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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    As the Diesel Emits & Rumorpile: The Secret Diamler and Volkswagen Diesel Technology Deal

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      Another one of those 'what if' questions, one that could have prevented the mess Volkswagen finds itself in

    In 2005, Volkswagen was in dire straights. The company was going through a painful restructure and was looking into various ways to get itself back into shape. One of those ways was a possible deal with Daimler on possibly using their diesel technologies. But Volkswagen canceled the talks later that year and worked on their own diesel engines, which led to the cheating software and the mess it finds itself today.

    Bloomberg has learned from sources about a top-secret plan known as 'Project Tabletop'. The plan, spearheaded by then VW CEO Bernd Pischetsrieder, involved Volkswagen and Daimler possibly collaborating on projects and a possible deal where Volkswagen would get access to Diamler's BlueTec technologies for cleaning up diesel emissions by using urea injection. However, the talks were called off before an important meeting in August 2005. Sources claim that Volkswagen balked at cost of adding BlueTec to their vehicles -  about 1,000 euros per car. Plus, VW couldn't lower production costs to compensate for.

    Instead, Volkswagen would go on its own and continue working on their TDI engines. This got strong internal support from then chairman Ferdinand Piech. But it also brought a fair amount on controversy to Volkswagen's top management. Some believed that Volkswagen wouldn't be able to meet the stringent U.S. standards for diesel vehicles without the BlueTec technologies.

    Sure enough, in 2006, Volkswagen would begin developing the software cheat that would reduce emissions when it detected specific conditions to know it was being tested. It is unclear if there is a link between the deal falling through and development of the cheat.

    Source: Bloomberg

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    I can totally believe this, MB wanted a fortune for their Pee solution and VW balked and as such we have VWgate.

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    Is everyone who is using DEF using the MB version these days?  I haven't heard of GM, BMW, VM, or Fiat diesel using MB tech for their DEF.  Why couldn't VW have developed their own? They're the diesel masters we were told.  Who's tech is the DEF solution that VW is using now?

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    On 1/17/2017 at 9:19 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

    Is everyone who is using DEF using the MB version these days?  I haven't heard of GM, BMW, VM, or Fiat diesel using MB tech for their DEF.  Why couldn't VW have developed their own? They're the diesel masters we were told.  Who's tech is the DEF solution that VW is using now?

    Good Question, I wonder who could answer who is using the MB Pee Solution versus building their own pee solution or an afterburner solution which is how I believe GM is doing it.

    GM's on PDF is an interesting read:

    http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals and Videos/02_pdf/SilveradoHD_DEF.pdf

    Wikipedia and Yes I know take it with a grain of salt states that VW is now licensing their BluTec solution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueTec

    Interesting Read on the EPA and their emission testing:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20160927/OEM11/160929847/the-car-emissions-sleuth-whos-costing-fiat-chrysler-5-billion

    Interesting emissions story about VW and the rest of the auto industry with a good chart showing real emissions in testing.

    http://www.which.co.uk/news/2015/09/vw-diesel-emissions---its-only-half-the-story-416730/

    2007 based but good paper on Diesel emissions and control solutions:

    http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/MECA_Diesel_White_Paper_12-07-07_final.pdf

    Cool Info on Detroits DEF solution for their Class 8 Semi's

    https://demanddetroit.com/why-detroit/emissions/

    Interesting info on the Wiki page about Emissions for the US auto market.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_emission_standards

    Some very good info on DEF.

    http://ppcdefsolutions.com/

    Still I could not find a listing of who has built their own DEF exhaust solution versus licensing from MB the original DEF emissions solution builder.

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