Rumorpile: Tesla To Halt Model 3 Production for Six Days

Robots are not the only problem, I would clearly point out the extensive multi panel pieces of the body of the car and the extensive manual assembly of key components. Clearly Tesla needs to also listen to what the rest of the auto industry has already figured out on how to build the body and other key components to quickly assemble their auto's.

The Model X is selling like gangbusters around here now.  I would never want falcon doors.  I've seen one model 3 on the road.  It's smaller size is noticeable and also it has far less presence than the S.  Looks more like an average small - midsize car that's a combination of 90's design and space age design.

Arrogance leads to lessons hard learned.  

I mean, it's not like efficient car assembly is a 'new' thing.  We've only been at it for 110 years

6 hours ago, Miradart said:

Arrogance leads to lessons hard learned.  

I mean, it's not like efficient car assembly is a 'new' thing.  We've only been at it for 110 years

Musk Arrogance can also lead to the collapse of a company. I totally agree, why re-invent the wheel especially when one thinks software development can be used for manufacturing of an auto. Arrogant big time he is.

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Musk Arrogance can also lead to the collapse of a company. I totally agree, why re-invent the wheel especially when one thinks software development can be used for manufacturing of an auto. Arrogant big time he is.

His arrogance and relentless drive is what made Tesla a company that got all main manufacturers take a notice and try to catch up to Tesla in the EV field.  He has pushed way more boundaries with Tesla and SpaceX than anybody else on the planet.

1 hour ago, ykX said:

His arrogance and relentless drive is what made Tesla a company that got all main manufacturers take a notice and try to catch up to Tesla in the EV field.  He has pushed way more boundaries with Tesla and SpaceX than anybody else on the planet.

Yes I would agree that his arrogance has allowed him to push boundaries, but then history is there to learn from and he clearly is not willing to learn from history as the company could have done so much more by looking at history to use what does work right and well in Manufacturing and still push the boundaries.

Right now arrogance is what also can cause the downfall and has of many powerful men and woman. Like life, moderation is still needed in all things.

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yes I would agree that his arrogance has allowed him to push boundaries, but then history is there to learn from and he clearly is not willing to learn from history as the company could have done so much more by looking at history to use what does work right and well in Manufacturing and still push the boundaries.

Right now arrogance is what also can cause the downfall and has of many powerful men and woman. Like life, moderation is still needed in all things.

Again, he got with Tesla and SpaceX by not following in foot steps of companies like Ford, GM, Boeing and Lockheed Martin.   You can't expect him to start now.  He is looking at how things were done before and want to do them in a completely different way.  He has been few time already on a brink of bankruptcy and failure but so far managed to pull out and advance further.  Will see if that trend will continue.

If he was in the car game just to be like everybody else he would have been pushed aside long ago. He's trying to improve the assembly process not just do what everybody else has done because it's worked.

Should there have been more testing ahead of time? YUP! But pushing boundaries is what's fantastic about Tesla. 

12 minutes ago, ykX said:

Again, he got with Tesla and SpaceX by not following in foot steps of companies like Ford, GM, Boeing and Lockheed Martin.   You can't expect him to start now.  He is looking at how things were done before and want to do them in a completely different way.  He has been few time already on a brink of bankruptcy and failure but so far managed to pull out and advance further.  Will see if that trend will continue.

I understand not following in the footsteps of existing auto companies. Yet that should not stop a person from also looking at what they did right and using it.

Deming and Drucker who were ignored by American auto companies and then went on to teach the Japanese how to build superior auto's and then the Germans have shown that some things once perfected should not be ignored.

Musk is a smart man in many things, but is stupid for ignoring the perfected auto assembly line system.

That is the point I am making as I would hope he continues to push the bleeding edge of all things EV auto and Space but also save money and time by using what has already been proven to work and then look to see how it can be done better.

Right now the Tesla 3 assembly line is a joke and the quality sucks. Facts not fiction based on clear tear downs of the car and the constant delays.

I hope they survive and yes they have made everyone else look at the EV auto. This does not mean he could not have also done way better if he used proven manufacturing processes. Current process of creating software is what he applied to building auto's and it does not work as software and hardware are two different beasts.

How is the auto assembly line perfect right now?  You honestly think there is zero room for improvement? That's the difference in a billionaire who's sent rockets to space and successfully landed back on earth and.. people stuck in their old ways. Ironically because you're such an advocate for future propulsion technologies yet want the same old assembly line. 

13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

How is the auto assembly line perfect right now?  You honestly think there is zero room for improvement? That's the difference in a billionaire who's sent rockets to space and successfully landed back on earth and.. people stuck in their old ways. Ironically because you're such an advocate for future propulsion technologies yet want the same old assembly line. 

No Assembly line is perfect, but what is there is a good starting point. Musk Arrogance has him go from an overkill of manual hand building to an attempt at full automation and no humans and Billions wasted. Even now he admits they went from using too many people to to many robots and not starting at a proper Alpha and Beta test of the assembly line.

This is His Error due to Ignorance and Arrogance. He believed even when people who worked for him said it would not work that he could take a software building approach and apply it to auto building. You cannot just make software updates on the fly in building a physical device.

If he had listened to those around him about the assembly line, Tesla 3 would probably already be at 5000 builds a week.

Right now they still have a hand built multiple module body that is taking way more time than it should to be built before it gets to the assembly line. Dies, testing and mass production are very solid and good.

This is where Musk should have started by using what the existing auto industry had already proven and built. Then take it to the next level of automation and superior building.

If you understood the history of Deming and Drucker and how they brought together one of the best JIT or known as Just in Time manufacturing systems at high quality assembly, you would understand why this is a FAILURE of Musks and why just not me but many others also point this out that he has cost billions more than needed if he had taking his technology of the EV auto and started assembling them on what is a proven production line process. Then take it to the next level.

Yes I believe one day we will have a fully automated assembly process that could allow you to plug in the details and have a car out hours later at the other end of the assembly line. But right now we are not there.

If GM had ever decided to go tit for tat with Tesla they could have pulled the trigger at any time and built direct competitors to them and exposed Tesla as the amateurs they are (at manufacturing).  For whatever reason GM and the other big marques have been dragging their feet getting into EV's full bore (I think its battery cost, charging network, the distraction of autonomous vehicles and CAFE, and oil influence) GM in particular at any moment they REALLY WANTED TO could come out with amazing EV's that would define the industry and relegate Tesla to the scrap heap pretty darn fast.

That's another topic though, and I believe GM under Barra has become far too like many other companies these days far too engaged in marketing, social media, politics, etc.   

^ Sometimes I have no idea what channel you're on, Reg.

i could say the same for you

On 5/19/2018 at 2:49 PM, regfootball said:

If GM had ever decided to go tit for tat with Tesla they could have pulled the trigger at any time and built direct competitors to them and exposed Tesla as the amateurs they are (at manufacturing).  For whatever reason GM and the other big marques have been dragging their feet getting into EV's full bore (I think its battery cost, charging network, the distraction of autonomous vehicles and CAFE, and oil influence) GM in particular at any moment they REALLY WANTED TO could come out with amazing EV's that would define the industry and relegate Tesla to the scrap heap pretty darn fast.

That's another topic though, and I believe GM under Barra has become far too like many other companies these days far too engaged in marketing, social media, politics, etc.   

I think this statement is more of a wishful thinking than reality.

Despite of all the issues with Tesla most major automakers are scrambling trying to CATCH UP to Tesla.  Also, I am starting to see more and more Teslas around, saw few model 3 already as well (nice car, but damn that duck nose is ugly).

40 minutes ago, ykX said:

I think this statement is more of a wishful thinking than reality.

Despite of all the issues with Tesla most major automakers are scrambling trying to CATCH UP to Tesla.  Also, I am starting to see more and more Teslas around, saw few model 3 already as well (nice car, but damn that duck nose is ugly).

GM shocked the world with the Bolt. Some reason the Lady CEO that was willing to go crazy and show the world that GM could build a Great starting EV auto has now stepped back and we have heard and seen nothing of the 7 EV auto's that are supposed to be coming. Not even any concepts at NY. 

I truly think GM could very well go toe to toe with Tesla and even beat them as GM knows how to assemble auto's.

18 minutes ago, dfelt said:

GM shocked the world with the Bolt.

I am sorry, but saying that GM "shocked" the world with Bolt that came out in 2016 is a bit of overstatement to put it politely.  Absolutely nothing shocking about it.  Not saying that GM could not be a leader in electric vehicles, they have the resources, they started with EV1 which actually gave inspiration for Tesla, but as many times before they dropped the ball.

24 minutes ago, dfelt said:

GM shocked the world with the Bolt. Some reason the Lady CEO that was willing to go crazy and show the world that GM could build a Great starting EV auto has now stepped back and we have heard and seen nothing of the 7 EV auto's that are supposed to be coming. Not even any concepts at NY. 

I truly think GM could very well go toe to toe with Tesla and even beat them as GM knows how to assemble auto's.

EV1 , then no electrics, Volt, Bolt and then not much else.  Big leaps, then corporate pullback.  GM has decades of elec tech and is just not using it.

22 minutes ago, ykX said:

I am sorry, but saying that GM "shocked" the world with Bolt that came out in 2016 is a bit of overstatement to put it politely.  Absolutely nothing shocking about it.  Not saying that GM could not be a leader in electric vehicles, they have the resources, they started with EV1 which actually gave inspiration for Tesla, but as many times before they dropped the ball.

After the EV1 mess, GM with all the tech power they have truly dropped the ball and I agree with you there. Yet with that said, they did shock the world (I Believe) as no one expected the BOLT especially from GM after the bankruptcy. Getting it out as a real life, long distance auto compared to the Leaf again shocked the world and pushed Tesla faster into having to have the Tesla 3. 

GM seems to have dropped many chances to take products and lead the auto world. In this I think you and I are on the same page. How one defines being shocked and surprised by what a company does we seem to be on different pages.

I stand by my interpretation of the Bolt coming out on the Auto World.

8 hours ago, regfootball said:

EV1 , then no electrics, Volt, Bolt and then not much else.  Big leaps, then corporate pullback.  GM has decades of elec tech and is just not using it.

Except, OF COURSE, for the Volt & Bolt.

EV1 was a pilot lease program, not a production car. Perhaps it could have been put into production I believe (in no way am I up on it's specs/costs), but clearly the time was not right. There were a healthy bunch of fledgling EV cars since the '70s- ALL failures.

There is no "pullback" since the Volt came out, and the Bolt is irrefutable proof of that.

9 hours ago, regfootball said:

EV1 , then no electrics, Volt, Bolt and then not much else.  Big leaps, then corporate pullback.  GM has decades of elec tech and is just not using it.

That is because... BOOM!  NOBODY WANTS IT!

i think if GM had a tit for tat competitor for Tesla, say a really good looking sexy Cadillac with a killer all electric powertrain (not a CT6 stupid 4 cylinder plug in hybrid) at similar prices, the war would be on.

GM could easily morph the Bolt into something Tesla 3 sized with Bolt price. and it would sell like hotcakes.

Bolts a little small.  Something the size of the previous Equinox in a nice wrapper and all electric at Bolt plus some pricing would sell like hotcakes.

An all electric every day sedan like my Malibu (not volt sized) that was an affordable electric only with big range would sell like hotcakes.

How about a Fiero clone with a mid engine electric motor instead of gas?  I'd even bring back plastic panels.

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

i think if GM had a tit for tat competitor for Tesla, say a really good looking sexy Cadillac with a killer all electric powertrain (not a CT6 stupid 4 cylinder plug in hybrid) at similar prices, the war would be on.

GM could easily morph the Bolt into something Tesla 3 sized with Bolt price. and it would sell like hotcakes.

Bolts a little small.  Something the size of the previous Equinox in a nice wrapper and all electric at Bolt plus some pricing would sell like hotcakes.

An all electric every day sedan like my Malibu (not volt sized) that was an affordable electric only with big range would sell like hotcakes.

How about a Fiero clone with a mid engine electric motor instead of gas?  I'd even bring back plastic panels.

Electric Saturn Sky that would run circles around the petro Miata would be cool!  

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

An all electric every day sedan like my Malibu (not volt sized) that was an affordable electric only with big range would sell like hotcakes.

Perhaps, except NOBODY BUILDS SOMETHING LIKE THAT. And that includes the almighty Tesla.

so, as i am saying if someone built it they would be rewarded with sales.  

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Electric Saturn Sky that would run circles around the petro Miata would be cool!  

honestly man i had no idea someone beat me to the idea!

https://jalopnik.com/this-fiero-is-the-electric-sports-car-you-should-buy-ri-1823494520

http://www.thedrive.com/news/19011/ebay-gives-you-a-chance-at-an-electric-fiero

On 5/19/2018 at 1:49 PM, regfootball said:

That's another topic though, and I believe GM under Barra has become far too like many other companies these days far too engaged in marketing, social media, politics, etc.   

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-gets-ready-post-car-103018990.html

articles like this are just to condition future generations not to believe they can have their own transportation device or be able to control when they come and go.    "post car" future. i.e. we will make it more and more expensive and regulated to have your own car, and we will make it autonomous so you don't have as much control of it.  and so if you want your very own car, and want to drive it yourself we will just tax the crap out of it and make it horrendously expensive for those who can afford it.  

Just my tinfoil take on this, but GM IMO is ignoring the here and now as far as the market to concern themselves with all the what if future stuff. 

11 hours ago, regfootball said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-gets-ready-post-car-103018990.html

articles like this are just to condition future generations not to believe they can have their own transportation device or be able to control when they come and go.    "post car" future. i.e. we will make it more and more expensive and regulated to have your own car, and we will make it autonomous so you don't have as much control of it.  and so if you want your very own car, and want to drive it yourself we will just tax the crap out of it and make it horrendously expensive for those who can afford it.  

Just my tinfoil take on this, but GM IMO is ignoring the here and now as far as the market to concern themselves with all the what if future stuff. 

 

I take this story with a grain of Salt. Yes it is expected that as a country matures and things get more expensive you have a limit on how many people can afford to buy and do things. China is the new market with millions every year buying more auto's and growing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233743/vehicle-sales-in-china/

From 6.76 million auto's sold in 2008 to 24.72 million sold last year. They are on pace to sell close to 30 million this year in a country of 1.6 billion people.

China the Future Growth engine of GM.