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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Muscle Car Wars Find A New Battleground In China

      The Camaro and Mustang fights expands into China

    The rivalry of the Chevrolet Camaro and Ford Mustang has been going for ages in the U.S. But now this fight has expanded into China.

    Automotive News reports that a growing group of Chinese buyers are being drawn towards to these models as the exude the no-apologies Americana attitude.

    "We're seeing the beginning of a muscle car culture here. Something that is uniquely American appeals to the Chinese consumer. The image that it relays to the automotive public is very positive," said James Chao, a China market auto analyst with IHS Markit.

    Sales of both models are small with Chevrolet only moving 2,000 Camaros since its launch 2011. Ford is doing slightly better with 6,200 Mustangs sold since its launch in 2015. In the first quarter, Mustang sales saw a 90 percent increase to 963 vehicles. Part of the reason for the slow sales comes down to the price. The Camaro starts about 399,900 yuan (about $58,000) - more than double of the base price of $26,900 in the U.S. The Mustang isn't that far behind, costing about $15 dollars less. Prices are increased due to a 25 percent import tariff on U.S. made vehicles, homologation and shipping fees, and Chinese buyers trending to splurge on higher-time models.

    But despite the low sales, the Camaro and Mustang are bringing buyers to dealers. These models act as eye candy to help draw shoppers into showrooms with the hope they'll purchase a vehicle, where it be the eye candy or something a little less exciting.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    Interesting. Another market, though extremely tiny, but nonetheless, where the Mustang is taking to the Camaro.

    And then there is this...

    " Prices are increased due to a 25 percent import tariff on U.S. made vehicles ". 

     

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    With a 10% Plugin Hybrid / EV sales level for 2018 on 2019 models. It will be interesting to see what all the auto companies do for China next year.

    Here people thought CARB and EPA were tough.

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I'm not sure GM was even trying with the Camaro over there.... leaving it with limited importation due to cost.  It was a big deal that they even imported the Enclave over there.

    I'm not sure Ford is trying with the Mustang over there either. 

    I believe if either auto assembler was, they'd be utilizing one of their joint ventures that China demands for assembly instead of the current format they both use

    Mustang has only been selling there for 2yrs, Camaro over 5yrs, yet the Mustang in relation is stomping the hell out of it.

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    Camaro was busy stomping on the Mustang here in the US during 4 of those 5 years.  

    GM's more interested in growing Buick and Cadillac.  Buick is a huge money maker for them over there where they can sell re-badged Daewoos at the low end for big markups and charge Benz like prices for the Encore and the GL8. Buick has been a prestige brand since the last time China had an Emperor.  Where is Lincoln?  Just getting started

    Let's compare numbers....

    During March the Ford sold 90,457 units, down biggly.

    General Motors delivered a March record of 345,448 vehicles

    GM sold 2.5 times as many Envisions as Ford sold Mustangs. 

    GM sold nearly as many Buicks in China (88,519) than Ford sold vehicles of any brand and any size.

    Chevy just isn't one of the bigger brands for GM in China. They use their other brands there.... so it's not a big surprise that Camaro sales are low.

    In the end, I'm not really all that concerned about Camaro or Mustang sales in China... as the original article implies, muscle cars (or more properly, pony cars?) have never been a big deal to the Chinese, so the sales of these two cars there is a relatively new phenomenon. The Chinese go for big, soft luxury... being chauffeur driven has been the prestige there.  Hard to have a chauffeur with a Camaro or Mustang.

     

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    4 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

     " Camaro was busy stomping on the Mustang here in the US during 4 of those 5 years. "

    That was 99% due to the new factor for the Camaro. 

     

    Does that kind of excuse work in China? You yourself said that the Camaro has been selling there since 2011.... the Mustang is new.

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    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Does that kind of excuse work in China? You yourself said that the Camaro has been selling there since 2011.... the Mustang is new.

    When the new Mustang came out, it took the Camaro by the throat again..

    The Camaro is once agian new, and getting its ass kicked here

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    Just now, FordCosworth said:

    When the new Mustang came out, it took the Camaro by the throat again..

    The Camaro is once agian new, and getting its ass kicked here

    The Mustang is getting it's ass kicked by a mommyvan. 

    Again, Chevrolet is not GM's brand of choice there, Buick, Cadillac, and Wuling, and Baojun are.   Wuling and Baojun sell over 1.5m vehicles annually. Buick adds another million.

    Those three brands alone are 2.5 million units annually.  That's 208,333 cars a month from just three brands... add to that GM also has Cadillac, Chevrolet, and some other China-only brands as well (Opel is/was there for some reason)

    Ford isn't even in the 6 digit per month figure.

    GM has 4 cars in the Top Selling Cars in China list.

    Ford has zero.

     

    But Mustang beat Camaro.... so... :retard:

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    10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Mustang is getting it's ass kicked by a mommyvan. 

    Not sure what the point of that comparison is.

    Mustang outsells Camaro

    -"Yeah well, Camry out sells Mustang.  :P

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    7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Not sure what the point of that comparison is.

    Mustang outsells Camaro

    -"Yeah well, Camry out sells Mustang.  :P

    The main point is the perspective of the bigger picture.... inside of that, there are multiple points.  One is that Chevrolet is not as big priority for GM in China. Chevy still needs to perform, but it's not make or break.  Ford brand is literally all Ford has in China at this point... Lincoln is just barely getting started and Ford has no other brand partners like GM does. The second point is that sports cars have never been a Chinese priority, posh chauffeur driven sedans and MPVs are, so I can't really fault GM for not putting any effort there.  I can certainly fault Lincoln for only joining the market in 2014. Mustang outsold Camaro in China.... yippie.... GM sold 3.8 times as many vehicles as Ford did in China.  

    Lincoln sold 32,588 cars in China in 2016.  

    Cadillac (which isn't even doing that well in China compared to Benz or Audi) does that in 2 months.

    Buick does that every 2.5 weeks. 

    I'm sure Mary Barra is crying over the 310 units per month she's losing out to Mustang sales.  Really.... three hundred and ten vehicles per month in a country of 1.37 billion people is what @FordCosworth is tap dancing over.  Perspective.

    Unfortunately, this story is a molehill that a giant mountain has been made from.

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    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Mustang outsold Camaro in China.... yippie.... GM sold 3.8 times as many vehicles as Ford did in China.  

    Yeah and neither sales totals were significant(Mustang/Camaro).

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    13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Exactly. 

    Sales are an interesting thing to talk about but they're lame as F to use as "leverage" in an argument. Real enthusiasts don't even care about sales they're just using them in "fights". Whatever gets the companies to make their products better every year for us consumers is a win.

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    19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Sales are an interesting thing to talk about but they're lame as F to use as "leverage" in an argument. Real enthusiasts don't even care about sales they're just using them in "fights". Whatever gets the companies to make their products better every year for us consumers is a win.

    ;) Sounds like something we would be debating with SMK.

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    4 hours ago, FordCosworth said:

    Interesting. Another market, though extremely tiny, but nonetheless, where the Mustang is taking to the Camaro.

    And then there is this...

    " Prices are increased due to a 25 percent import tariff on U.S. made vehicles ". 

     

    I dont think I need an explanation why I down voted...

    And If I did give you one, William would give me another 2 points for abusive behavior for calling a spade a spade...

     

    But I did give a +1 to the poster who best explains my thoughts.
     

    Quote

     

    Sales are an interesting thing to talk about but they're lame as F to use as "leverage" in an argument. Real enthusiasts don't even care about sales they're just using them in "fights".


     

    His way though is a more political correct way of going about it.

    I dont do P.C.

    Heads up....you'd get plusieurs down votes today!!! I only get one...why?

    Again...your behavior and you playing coy!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I dont think I need an explanation why I down voted...

    And If I did give you one, William would give me another 2 points for abusive behavior for calling a spade a spade...

    A little ironic then.. can't keep it PG to explain but can hand out votes. Don't expect explanations when somebody downvotes you then.

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    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    A little ironic then.. can't keep it PG to explain but can hand out votes. Don't expect explanations when somebody downvotes you then.

    CCAP....you got the +1 vote....

    But then again....you jumped the gun on me...read the edited version....

     

    But it seems like you want to know why I gave him a -1?

    HE IS A TROLL!!!
    HE IS A FORD SHILL!

    IF I GET ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR WARNINGS, ITS ON YOU!!!

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    3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    CCAP....you got the +1 vote....

    But then again....you jumped the gun on me...read the edited version....

     

    But it seems like you want to know why I gave him a -1?

    HE IS A TROLL!!!
    HE IS A FORD SHILL!

    IF I GET ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR WARNINGS, ITS ON YOU!!!

    Rather upsetting and quite sad when an adult blames their behavior on someone else.

     

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    12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    CCAP....you got the +1 vote....

    But then again....you jumped the gun on me...read the edited version....

     

    But it seems like you want to know why I gave him a -1?

    HE IS A TROLL!!!
    HE IS A FORD SHILL!

    IF I GET ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR WARNINGS, ITS ON YOU!!!

    Personally, I don't care why you gave anybody a -1. But you don't like it when somebody gives you one w/o an explanation.

    Hahaha I'll take the blame!

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