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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Muscle Car Wars Find A New Battleground In China

      The Camaro and Mustang fights expands into China

    The rivalry of the Chevrolet Camaro and Ford Mustang has been going for ages in the U.S. But now this fight has expanded into China.

    Automotive News reports that a growing group of Chinese buyers are being drawn towards to these models as the exude the no-apologies Americana attitude.

    "We're seeing the beginning of a muscle car culture here. Something that is uniquely American appeals to the Chinese consumer. The image that it relays to the automotive public is very positive," said James Chao, a China market auto analyst with IHS Markit.

    Sales of both models are small with Chevrolet only moving 2,000 Camaros since its launch 2011. Ford is doing slightly better with 6,200 Mustangs sold since its launch in 2015. In the first quarter, Mustang sales saw a 90 percent increase to 963 vehicles. Part of the reason for the slow sales comes down to the price. The Camaro starts about 399,900 yuan (about $58,000) - more than double of the base price of $26,900 in the U.S. The Mustang isn't that far behind, costing about $15 dollars less. Prices are increased due to a 25 percent import tariff on U.S. made vehicles, homologation and shipping fees, and Chinese buyers trending to splurge on higher-time models.

    But despite the low sales, the Camaro and Mustang are bringing buyers to dealers. These models act as eye candy to help draw shoppers into showrooms with the hope they'll purchase a vehicle, where it be the eye candy or something a little less exciting.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    A Horse With No Name
    3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Yes! yes we can!

    I earned myself at least a week ban for this!

    So yeah...Ill take a week off!

    Ill read posts and just up vote where I see fit!

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Yes! yes we can!

    I earned myself at least a week ban for this!

    So yeah...Ill take a week off!

    Ill read posts and just up vote where I see fit!

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Yes! yes we can!

    I earned myself at least a week ban for this!

    So yeah...Ill take a week off!

    Ill read posts and just up vote where I see fit!

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    • Agree 3
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    oldshurst442
    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    Just take a week off of stupid infighting please...I want to talk about cars and I enjoy your friendship and perspectives.

    Will do!

    And I did not waste any time in accepting your suggestion of talking about cars and letting the infighting be a thing of the past!

    Link to comment
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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, dfelt said:

    @oldshurst442 @A Horse With No Name @Drew Dowdell

    So guys, how long before we see the first EV pony car?

    Will it be a hit or not?

    Will it be a plugin hybrid?

    What do you think the Torque / HP numbers could be?

    I think the segment is dying, I would like to see a future rivalry between modern cars.  I love vintage cars as much as anyone, but for me the retro thing has played out.

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    oldshurst442
    26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    @oldshurst442 @A Horse With No Name @Drew Dowdell

    So guys, how long before we see the first EV pony car?

    Will it be a hit or not?

    Will it be a plugin hybrid?

    What do you think the Torque / HP numbers could be?

    Ford and Chevy and if FCA is still alive...

    They better start re-inventing the Pony Car as it might lose its relevance...

    Coupes are practically dead.

    The only ones that are still around are the ones with some sort of history.

    The V8 is becoming less and less relevant in every day, average joe people cars...

    The only V8s that are every day, average joe people cars are the Pony Cars...

    But...with turbo 4s as base engines in these cars and EVs being almost at the tipping point, it may not be too long for the classic American Pony Car to become extinct...

    The Demon from Dodge is a cry for help. One last hurrah. If FCA does not give it a new platform it will die off.

    If GM does not sell enough Alpha platformed cars....which includes the ATS....then the Camaro might die off...it happened before with the Camaro....don't think it might not happen again...

    The Mustang seems like the only one to stay relevant. But it WILL need to go EV soon enough as maybe Tesla will offer a competitor soon...

    Hey...don't laugh...the Tesla Roadster is said to get a new model....soon! Maybe a coupe variant will be in the works?

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    David
    31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I thought Ford already mentioned they would be doing a hybrid mustang at some point

    They had mentioned during one of their media presentations that Hybrid could be considered but have not committed to it or have I found any update on their EV / hybrid strategy in regards to the pony car.

    I could see a 300 HP 350 lbs ft torque rear wheel drive pony car. I can also see this being double the numbers in AWD form.

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Ford and Chevy and if FCA is still alive...

    They better start re-inventing the Pony Car as it might lose its relevance...

    Coupes are practically dead.

    The only ones that are still around are the ones with some sort of history.

    The V8 is becoming less and less relevant in every day, average joe people cars...

    The only V8s that are every day, average joe people cars are the Pony Cars...

    But...with turbo 4s as base engines in these cars and EVs being almost at the tipping point, it may not be too long for the classic American Pony Car to become extinct...

    The Demon from Dodge is a cry for help. One last hurrah. If FCA does not give it a new platform it will die off.

    If GM does not sell enough Alpha platformed cars....which includes the ATS....then the Camaro might die off...it happened before with the Camaro....don't think it might not happen again...

    The Mustang seems like the only one to stay relevant. But it WILL need to go EV soon enough as maybe Tesla will offer a competitor soon...

    Hey...don't laugh...the Tesla Roadster is said to get a new model....soon! Maybe a coupe variant will be in the works?

    A Tesla Roadster, and then a futuristic sports hot hatch with a crossover vibe from Ford and GM that would be hybrid or full electric.

    The Ford Ecosport and the bolt both have a nice vibe to them, I cannot imagine Ford and GM not being able to bring something new and fresh to the market.

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    David
    22 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    A Tesla Roadster, and then a futuristic sports hot hatch with a crossover vibe from Ford and GM that would be hybrid or full electric.

    The Ford Ecosport and the bolt both have a nice vibe to them, I cannot imagine Ford and GM not being able to bring something new and fresh to the market.

    If you have some spare time, I highly recommend test driving a BOLT. Especially in Sport Mode. Wife loved regular mode but the added punch you get in sport mode makes it one quiet but powerful pocket rocket of fun.

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 hour ago, dfelt said:

    If you have some spare time, I highly recommend test driving a BOLT. Especially in Sport Mode. Wife loved regular mode but the added punch you get in sport mode makes it one quiet but powerful pocket rocket of fun.

    I am afraid to drive it as it is just a little bit beyond my price range and I know if I drive it I will want it.

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    David
    13 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I am afraid to drive it as it is just a little bit beyond my price range and I know if I drive it I will want it.

    I understand, I love to test drive auto's even though I cannot afford to buy. Still very fun and even the base BOLT still has the sport mode. So I have to say you get allot for $29,995 after federal tax credit.

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    David

    We'll I can see why the Mustang is selling more than the Camaro. They are advertising more.

    Ford-Mustang-China-Print-Ad.jpg

    I was unable to really find any advertising and had to resort to searching for Camaro in China and finally found this.

    2017-camaro-camaro-costs-58125-in-china_1.jpg

    So yes, FORD would sell more mustangs than Camaro as GM is doing what they always seem to do, piss poor marketing of a product. But then as Drew says, they are selling fists of Buicks and other auto's, the Camaro is just a blimp on their radar that is not too important.

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    A Horse With No Name
    32 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    We'll I can see why the Mustang is selling more than the Camaro. They are advertising more.

    Ford-Mustang-China-Print-Ad.jpg

    I was unable to really find any advertising and had to resort to searching for Camaro in China and finally found this.

    2017-camaro-camaro-costs-58125-in-china_1.jpg

    So yes, FORD would sell more mustangs than Camaro as GM is doing what they always seem to do, piss poor marketing of a product. But then as Drew says, they are selling fists of Buicks and other auto's, the Camaro is just a blimp on their radar that is not too important.

    Mustang is also much more existentially central to Ford's identity than Camaro is to GM's.  Ford, you think of the F150 and the Mustang.  GM, you think of a whole bunch of different products.

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