Jump to content
  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Toyota Double Downs Investment On Hydrogen

      Continuing the hydrogen dream

    Toyota is planning a big push with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. According to Reuters, the Japanese automaker is doubling-down on investments for fuel cell vehicles by making improvements to reduce costs and building different models including commercial trucks.

    “We’re going to shift from limited production to mass production, reduce the amount of expensive materials like platinum used in FCV components, and make the system more compact and powerful,” said Yoshikazu Tanaka, chief engineer of the Mirai.

    Currently, Toyota hand builds the Mirai at a plant in Toyota City. Everyday, about 6.5 cars roll out of the plant. This is due to the detailed inspections that partially assembled models go through. The parts comprising the Mirai are quite expensive as well. According to analysis done by Strategic Analysis Inc., it costs Toyota about $11,000 to produce each of the fuel cell stacks. Blame the use of the platinum, titanium, and carbon fiber for the stacks.

    Toyota has been building up production capacity as it expects sales of FCVs to increase from about 3,000 to over 20,000 after 2020. This will help reduce the cost of each fuel cell stack to $8,000.

    “It will be difficult for Toyota to lower FCV production costs if it only produces the Mirai,” said a source,

    That's where an expansion of FCVs come in. Toyota is planning a "phased introduction' of other FCVs, including SUVs and commercial trucks starting around 2025. Toyota declined to talk about future products, but did reveal that it has built prototypes of small delivery vehicles and transport trucks with fuel cell powertrains.

    “We’re going to use as many parts from existing passenger cars and other models as possible in fuel cell trucks. Otherwise, we won’t see the benefits of mass production,” said Ikuo Ota, manager of new business planning for fuel cell projects at Toyota.

    Why is Toyota doubling down on fuel cells? Sources say that Toyota believes demand will increase as more countries, including China "warm to fuel cell technology". The company also sees FCVs as a hedge against battery materials such as cobalt becoming scarce.

    But there is still one issue that Toyota, and other automakers build FCVs still need to solve; infrastructure. There aren't many hydrogen refueling stations around. For example, the majority of hydrogen stations in the U.S. are in California. Not helping is a current shortage of hydrogen at refueling stations in California. Green Car Reports says this issue is due to various problems with supplier Air Products. The company said that it hopes to restore hydrogen supplies sometime in early August.

    Source: Reuters, Green Car Reports

    • Upvote 1


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    I totally get the green side of emission on a Hydrogen auto. Yet I still see this as a big negative also since it takes way more energy to produce the Hydrogen fuel. So one must question the long term nature of Hydrogen auto's.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Fuel cells make great sense for city dwellers, small delivery vehicles, taxis, and other livery.   You can have a hydrogen generator in your garage and hydrogen can be generated from renewable sources, so its efficiency is less of a concern. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Fuel cells make great sense for city dwellers, small delivery vehicles, taxis, and other livery.   You can have a hydrogen generator in your garage and hydrogen can be generated from renewable sources, so its efficiency is less of a concern. 

    I get the renewable source for energy, having a small hydrogen generator in the garage is a challenge coming from a person who sold home CNG fueling equipment. RIght now your looking at an overnight fueling refill of a compressed hydrogen tank with high cost for the equipment up front. I am skeptical of a person wanting to pay 6 to 10K for a home fueling system without big rebates from the gov.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I get the renewable source for energy, having a small hydrogen generator in the garage is a challenge coming from a person who sold home CNG fueling equipment. RIght now your looking at an overnight fueling refill of a compressed hydrogen tank with high cost for the equipment up front. I am skeptical of a person wanting to pay 6 to 10K for a home fueling system without big rebates from the gov.

    You took garage the wrong way.  I'm thinking more like a taxi garage or a mid-size plumbing firm that maybe has 5 or 6 Sienna Commercial Vans.

    If you told the business owner that he/she could erase their fuel costs for the next 10 - 15 years with an upfront check of $10k (assuming the vehicle purchases would be a wash) that should be a fairly easy check to write.

    • Upvote 1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    It's way out there but I think hydrogen is the way of the future... They're way behind on current technology but it'll come along one day. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You took garage the wrong way.  I'm thinking more like a taxi garage or a mid-size plumbing firm that maybe has 5 or 6 Sienna Commercial Vans.

    If you told the business owner that he/she could erase their fuel costs for the next 10 - 15 years with an upfront check of $10k (assuming the vehicle purchases would be a wash) that should be a fairly easy check to write.

    Got it, totally zoned on the business garage and that makes even more sense.

    I wonder what ever happened to Honda and their Home Garage fueling station that was all the rage in 2007.

    http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fueling-stations/

    honda-home-h2-filling-station.jpg

    Now I will say I like this company's products:

    http://www.hydrogenhouseproject.org/index.html

    They have a Solar Hydrogen Fuel Cell electric lawn mower, Solar Hydrogen Fuel Cell Off-road EV, the cool part is the portable Joule box that can be used to keep your house fully in the power. Check it out.

    Sadly, while there was allot of concepts for home Hydrogen fueling, it has all died out due to EVs. I could only find the company above that seems to be building a unit that could be used for home fueling.

    16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    It's way out there but I think hydrogen is the way of the future... They're way behind on current technology but it'll come along one day. 

    Questionable if in my lifetime. :P All the rage in 2007 to 2012 and now dead compared to EV. So it will be interesting to see how Toyota gets this jump started as it is going to cost companies that go this route some big dollars to have hydrogen fueling equipment in places that their fleet can access and use it.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    55 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    There is such a thing as a 'Sienna Commercial van'? 

    I made it up. But you got the idea of what I am trying to say while keeping it Toyota. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I made it up. But you got the idea of what I am trying to say while keeping it Toyota. 

    Yes...given how huge Toyota is, I'm surprised they haven't gotten into the commercial van space in the US like Nissan has done w/ the NVs...

    A US market version of the Hiace would be cool.  And imagine how badazz one of these would look w/ the Lexus predator grille, sharp angles, squinty lights, and 22 inch wheels..(though the JDM Alphard van looks pretty Lexus-ish these days..)

    hiace-front-view.png

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
    • Like 1

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    58 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    There is such a thing as a 'Sienna Commercial van'? 

    Makes total sense with Toyota expanding their Hydrogen options that they would have a commercial van running on hydrogen even though it is a floating idea that Drew through out there.

    Toyota should pay Drew for the idea of a hydrogen commercial van. :P 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites


    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By Drew Dowdell
      According to the Rumorpile, Toyota is working on bringing back the Venza, a car that went out of production after 2015. The original Venza did not sell very well, partially due to its wagon-like shape and also relatively high pricing.  It also lacked any off-road pretense that typically comes with a crossover.
      The problem for Toyota is that there is a large Venza sized gap in their SUV lineup between the RAV-4 and Highlander. This time around, the Venza would ditch the wagon looks and instead be a true crossover along the lines of the Chevrolet Trailblazer, Honda Passport, and Ford Edge. There is a possibility that the Venza would come in only hybrid form using the same 2.5-liter setup with rear electric motor that the Highlander uses. 
      If the rumors prove true, you could see a new Venza hit the auto show circuit as early as 2021. 

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      According to the Rumorpile, Toyota is working on bringing back the Venza, a car that went out of production after 2015. The original Venza did not sell very well, partially due to its wagon-like shape and also relatively high pricing.  It also lacked any off-road pretense that typically comes with a crossover.
      The problem for Toyota is that there is a large Venza sized gap in their SUV lineup between the RAV-4 and Highlander. This time around, the Venza would ditch the wagon looks and instead be a true crossover along the lines of the Chevrolet Trailblazer, Honda Passport, and Ford Edge. There is a possibility that the Venza would come in only hybrid form using the same 2.5-liter setup with rear electric motor that the Highlander uses. 
      If the rumors prove true, you could see a new Venza hit the auto show circuit as early as 2021. 
    • By William Maley
      General Motors will be bringing back the Hummer name to sell a new electric truck as part of the GMC lineup.
      The Wall Street Journal first broke the news yesterday with GM moving forward on plans to bring Hummer back that was first reported back in June. The report also said that the company would tout the return with a Super Bowl ad featuring NBA star LeBron James. GM declined to comment.
      The decision is likely due to the planned $3 billion investment for the Detroit-Hamtramck plant that we reported back in October. The investment is to gear up the plant to build an electric pickup for GMC and an electric Cadillac SUV by 2023. But in 2021, the plant will produce a "low volume BT1 pickup" under a different brand. At the time we speculated that it may be Hummer. This seems to lineup with the reporting done by the Wall Street Journal which says the truck will be similar in design to the Jeep Renegade.
      Bloomberg adds that there are plans for a large SUV for Hummer if the truck proves successful according to sources. The sources also say that the company is considering selling the new Hummer truck in existing dealers under the name of “Hummer by GMC.”
      Source: Wall Street Journal (Subscription Required), Automotive News (Subscription Required)
      H/T to @balthazar for alerting us to this story

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      General Motors will be bringing back the Hummer name to sell a new electric truck as part of the GMC lineup.
      The Wall Street Journal first broke the news yesterday with GM moving forward on plans to bring Hummer back that was first reported back in June. The report also said that the company would tout the return with a Super Bowl ad featuring NBA star LeBron James. GM declined to comment.
      The decision is likely due to the planned $3 billion investment for the Detroit-Hamtramck plant that we reported back in October. The investment is to gear up the plant to build an electric pickup for GMC and an electric Cadillac SUV by 2023. But in 2021, the plant will produce a "low volume BT1 pickup" under a different brand. At the time we speculated that it may be Hummer. This seems to lineup with the reporting done by the Wall Street Journal which says the truck will be similar in design to the Jeep Renegade.
      Bloomberg adds that there are plans for a large SUV for Hummer if the truck proves successful according to sources. The sources also say that the company is considering selling the new Hummer truck in existing dealers under the name of “Hummer by GMC.”
      Source: Wall Street Journal (Subscription Required), Automotive News (Subscription Required)
      H/T to @balthazar for alerting us to this story
    • By Drew Dowdell
      My wheels for the week are a 2020 Toyota Corolla XLE sedan. This one is well equipped with Toyota Safety Sense now standard, Toyota Entune with Apple CarPlay, Adaptive lighting system with automatic high beams, headed seats, and a JBL Premium audio system. It is rated for 29 city / 37 highway and we'll be putting that highway number to the test. We will be taking the Corolla to Northern Virginia for the weekend to visit family for the holidays. 
      The XLE differs from the 2019 Corolla SE hatchback that @William Maley recently tested in that it has the 1.8 liter engine instead of the 2.0 liter. This engine puts out 139 horsepower at 6100 RPM and 126 lb-ft of torque at 3900 rpm. About a 30 horsepower deficit compared to the SE.
       In my initial drive, I found the car to be snappy around town, but things got a little raucous when I went to merge onto the highway. Though it is a CVT, it has a fixed first gear. The fixed first gear does take away from the rubber band feeling most CVTs have. I took the Corolla on a set of twisty roads that I take all test vehicles on and the sedan, while no sports car, felt firmly planted and predictable around the curves. 
      One thing that is surprising is the sticker price; $28,084 for a Corolla without even the biggest engine seems quite steep. 
      So while I'm loading up the trunk with Christmas cheer, fire off any questions you have about the 2020 Toyota Corolla XLE.


      View full article
  • Posts

    • I don't see Ford offering free gas, so I don't know why people expect Tesla to offer free electricity.
    • Quebec lost ground in EV infrastructure to British Columbia, California and Washington. Due to the PQ (Parti Quebecois) Government  that was elected as a minority government in 2012.   The PQ cut all subsidies and EV investments in infrastructure  and distanced themselves with the idea of a better economy with EVs. But in 2014...there was another election and the Liberals won and the government invested its energy (*pun intended) back  in informing the citizens that EVs might be good for the Quebec people.  But...not enough monies were invested for the infrastructure.  Subsidies for EV purchases only.   A new government was elected in 2018 (the CAQ...50% separatist values  (kinda like the PQ party, but less radical),  25 % liberal values and 25%conservative values... but these guys actually do listen to the voice of the people...the pur sang Quebec people...the true blue Frenchies...and maybe not the English voices LOL) but where the Liberals left off with EVs, the CAQ goes even further.  They actually inform the people of Quebec on how EVs benefit our economy. Monies are given to local businesses, homes, to establish an infrastructure.   The CAQ government is working with Hydro-Quebec to not raise its prices, to give discounts to those who actually charge their EVs at home...to also encourage people to not be wasteful of electricity and so forth.  Subsidies for the purchase of EVs has also been prolonged, and the rebates increased all for the purpose to get more EVs on Quebec roads.  For green purposes but for Quebec's economy also.  The people of Quebec are starting to see the benefits of EV ownership versus ICE on multiple levels....  We have discussed these benefits ad nauseam @ Cheersandgears...no need for me to revisit this. The Model 3 is everywhere in Montreal.  The Model S too.  The Model X not so much... But...the Kia Kona EV is also a very popular EV in Montreal.   Tons of hybrids. From the Fusion Hybrid to the Chevy Volt to the different Toyotas that have the Toyota Hybrid Drive.  The Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt were once dominant in Montreal, but since the Model 3 has arrived and now wait times are no longer an issue for the Model 3, the Leaf and Bolt are not as popular. The Model 3 is just steamrolling along.  The Federal government is offering up to 5000 and the Quebec government is offering another 8000.   That figure was for EVs costing less than 75 000. But now, as of April 1st 2020,  that 8000 max is for EVs costing less than 60 000 MSRP.   A Model 3, with an MSRP of less than 60 000 (which was the standard price) could be potentially had for 47 000...   And now...I think the standard price for the Model 3 in Canada IS 47 000... Well...we know that Elon likes to overcharge for some stuff...OK...but with rebates like in Quebec and in Canada...the Quebec rebate pays for the AWD and the Canada rebate pays for the mundane shyte that Elon charges for but other OEMs gives us for free...(yeah...its not as if GM or Ford or Honda dont force you into higher trim packages for the mundane shyte you want but are stuck in upgrading trim packages just to get that mundae shyte but now are forced to have other mundane shyte you really dont care for...)  https://vehiculeselectriques.gouv.qc.ca/english/rabais/ve-neuf/programme-rabais-vehicule-neuf.asp      
    • I totally agree with you and the west coast is very much the same as your area of Canada with state, county, city govs in sync with residents on EV's / Hybrids. Most want full size truck/SUV BEVs. As such, I think once these come to market we will see a dramatic move to EV's at least here on the west coast. I still think the Governments drive to have a cleaner climate is what will drive the change from ICE to EV. China especially will drive this.
  • Social Stream

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. dukenj
      dukenj
      (58 years old)
    2. svz-07
      svz-07
      (40 years old)
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • My Clubs

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×
×
  • Create New...