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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    Mercedes-AMG Models Endangered in EU

      ...could cut models by 75%...

    New European carbon emissions rules are coming into effect soon and that will have a negative effect on models from a number of manufacturers.  Mercedes-AMG is known for its high-output vehicles, but that also generally makes them more polluting as well. 

    Mercedes wants to cut its CO2 emissions from the current 138 grams per kilometer to 100 grams per kilometer. This would hit its most powerful models the hardest.  In the overall European market, 35 percent of new vehicles sold are sport utility vehicles which generally have higher emissions than cars.  Customers' appetite for SUVs could force Mercedes to cut their AMG variants offered by up to 75%.  AMG will attempt to get around some of these cuts by introducing electrification in more of its vehicles, however, engine downsizing seems to be in play here as well. 

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    Correct; 2.7L.

    Ram's V6 e-torque adds 12 HP and 39 TRQ. I added that much [15/35] to my old F-150 300 I-6 via a chip and I can attest from experience; you cannot discern that little of a power bump. Ie-Torque also ADDS 105 lbs, lessening the benefit. Besides, the Ram e-torque 3.6 still has less HP & TRQ than the Chevy 2.7T  [305/269 vs. 310/348]. Hell, the Ram is no better than the Chevy 4.3 V6 [285/305].

    Know what I think? People should buy the 5.3L [355/383].

    Edited by balthazar
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    13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    GM and engine downsizing don't really go hand in hand.  I think Daimler and VW (outside of Tesla) are best equipped to meet the MPG standards, CO2 emission regulations, etc that all these countries put out and the fuel economy and power that customers demand.  They both see the future and have the resources and engineering to do it.

    AMG is still going to have the V8 at the top end until they go pure EV sometime in the 2030s, but they can easily replace 3 liter   V6s with 2 liter 4's, replace some V8s with 3 liter inline sixes and they already said the next C63 and S63 are plug-in hybrids, so they can take care of emissions and fuel economy and not lose any performance.

    Rightttttttttttttttt

    You seem to forget that GM is the company that created the skateboard EV concept way before any of these other companies. MB has followed GM in so many ways and while they have surpassed them in the last 20 years or so due to poor mgmt. and leadership with the product lines, there is much MB still lags behind in. Where is all the EV tech from MB as we have not seen anything that is ground breaking. MB followed GM with bringing out an EV auto on a skateboard platform 20 years after GM created the concept. Hydrogen auto's again behind GM, Hybrids again behind GM. The list is long and distinguished on how BEHIND MB has been, a FOLLOWER to bleeding edge tech!

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    9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Rightttttttttttttttt

    You seem to forget that GM is the company that created the skateboard EV concept way before any of these other companies. MB has followed GM in so many ways and while they have surpassed them in the last 20 years or so due to poor mgmt. and leadership with the product lines, there is much MB still lags behind in. Where is all the EV tech from MB as we have not seen anything that is ground breaking. MB followed GM with bringing out an EV auto on a skateboard platform 20 years after GM created the concept. Hydrogen auto's again behind GM, Hybrids again behind GM. The list is long and distinguished on how BEHIND MB has been, a FOLLOWER to bleeding edge tech!

    The problem is GM invents stuff but does nothing with it.... they came up with that skateboard platform and didn't do anything with it due to their incompetent leadership.. 

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    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    The problem is GM invents stuff but does nothing with it.... they came up with that skateboard platform and didn't do anything with it due to their incompetent leadership.. 

    Yes that is very true, Lucky it seems Mary is willing to push that direction. the next 5 years should prove interesting to see if she does really reinvent GM or is just playing politics internally.

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    The business case looks weak because gas is about $2.50/gallon.  No need to rush things, but GM has to keep developing tech AND release product to compete with Tesla, whether it is in the USA or China.

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    The business case for EVs is still extremely weak. Or is rushing into a manufacturing scenario where you continually lose money now ‘competence’? 

    Bigger question to ask is how many people are just waiting for GM, Ford, FCA, etc to bring out the EV Trucks and SUVs to buy as they want to reduce the amount of maintenance an ICE auto requires.

    Here in the growth of High Tech Seattle, many folks are driving much older auto's awaiting electric options that they like. Plus with houses pretty much having 220 chargers in the garages as mandated by the state as well as Apartments and businesses plus all the rest stops from Vancouver BC to Baha California one can easily do road trips, I get it that for some of you here you refuse to wait for the charge time on top of the cost. But early adopters like doing other things and for me, I see no reason when you stop for a 1hr lunch to not charge to full the auto then.

    As @Drew Dowdell has pointed out for all things plug in, it is a change of habits and an adjustment to life style where you plug in at night when you come home and start full in the morning compared to running out to the gas station.

    Change is good, but not always easy for everyone and I get that there can be many points made against any technology and any change.

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    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Bigger question to ask is how many people are just waiting for GM, Ford, FCA, etc to bring out the EV Trucks and SUVs to buy as they want to reduce the amount of maintenance an ICE auto

    About 5% of the market, maybe 6.

    I see no reason when you stop for a 1hr lunch to not charge to full the auto...


    I for one like lunch to last for no more than 10 mins. Got stuff to do. Dont most businesses give employees 45 or 60 mins at the most? By the time you buzz to the charger station, hopefully find an empty charger, AND drive back, you’re not getting an hour’s juice.

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    32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    About 5% of the market, maybe 6.

     


    I for one like lunch to last for no more than 10 mins. Got stuff to do. Don't most businesses give employees 45 or 60 mins at the most? By the time you buzz to the charger station, hopefully find an empty charger, AND drive back, you’re not getting an hour’s juice.

    Here every business is required to have dedicated charging spots at work, but also at restaurants. As such, stopping at a place to sit down, you pull into one of the charging sports, plug in and go eat. I get the west coast is far more EV friendly than the east coast as such you are correct that you would not get a full 1hr charge if your having to find a charging place. In time more I am sure will get installed making it easier.

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    But 'here' is one city, not the country at large. Anecdotal.

    What if you bring lunch/eat at your desk due to either preference or job dictates? 

    Here's the chargers near me:
    • Tesla, 8 chargers at a lone Panera Bread.
    • nissan dealer, for nissan leaf, 2 different plugs, no food within walking.
    • hyndai dealer, 1 type of plug, McD & BK a 1/4 mile away.
    • kia dealer, 1 charger, must get dealer permission to charge, some food about a 1/2 mile away.
    • Ford dealer, 1 charger, Fords only, a few places within a mile of walking.
    • Turnpike plaza (if you want to pay to use Turnpike and deal with the 180 to get back to work), I'm sure the usual fast food is there. Has 2 different plugs there, nissans charge free.
    • a college parking deck I'm pretty positive you have to pay to get into. Recommended you stay with your car or risk getting towed, deck gates only stay open on weekends. I believe it'd be a dozen blocks to the college grease trucks but don't know it they're there on weekends.
    • township building, dual station, open 7Am to 11PM 7 days, no food within walking.

    Just sounds like a major pain in the ass to deal with, and it seems the 'unicorn scenarios' where you drive right up to an unoccupied charger and walk 100' to a appealing food source, doesn't exist around here.

    I know; anecdotal. ;)

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    19 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Correct; 2.7L.

    Ram's V6 e-torque adds 12 HP and 39 TRQ. I added that much [15/35] to my old F-150 300 I-6 via a chip and I can attest from experience; you cannot discern that little of a power bump. Ie-Torque also ADDS 105 lbs, lessening the benefit. Besides, the Ram e-torque 3.6 still has less HP & TRQ than the Chevy 2.7T  [305/269 vs. 310/348]. Hell, the Ram is no better than the Chevy 4.3 V6 [285/305].

    Know what I think? People should buy the 5.3L [355/383].

    The Ram 3.6 V6 is rated a combined 4 mpg higher than the Chevy 4.3 V6.  The Ram V6 is also rated 1 mpg higher than the Chevy turbo 4.  So there must be some benefit, the Ram gets better gas mileage.

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    The thing with EV charging is you do it at home every night, so you don't spend 10 minutes per week at a gas station.  An EV saves you 520 minutes per year not standing at a gas station.  Then it saves you more time for needing less maintenance, fewer oil changes, less brake pad changes, etc.  If the trade off for that is having to spend an hour at a super charger the one time a year you decide to drive 500-600 miles in a day, then so be it.

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    Maybe 5 minutes just to fill a tank, but you still have to pull in, park, pay inside if you don't at the pump, maybe that gas station is not on your exact route that day so you to go a bit out of the way to get to the gas station.  I just figured 10 minutes is a good average amount of time out of the day if you had to go to a gas station.

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    6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The thing with EV charging is you do it at home every night, so you don't spend 10 minutes per week at a gas station.  An EV saves you 520 minutes per year not standing at a gas station.  Then it saves you more time for needing less maintenance, fewer oil changes, less brake pad changes, etc.  

    EV have brakes also, so you still have to do those.  And who spends 10 minutes at a gas station?  If there is a line, maybe...normally, pull up, pay at the pump, fill up, pull out..less than 5 min (every two weeks in my case).

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    47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Ram 3.6 V6 is rated a combined 4 mpg higher than the Chevy 4.3 V6.  The Ram V6 is also rated 1 mpg higher than the Chevy turbo 4.  So there must be some benefit, the Ram gets better gas mileage.

    I’m seeing the 2.7L rated the same 20 mpg city as the Ram 3.6., with better power, so for those who value that combo- get the 2.7T.

    Ah- I read ‘10 mins to charge’, not fuel. 5-10 mins total is reasonable, but obviously 10 mins to charge does nothing.

    Edited by balthazar
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    I gassed up today. Not quite empty like I usually do, I had around 20 miles left as per the car computer. 

    It took 3-4 minutes for the pump to go gloo gloo gloo up to the brim and at least 1 -2 minutes to pay.  So yeah...about 5 minutes sounds about right.   But today though, I had to wait in line to use the pump so about another 5 minutes went by.  So 10 minutes in total. But usually though....5 minutes. 

    Ive used that same pump before though, and at least 3 times in the past, it actually seemed like an eternity to fill up. ONly at that particular pump in that particular gas station.  Im guessing 8-10 minutes to go from empty empty to full full...    

    SMK's story is very plausible though. We shouldn't question his numbers because sometimes it will take us 5 minutes to gas up while other times it may take 10.

    Over the holidays I had to wait 15 minutes to pay because one old man wanted to buy a ton of lottery tickets along with his gas.  My fault though as I could have paid with my bank card/credit card at the pump without having to go inside to pay...     I dont do that...lots of fraud with that where I live. So always cash it is when gassing up for me...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It also takes time to drive to the gas station, and exit the gas station.  And in winter you stand in the cold pumping gas.

    Yeah, but going to the gas station is not generally something you make a special trip to do, unless you are really bored.... I always fill up at the same station on the main road outside my subdivision, so it's just a stop while on my way somewhere else, no different than going through the bank drive-thru down the same street.   And standing in the cold is no big deal, I dress for winter weather.    Getting gas is not a big deal that some make out to be, just one of those little tasks in life.    Not a big deal either when out of town on a road trip either, gas stations are abundant...

    Having to plug in an EV in my garage after a drive would be simpler in theory, but the problem is remembering to do it.  

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    33 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    But are they automatic? Is it something the driver would have to turn on...

    I always assumed automatic, same way a phone can wireless charge.

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    Getting gas is not a big deal that some make out to be, just one of those little tasks in life.    Not a big deal either when out of town on a road trip either, gas stations are abundant...

    Having to plug in an EV in my garage after a drive would be simpler in theory, but the problem is remembering to do it

    Im assuming, that you dont forget to gas up. Im assuming, the majority of the folk that drive gas and diesel powered cars, do not, for the most part, forget to gas up. 

    Why would plugging in an EV car be any different?  

    It will become just one of those little tasks in life when owning an EV...

    Cell phones have been a common commodity since the mid 1980s. Exploded unto the scene since the 1990s. 

    Laptops have a similar timeline to cell phones and along with tablets...also require to plug in.

    Today, we charge headphones, drills, electric mowers, grass trimmers....toothbrushes....

    Like gasoline and diesel cars, EVs, cell phones, tablets, PCs all have a gauge to tell us that gasoline or battery power is low and it may be time to fuel up or power up and recharge.  In all honesty, anyone forgetting to fuel up or recharge may be a dummy in my eyes...

    If getting gas is no big deal, then plugging in at the comfort of your own home, should not be a big deal either...if anything, its less of a hassle than to drive to a gas station to fill up.   Not in theory, but in reality.   And one does not need to experience an EV for one to come to that conclusion either. One could easily see that advantage a mile away. 

    If one gets a wireless charging station at home....by God...there is really nothing to do but to drive to your parking spot in just the right spot so the magnetic coils in the charger align with the magnetic coils in the car and voila...hands free...like everything else we like in today's lazy world.  

    Like you, I only gas up every 14 days or so, give or take a day or two, and the gas station is along my drive,  but even with that,  Id rather not stop and gas up....Id rather plug in at home. Yes....Im one of those lazy folk I just bitched about in the previous paragraph. 

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