Quiet Flight 2040, The New Luxury Lincoln of the 21st Century

I like the direction this is going. 

58 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I like the direction this is going. 

Agree, I think they have some Luxury Auto Executives that see the Future and realize they can take it to the next level of Luxury Quiet Flight!

51 minutes ago, David said:

Agree, I think they have some Luxury Auto Executives that see the Future and realize they can take it to the next level of Luxury Quiet Flight!

Hell yes. 

OMG…

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Hell yes. 

Amazing to compare the current 2020 Navigator to the 2020 GLS and truly Navigator wins.

Exterior, Lincoln truly looks more Luxurious.

Interior, this is a tie in my book, both truly have a luxury look.

GLS from the outside looks like a $40K SUV… tops. This looks twice as expensive: 
 

33 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OMG…

In regards to the concepts or the DNA idea, GLS, Please expand your thinking. 

🤔

I would think you would like the 2 person sports coupe at least. Very flowing design in my book.

• Can you imagine dealing with that blooming onion of corporate bullshit as a designer?? Holy crap.

• Don't care for the 'Neo-classic' coupe proportions above; they're largely terrible, not remotely production-possible and it's riding like a Jeep. This is not a future for Lincoln (or anyone).

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• Can you imagine dealing with that blooming onion of corporate bullshit as a designer?? Holy crap.

• Don't care for the 'Neo-classic' coupe proportions above; they're largely terrible, not remotely production-possible and it's riding like a Jeep. This is not a future for Lincoln (or anyone).

Yup, sure can since I deal with it every day in my job. Just another day at work. LOL

I actually like the Coupe they proposed, I like the sweep to it and proportions. To me very sexy and luxury all in one.

I pity you if you get the same sort of amorphous, new-age, 'envision the reimagined future' garbage as prattled on about in the first video above. 

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

I pity you if you get the same sort of amorphous, new-age, 'envision the reimagined future' garbage as prattled on about in the first video above. 

It’s called “everyone has different tastes”. 

Coupe will probably never happen, maybe Lincoln gets 1 sedan.  If Lincoln had 5 SUVs and 1 sedan, the sedan would likely be the lowest seller, so the product planning people probably won’t green light a sedan unless they play to grow how many vehicles they have.  You could still do a SUV below Corsair and it would outsell any sedan, they can go above Navigator with an SUV and turn better profit than a sedan.  
 

I like sedans but most car companies don’t sadly.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Coupe will probably never happen, maybe Lincoln gets 1 sedan.  If Lincoln had 5 SUVs and 1 sedan, the sedan would likely be the lowest seller, so the product planning people probably won’t green light a sedan unless they play to grow how many vehicles they have.  You could still do a SUV below Corsair and it would outsell any sedan, they can go above Navigator with an SUV and turn better profit than a sedan.  
 

I like sedans but most car companies don’t sadly.  

We know that the 4 door Zephyr BEV is coming for the brand as well as a complete series of SUVs. Once that gets done, I can see a two person coupe being done as the global platform will make it easier to offer than under ICE.

Also as Lincoln has stated, they are looking to be a profitable luxury division for those wanting the best, not a mass market for everyone brand.

They are hitting the right notes as people are buying and increasing their market share at the expense of competition.

1 hour ago, David said:

We know that the 4 door Zephyr BEV is coming for the brand as well as a complete series of SUVs. Once that gets done, I can see a two person coupe being done as the global platform will make it easier to offer than under ICE.

Also as Lincoln has stated, they are looking to be a profitable luxury division for those wanting the best, not a mass market for everyone brand.

They are hitting the right notes as people are buying and increasing their market share at the expense of competition.

Coupes won’t make money though, unless it has Porsche 911 pricing scheme.  
 

If the Zephyr works really well then maybe and that’s a big maybe.  I think Zypher will go about as well as Continental did.  Also the Mustang was the worst selling Ford last quarter not counting discontinued stuff like Fusion or Focus.  Coupes are a hard business unless you have global footprint for volume and/or share the cost like Supra and Z4.

1 hour ago, David said:

I can see a two person coupe being done as the global platform will make it easier to offer than under IC

How do you figure? IC or BE can go into multiple vehicles... the body construction and all the unique parts is what makes the bulk of a 'Lincoln swoopy coupe' production costs; it's no "easier' and just as expensive to build. The issue isn't motive power, it's the on-life-support coupe market.

Very interesting…….

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

How do you figure? IC or BE can go into multiple vehicles... the body construction and all the unique parts is what makes the bulk of a 'Lincoln swoopy coupe' production costs; it's no "easier' and just as expensive to build. The issue isn't motive power, it's the on-life-support coupe market.

Yep.  I am thinking of a convertible as my next car since I don’t use my back seat and if not now, when, because  by 2030 there won’t be any 2 door cars left.  Which will also raise prices of used convertibles.  

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Coupes won’t make money though, unless it has Porsche 911 pricing scheme.  
 

If the Zephyr works really well then maybe and that’s a big maybe.  I think Zypher will go about as well as Continental did.  Also the Mustang was the worst selling Ford last quarter not counting discontinued stuff like Fusion or Focus.  Coupes are a hard business unless you have global footprint for volume and/or share the cost like Supra and Z4.

Wrong, as a skateboard platform, it is much easier to build a coupe off the same skateboard platform and still make money on a limited production version.

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

How do you figure? IC or BE can go into multiple vehicles... the body construction and all the unique parts is what makes the bulk of a 'Lincoln swoopy coupe' production costs; it's no "easier' and just as expensive to build. The issue isn't motive power, it's the on-life-support coupe market.

Ford is using a skateboard platform and with them also in partnership with VW using the MEB global skateboard platform they should be able to build a luxury coupe or 4 door sedan on the same skateboard.

As we have all discussed, ATP on a limited production version that appeals to a limited market I can see as being very successful for Lincoln once their 4 door Zephyr sedan and SUV portfolio is out.

4 hours ago, David said:

it is much easier to build a coupe off the same skateboard platform

Cost comparison data?

53 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Cost comparison data?

Have no ide on actual cost at this time, but common sense of an engineering skateboard platform is that the auto bolting onto the skateboard is easier to have various body options than today's ICE design. That is the benefit of skateboard platform that has motors, battery pack and basic connectors is the ability to bolt on different carriages to the skateboard for more options.

So; you're assuming.  

That assumption flies in the face of the mass movement away from BOF to unibody construction, which was done industry-wide to save on manufacturing costs.

There's still going to be differences in the platform for a coupe vs. a 3-row SUV, etc. Suspension, width, length, strength... it's not like the old days when they'd bolt a 2-dr sedan / 2-dr hardtop, 4-dr sedan, 4-dr hardtop, convertible and wagon to the same frame ('platform'); OEMs don't hardly build multiple bodies on the same platform anymore (sadly).

Like I alluded to; the skateboard MAY be amortized over more than one model, spreading out its costs. I get that. But the coupe body, interior, electronics (a chunk of), glass, etc would all be unique. With the super low sales of coupes, I would not be sure the skateboards amortization would support the cost of the coupe body dies, material costs, R&D, certification, etc etc vs. it's likely super low production. 

21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So; you're assuming.  

That assumption flies in the face of the mass movement away from BOF to unibody construction, which was done industry-wide to save on manufacturing costs.

There's still going to be differences in the platform for a coupe vs. a 3-row SUV, etc. Suspension, width, length, strength... it's not like the old days when they'd bolt a 2-dr sedan / 2-dr hardtop, 4-dr sedan, 4-dr hardtop, convertible and wagon to the same frame ('platform'); OEMs don't hardly build multiple bodies on the same platform anymore (sadly).

Like I alluded to; the skateboard MAY be amortized over more than one model, spreading out its costs. I get that. But the coupe body, interior, electronics (a chunk of), glass, etc would all be unique. With the super low sales of coupes, I would not be sure the skateboards amortization would support the cost of the coupe body dies, material costs, R&D, certification, etc etc vs. it's likely super low production. 

I am thinking that with the long hood and sloping rear deck, it would be the same skateboard as the Zephyr and so you would have that lovely long coupe auto.

Re-read my post.

Still have to stamp all the metal for a coupe body, have unique parts for lights, bumpers, grill, seats and interior probably won’t come from another vehicle so need to develop that too.  Hard to make money on a low volume car that isn’t expensive.  
 

Could be possible that Lincoln will build a coupe even if they lose money on it just to have a halo product.

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Still have to stamp all the metal for a coupe body, have unique parts for lights, bumpers, grill, seats and interior probably won’t come from another vehicle so need to develop that too.  Hard to make money on a low volume car that isn’t expensive.  
 

Could be possible that Lincoln will build a coupe even if they lose money on it just to have a halo product.

So then you are admitting that MB looses money on all their coupes since they are all low volume auto's with non-standard parts. Got it!

12 hours ago, David said:

So then you are admitting that MB looses money on all their coupes since they are all low volume auto's with non-standard parts. Got it!

Mercedes volume is way higher than Lincoln, Mercedes coupes are mostly high dollar or something like a C-class that is a re-bodied high volume sedan.  Also Mercedes dropped SLC, S-class coupe/convertible and the C and E class coupe and convertible ate going to get merged into a CLE I assume similar to how the CLK was.  They will have CLE, SL and GT as their 2-door offerings because the market just doesn’t support more than that.