I think they will be shocked. Johann has been given the keys to a division unlike he has ever held. One that is willing to take big swings from what they had planned. It will be interesting what his first moves will be.

     

    We will see more cars and a slew of SUV and CUV models to a level never expected from Cadillac. Just consider the ATS, CTS and CT6 as cars done on a moderate budget and the real spending is yet to come.

     

    I think many will be shocked at where this all is going as we will see things here that will really show what GM can do if you let their talented engineers and designers loose.  

     

    As of now the CT6 went from Flagship to just the current top full size model. We will see more dramatic changes now that Mark and his crew won the fight.

     

     

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    If it is S-class size, then this is a big car.  The S-class is over 206 inches long.

     

    What makes this car eagerly anticipated is Cadillac has said they want to be on par with the Germans, and there is no bankruptcy excuse that can be used, that could have been used 5 years ago.  This is their shot into the upper end of the luxury market, which is a place Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, etc have either failed at or not tried to get into that segment.  Even Lexus after 25 years of the LS sells it way cheaper than the European V8 rivals, and the LS in some ways feels like a big Toyota inside, to Drew's point, a lot of the window switches in an LS460 are the same you find in a Camry or Avalon. 

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    Aside from the durability concerns, I'd prefer a K900 any day of the week over an LS.  If I was just leasing for 24 months, Kia's long term reliability wouldn't be my problem.

     

    I do believe Cadillac is shooting for the moon with this one.  They have made some great strides on their interiors. The CTS interior is above the 5-series, GS, Q... whatever and A6 fairly easily.  I think CUE and some shared interior hardware puts it a bit behind E-class, but not by much.

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    This is a lot about nothing IMO. The Elmiraj is clearly linked to the A&S language, but tho the body envelope is a beaut as a big coupe, the details are not refined enough to my eye, falling below those on the ATS & CTS. What I would least like to see is that huge, bland grillwork in the CT6. Overall, I give the Elmiraj a 7 and the Ciel a 9. 

     

     

    I would say more like an 8, but still better than any other automotive design I've seen in years, and a 10, pretty much perfection. The XTS and ELR seem to have more in common with the Elmiraj, not a bad thing either. I do think that the CTS and ATS take their styling cues directly from the Ciel. As does the Escalade, for that matter. In fact.. the Escalade perhaps more so. My hop and dream is that the next SRX is going that way as well. 

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    You have to consider what has been going on inside GM over Cadillac. There has been one group that wanted to make a good car but not fully commit to what it would take to make a great car. Then there was the side that wanted to commit to go all in and give Cadillac all they want and need to make the kind of cars they could if supported properly.

    A sign of this was show to the public when the now CT6 was getting the door handles set. Mark Reuss wanted a better door handle and there were others inside GM [mostly old GM culture types] that wanted a cheaper handle.

    The key point here is we were talking a few bucks more for a much better door handle. And what is the big deal here. Well what is the first thing you touch on a car? A door handle. If you grab one that is plastic or has a casting ridge on it what does it do to your impressions over one that feels like a well designed quality piece.

     

    Cadillac prices are going up as they will be increasing the quality of what they put in. These things are not free but people will pay for them if you provide them with a quality part.

     

    It may not be much more expensive but impressions are what sell quality and perceived quality is what sells cars.

    For Cadillac to win here they need to be not as good but better. Leading the segment and winning the image game takes a better car and time to build that image. Little details like this mirror and other parts all add up.

     

    At one point the XTS was the stepping stone to the CT6. Today with GM's full commitment to a whole slew of better products and Cadillac's own engines it proves the good guys won the argument to this point.

    The key now it to follow through on this. The plans are still fairly new and we will see and hear about models and engines we never though GM would commit to.

     

    With this model we will only be able to gauge Cadillac's progress but not on their final goals. I think many have no clue to what is coming and I think they will be shocked. Johann has been given the keys to a division unlike he has ever held. One that is willing to take big swings from what they had planned. It will be interesting what his first moves will be.

     

    We will see more cars and a slew of SUV and CUV models to a level never expected from Cadillac. Just consider the ATS, CTS and CT6 as cars done on a moderate budget and the real spending is yet to come.

     

    I think many will be shocked at where this all is going as we will see things here that will really show what GM can do if you let their talented engineers and designers loose.  

     

    As of now the CT6 went from Flagship to just the current top full size model. We will see more dramatic changes now that Mark and his crew won the fight.

     

     

     

    If this holds true, and I think it will, we will see a Cadillac that quite possibly not only rivals Benz, but the uber set originally from England as well.

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    The plan is in place and the key now is will GM have the will and leadership to stick with this to completion. It will not be cheap or easy and will take time to complete.

     

    Also outside factors like world economy could stop this in their tracks if the Russia economy collapses and take others with it etc.

     

    They have built an ambitious game plan and one that could work. Now we just have to see if they can pull it off.

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    Cadillac can still do this even with the collapse of Russia and it's supporting countries. MB and BMW need to worry due to the self destructing Socialist of Europe and how many countries there are ready to go bankrupt.

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