Fiat Chrysler Posts Record Earning for Q3 2019

Kill off Fiat and Alfa should have never been allowed to happen and they would be been profitable. Alfa was a stupid decision to bring it back from the grave as was bringing Fiat here to the US.

I've seen maybe a 1/2 dozen Stelvios and 1/2 dozen Guilias around NE Ohio over the last few months...they are selling, albeit in small numbers..certainly distinctive looking. I hear they drive great..

When you spend near zero on new product, easy to post a profit.  I feel like Carlos Tavares will overhaul FCA and those weak brands will be whacked.  I would't be surprised if Ram and Jeep are the only 2 left, but Dodge could stay selling rebadged Peugeots and Opels and maybe Maserati stays because it is their top brand and in theory should have high margins.

fiat is dead; a vegetable. Sold 900 vehicles in Dec '18 (U.S.). Alfa sold 1900 the same month. Chrysler sold 12,425 and Dodge sold 32,xxx.
Bury the dying and invest in the living.

Too bad those record profits are derived from little to no investment in product.  Then again, with the merger with Peugeot, many brands will be shed.  The correct question is which ones WILL survive.

10 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Too bad those record profits are derived from little to no investment in product.  Then again, with the merger with Peugeot, many brands will be shed.  The correct question is which ones WILL survive.

Dealerships will Sue, this will end up in the courts if they try to kill off the Dodge and Chrysler dealerships here. I would expect re-badges to go in. The only way D&C get killed off is if they are given P&O dealerships to replace them. I think marketing would hold a P&O dealership back compared to re-badge P&O product as D&C product.

No one cares about the American brands except Jeep and Ram. Expect a full europeanization of the lineup. They want to take on VW and you don't do that with LX platform cars. 

Why anyone would think Dodge is a potential victim makes no sense. These are numbers people; the numbers point to the FCA Euro brands, not to Dodge. Chrysler is a bit more murky, but they have to be doing better than either fiat or alfa are. 
Doing Euro rebadges of C/D will be a huge waste of capital as those brands would quickly sink below the waves. Rebadged euro cars don’t work in the USDM.

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Why anyone would think Dodge is a potential victim makes no sense. These are number people; the numbers point to the FCA Euro brands, not to Dodge. Chrysler is a bit more murky, bit they have tp be doing better than either fiat or alfa are. 
Doing Euro rebadges of C/D will be a huge waste of capital as those brands would quickly sink below the waves. Rebadged euro cars don’t work in the USDM.

We don't have and recent evidence of that either way. 

Dodge especially is seeped in being American. Theres no fans waving Buick flags, but there are legions of Dodge fans. You swap in some nose-jobbed alfa and that all goes down the toilet. 

Will anyone really miss FIAT and Alfa Romeo?  Hell no to FIAT and not really to Alfa Romeo. 

Will anyone miss Chrysler and Dodge?  That is unknown.  Rebadging Peugeot as a Chrysler or Dodge might work IF they replace the 200/Avenger or the smaller cars.  The 300/Charger/Challenger would be a much harder sell to convert (and should not be rebadged Peugeot cars anyway).  Jeep and RAM will be fine and ultimately left alone since that is where the CASH FLOW really is.

32 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Will anyone really miss FIAT and Alfa Romeo?  Hell no to FIAT and not really to Alfa Romeo. 

Will anyone miss Chrysler and Dodge?  That is unknown.

Look at the sales numbers I posted above- there’s your answer.

57 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We don't have and recent evidence of that either way. 

Well, the Regal is a rebadged Euro model and a sales failure, the Dart and 200 were based on a European platform and were failures.  Anecdotal, maybe.   I can't imagine trying to sell Peugeot/Citroen FWD sedans as Dodge or Chryslers, the small and midsize FWD sedan niche is a dead end these days.

Peugeot and Citroen have lots of CUVs, but Jeep has lots of CUVs.  Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. 

4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Well, the Regal is a rebadged Euro model and a sales failure, the Dart and 200 were based on a European platform and were failures.  Anecdotal, maybe. 

Dart and 200 weren't rebadges. The old Regal sold fine as a rebadged Opel. The problem now is people moving away from sedans. 

Promaster and Promaster city are doing just fine.  Transit is a best seller as is Transit connect. 

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Dart and 200 weren't rebadges.  

I didn't say they were, but were very forgettable appliances on a Fiat-Alfa platform..

Just now, Robert Hall said:

I didn't say they were, but were very forgettable appliances on a Fiat-Alfa platform..

Dart was an economy sedan. They're all forgettable. 

200 was actually a pretty good car, positioned incorrectly by Chrysler to try and cover too many bases. It should have been lined up directly with Regal instead of trying to compete with CamCord. 

Promaster/Transit Connect are emotionless / utilitarian purchases, a consumer scenario not applicable to private pass vehicle purchases.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No one cares about the American brands except Jeep and Ram. Expect a full europeanization of the lineup. They want to take on VW and you don't do that with LX platform cars. 

Thank you for your input on this, I was actually not thinking that the LX platform auto's would survive, just the Dealership names of Dodge and Chrysler with rebadge of PSA auto's having those badges on them.

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Why anyone would think Dodge is a potential victim makes no sense. These are number people; the numbers point to the FCA Euro brands, not to Dodge. Chrysler is a bit more murky, bit they have tp be doing better than either fiat or alfa are. 
Doing Euro rebadges of C/D will be a huge waste of capital as those brands would quickly sink below the waves. Rebadged euro cars don’t work in the USDM.

I disagree, there is no evidence that a D or C badge on a Pugeot or Opel would not sell here. I would expect those divisions to add a bit of American flair anyways to a P or O platform auto being sold under those names.

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Thank you for your input on this, I was actually not thinking that the LX platform auto's would survive, just the Dealership names of Dodge and Chrysler with rebadge of PSA auto's having those badges on them.

That would be a disaster..given the LX platform models are the only thing Dodge has going, I'd assume they will survive and evolve.  Without the Charger and Challenger there is no Dodge.  

The Durango will probably be replaced by the 3 row next-gen Grand Cherokee, the Journey could be replaced by something derived from the next Cherokee..   I'm not sure if Dodge needs CUVs/SUVs since Jeep has plenty.   For Chrysler, I don't see the Voyager/Pacifica going anywhere, not sure about the 300..

It will be interesting to see if we see Peugeot/Citroen/DS dealers eventually if this goes through, or if those brands get integrated into the existing FCA JRCD dealers.  Though I can't see PSA-branded FWD midsize sedans or compact hatchbacks doing well in the US, given the CUV-dominant market we have now...

There apparently is a new Charger on the books based on the Guilia platform. But if it survives is another question.  They should still make a premium version of it and call it 300... but they won't. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Look at the sales numbers I posted above- there’s your answer.

Yet Pugeot out sells Chrysler and Dodge.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/peugeot/

2019, they have sold to date = 664,964 auto's. I have to think a rebadge of their auto's could sell here.

P&O auto's are doing much better than Fiat and Alfa. https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2019-september-europe-car-sales-and-market-analysis/

hundreds of thousands better.

Just now, dfelt said:

Yet Pugeot out sells Chrysler and Dodge.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/peugeot/

2019, they have sold to date = 664,964 auto's. I have to think a rebadge of their auto's could sell here.

P&O auto's are doing much better than Fiat and Alfa. https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2019-september-europe-car-sales-and-market-analysis/

hundreds of thousands better.

That's in Europe.  I can't imagine they could sell much in the US.   

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

That would be a disaster..given the LX platform models are the only thing Dodge has going, I'd assume they will survive and evolve.  Without the Charger and Challenger there is no Dodge.  

The Durango will probably be replaced by the 3 row next-gen Grand Cherokee, the Journey could be replaced by something derived from the next Cherokee..   I'm not sure if Dodge needs CUVs/SUVs since Jeep has plenty.   For Chrysler, I don't see the Voyager/Pacifica going anywhere, not sure about the 300..

It will be interesting to see if we see Peugeot/Citroen/DS dealers eventually if this goes through, or if those brands get integrated into the existing FCA JRCD dealers.  Though I can't see PSA-branded FWD midsize sedans or compact hatchbacks doing well in the US, given the CUV-dominant market we have now...

I disagree with the thinking that it would be a disaster.

Take the quarter million unit selling Pugoet 208 and you have an AWD standard, Sport and RT model and then evetually you add in the Hellcat. Nothing say's FCA/PSA could not do a Hellcat TTV6 version with the RT being a hipo TT4 banger.

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

That's in Europe.  I can't imagine they could sell much in the US.   

Do not know until they try and using a global platform which all auto companies are doing, I see no reason to not use one of the P&O lines to invigorate D&C with product.

5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I disagree with the thinking that it would be a disaster.

Take the quarter million unit selling Pugoet 208 and you have an AWD standard, Sport and RT model and then evetually you add in the Hellcat. Nothing say's FCA/PSA could not do a Hellcat TTV6 version with the RT being a hipo TT4 banger.

Do not know until they try and using a global platform which all auto companies are doing, I see no reason to not use one of the P&O lines to invigorate D&C with product.

Blah....a Charger on FWD/transverse platform would make no sense.   The 208 is just a FWD/transverse engine generic.  At least the Guilia platform is a proper RWD platform. 

The 208 is a good Golf competitor, but would it sell here?   In this CUV/SUV/truck dominated market? 

Here is the Oct 29th release of the best selling models in Europe.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2019-q1-q3-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/

Compared to FCA European sales numbers

I am honestly surprised that Fiat sells that many sub compact auto's but I guess they are cheap in Europe where it is more acceptable than here in the US where no one wants them.

Just now, dfelt said:

Here is the Oct 29th release of the best selling models in Europe.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2019-q1-q3-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/

Compared to FCA European sales numbers

I am honestly surprised that Fiat sells that many sub compact auto's but I guess they are cheap in Europe where it is more acceptable than here in the US where no one wants them.

And they sell a lot in S. America also.   Remember, the US market is very different from the rest of the world. 

Keep in mind that none of Peugeot's, Citroen's, and Opel's current models, except for the Regal, are legal for sale in the US. They can't just rebadge them and sell them here. They don't meet US regs.  PSA will have a bunch of work to do on their next refreshes to get them legal enough to rebadge for the states.  I would expect that FCA's current plans for the next 2 - 3 years will remain completely unchanged with the possible exception that Fiat brand possibly exits North America.

That means, the next Charger would still be on Guilia platform. 

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

I disagree with the thinking that it would be a disaster.

Take the quarter million unit selling Pugoet 208 and you have an AWD standard, Sport and RT model and then evetually you add in the Hellcat. Nothing say's FCA/PSA could not do a Hellcat TTV6 version with the RT being a hipo TT4 banger.

 

I dont really have an opinion on a PSA/FCA merger (other than almost nobody in North America gives a shyte for French cars...therefore a return for any French brand in North America is gonna be a flop)

(EDIT:  I take that back...PSA has some nice, stylish CUVs that maybe they could seduce North Americans with...)  

And I do not really oppose a TTV6 AWD Challenger and Charger nor 4 cylinder turbos in those cars, but I do draw the line in calling a TTV6 a Hellcat. 

I mean...   707  -  717  -  797   (Demon not included)  horsepower figures on supercharged V8s  with  just about as much torque is the reason why a malevolent feline (with a red eye on one model) was given as its name.   TTV6s could be baaaad, I aint disputing that. Lookin' at you Buick with the GNX and that is with only 1 turbo, but as baaaad as that GNX was in relation to its era, a Hellcat and a Demon is just...downright....HELLISH.  Lord Vader is a  pu$$ie with his Buick as compared to the Prince of Darkness and his choice of Mopars. 

Therefore, I am down with AWD and twin turbo 6 cylinders for a next gen Challenger and Charger. I aint down with that power train be called Hellcat, because it simply...aint... 

Id settle for...Wraith.   The Challenger SRT Wraith. I dig that.  

With a nod to the car below.

16 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I dont really have an opinion on a PSA/FCA merger (other than almost nobody in North America gives a shyte for French cars...therefore a return for any French brand in North America is gonna be a flop)

(EDIT:  I take that back...PSA has some nice, stylish CUVs that maybe they could seduce North Americans with...)  

And I do not really oppose a TTV6 AWD Challenger and Charger nor 4 cylinder turbos in those cars, but I do draw the line in calling a TTV6 a Hellcat. 

I mean...   707  -  717  -  797   (Demon not included)  horsepower figures on supercharged V8s  with  just about as much torque is the reason why a malevolent feline (with a red eye on one model) was given as its name.   TTV6s could be baaaad, I aint disputing that. Lookin' at you Buick with the GNX and that is with only 1 turbo, but as baaaad as that GNX was in relation to its era, a Hellcat and a Demon is just...downright....HELLISH.  Lord Vader is a  pu$$ie with his Buick as compared to the Prince of Darkness and his choice of Mopars. 

Therefore, I am down with AWD and twin turbo 6 cylinders for a next gen Challenger and Charger. I aint down with that power train be called Hellcat, because it simply...aint... 

Id settle for...Wraith.   The Challenger SRT Wraith. I dig that.  

With a nod to the car below.

 

I understand what you say, but the days are numbers on V8 and anything bigger, There are companies that now can take a Dodge Challanger or Charger V6 and with Twin Turbo make it 506hp at the wheels. Turbo's are rated to 450 hp each so combined you could easily make a 900HP TTV6.

https://prodigyperformance.com/products/dodge-challenger-twin-turbo-kit/

The days of a Hellcat will stay alive with this type of Technology. Just do not expect to have V8 Hellcat power with V6 MPG. ? 

In regards to the French style of Auto's, I agree they suck, but I am not talking about taking the car as is, put a dodge or chrysler badge on it, but use the platform with American style for new auto's.

On 11/1/2019 at 12:48 PM, dfelt said:

Yet Pugeot out sells Chrysler and Dodge.

Not in the U.S.. ?

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

I understand what you say, but the days are numbers on V8 and anything bigger, There are companies that now can take a Dodge Challanger or Charger V6 and with Twin Turbo make it 506hp at the wheels. Turbo's are rated to 450 hp each so combined you could easily make a 900HP TTV6.

https://prodigyperformance.com/products/dodge-challenger-twin-turbo-kit/

The days of a Hellcat will stay alive with this type of Technology. Just do not expect to have V8 Hellcat power with V6 MPG. ? 

In regards to the French style of Auto's, I agree they suck, but I am not talking about taking the car as is, put a dodge or chrysler badge on it, but use the platform with American style for new auto's.

This type of technology?

The Hellcat already uses this tech. On a V8. With a Gi-normous supercharger.  The Hellephant 426 Hemi  crate engine makes 1000 plus horsepower. Reliable horsepower.  

But that is NOT the point. Horsepower is NOT what makes a Hellcat a Hellcat. Its not cylinder count either. 

What???!!!

Its BOTH combined.  Plus...

The whole muscle car image of adolescent names and logos and visceral acceleration and V8 sounds. 

The total package. 

Remember, we are talking about HELLCAT as a name.  There is nothing wrong about retiring the Hellcat name and leaving it to history and remembering it as a legend.

An AWD TTV6 should be something else on a Challenger.  Even if an AWD TTV6 Challenger (smaller and lighter and  newer platformed car)  could be quicker and faster than a Hellcat, I think it should be something else to carry the MOPAR lore. 

Remember, there was no other Hellcat (at least I dont think) in MOPAR history before this one. There was several Demons and Super Bees, but no Hellcats.   There is no need to carry that name going forward. MOPAR could just as easily create another legend with another awesome name and Id be fine with it.  

That is all Im sayin'    

The next 6-cylinder from FCA will be a turbocharged inline 6. 

I have a weird sentiment on the Alfa Romeo Giulia.  Some days I like the car, other days I do not.

Side profile reminds me too much of a BMW, and I HATE on BMWs for the most part.

But the over all styling of the Giulia is more often sexy to me than not. And I do like the exhaust notes of that turbo 2.9. 

An inline turbo 6 on a future Giulia will bring it that much closer to mimic a BMW, which I strangely applaud and can get very excited about.   *hmmmmm*  Great idea indeed to have a TTI6 Giulia.  

Could I get excited about a possible TTI6 Challenger SRT ACR or  Challenger SRT "Wraith"  in the near future?  

I think I can, yes!!!

I like the styling of the Guilia quite a bit, esp. the front with the offset license plate.  I like the interior styling.  Sounds like the quality and reliability isn't the greatest...but from what I've read, they a seriously fun car to drive.   Like a BMW 3 series before BMW lost it's focus...