It's back

[Camino LS6]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Drew Dowdell]

I thought you were referring to the "CPU Quota Exceeded" that's been cropping up again.....

we're going to Virtual Private Hosting once our current term is up.... no more of this.

[Camino LS6]

I thought you were referring to the "CPU Quota Exceeded" that's been cropping up again.....

we're going to Virtual Private Hosting once our current term is up.... no more of this.

That's a relief, I was avoiding bringing that up.

[Camino LS6]

Oldsmoboi: Have you seen this film (or the first one)?

[Drew Dowdell]

no, I haven't

[Camino LS6]

I highly recommend both, and would be very curious as to your reaction.

Especially to certain aspects.

They are extremely thought-provoking.

[loki]

i've started to watch the addendum...at ~12 minute mark... gotta sleep soon. yay buffering!

[Camino LS6]

The addendum stands on its own fairly well, but the original ought to be seen first IMHO.

[loki]

downloading the first one... it'll only take, a day or so.

[Camino LS6]

Cool.

I'm interested in reaction from anyone who watches these.

[loki]

~35 minutes left

the venus project is intriguing, but I think there seems like there are flaws in it...unless i'm just "trapped in the monetary mindset".

would this "world" numb us to pain/loss? how can you eliminate hate? how would all these initial resources be found/made? do people like to be irresponsible? does sustainability mean everything has to be planned?

....these are things that Utopia's have tried to do, i'm not saying this is impossible, but social changes between now and "success" would be chaos.

want and need would have to be merged somehow when at times they are extremes to one another. ...at least until holodecks and replicators.

the venus project could be the new "garden of eden"...but what would keep us from "eating the forbidden fruit" again?

Camino, you got anything?

[loki]

oh, not watched anymore, but it sounds like the project means that if it succeeded, we could become as lazy as we want....Wall-E...?

or it would be start of ...eternal prosperity...and "self evolution"

[Sixty8panther]

Camino:

Okay, so I guess thanks(?) for posting this, I just watched the

first movie, instead of getting at least a few hours of sleep to

help with my 14 hour day. It's 2:53am, I gotta be at UPS and

loading trucks in less than an hour and as it turns out... my

new buddy that I've been having a lot of deep discussions with

(the absence of any plane wreckage at Pentagon, 9/11 etc.) is

probably well aware of this movie since he has THREE different

bumper stickers on his Jeep that elude to it.

Thought Provoking is right.

The most powerful lesson I can think of at this moment, as my

mind races: regardless of how much of that movie is legit/b.s.

the right to bear arms is the single most important tool that we,

as a society, country, humanity have been given, for it is the best

& possibly only way to someday free our selves from Oppressors,

be they past, present or future.

F***, Its almost 2:59 am... gotta go jump in the shower.

[Sixty8panther]

*bump*

So Camino, do share your thoughts.

[loki]

ok, so i finally finished it... (and after my pc dumped ~200mb of page file). there are tons of good examples of ways to improve this world, it would be much better even if some of this would start, but i don't know about this "System" necessarily eliminating religion....I think religion will survive indefinitely by one means or another because we simply don't know everything, nor could we.

I could agree that "this system" could alleviate many of our problems, but agreeing on what "love" is (in a worldwide idea) will be the biggest challenge after ending "money".

[Camino LS6]

I am, by nature, a skeptic. But much of what is presented in these two films is compelling.

More importantly, they challenge us to think for ourselves in ways that we have been "trained" not to for several generations.

Do I accept all of the positions promoted by the two films?

No, I take issue with some things strongly. But the change in mindset they encourage is something I can get behind.

As for the Venus Project, it has more holes in it than Swiss cheese - but I admire the exploration of the possibilities. A believe that adoption of a "resource-based economy" would take several centuries to evolve and would have to occur naturally to be viable. I also reject the notion that meaningful progress cannot be made within a monetary system.

As for religion, I am 100% with the sentiments expressed in the films - but you guys already knew that.

Thanks for the reactions, I think that watching such films can broaden everyone's understanding.

[Black and Blue Landscaper]

For those who have seen both or the second film, what do you think this means for our future looking at recent events?

And to those who are reading who have not seen the film(s) what is your outlook to our economy's future?

[Sixty8panther]

To piggy-back off my other thread....

I just watched the "addendum" to the Zeitgeist movie.

Funny how my original idea in this thread is supported

by both Zeitgeist movies... too bad they get all silly &

advocate a "Utopian" ideal that is not realistic IMHO.

I agree with and support about 75% of the ideas in the first movie.

The addendum is far too Utopian & hopelessly optimistic to ever be

close to reality. Sadly, some, actually many people are too flawed,

society, money & ethnocentric influences aside.

No prisons? what about the murderers? rapists? anarchists?

No work, a perfect society? B.S. even a tiger or a shark, the top of

their respective food chains, have to work to get their food.

I think there are a lot of great ideas in the addendum but I only

agree with, say.... 25% of te overall message.

Religion & money ARE both corrupt, disgusting tools used for the

promotion & perpetuation of a modern "slavery".

I've believed for the last decade+ that religion really IS the opiate

of the masses, used to repress the real solutions to many of our

REAL problems. While technology is a great tool, it is NOT the

silver bullet the movie claims. That's a little naive.

-----

I'm shocked how few of you are wiling to check this out, it presents

some groundbreaking ideas, I think the overall message is fantastic,

and naturally much of it is scary & surreal, no one likes their reality

to be F***ed with, eve if it is for their own good.

[Sixty8panther]

Wow.... nothing?

[Camino LS6]

I'm a bit surprised myself, 68.

I guess that the download time might be part of it.

I really would love to see a huge chunk of the population check this out.

[mustang84]

I'm still watching it...about halfway through the first movie, but I agree with everything so far about religion. I've long grown distant from my upbringing as a Catholic, and that gap grew even wider when I studied abroad in Italy last year. I read a ton of books on history while I was over there and basically learned about the formation of Christianity. I visited a chamber in S. Quattro Coronati that few have ever been able to visit (our art history teacher was able to pull some strings and get us in), and we this chamber had a mural whose story of Emperor's Constantine's baptism by Pope Innocent was completely fabricated. The story also tells of Constantine's ascension to power over the previous emperor by the emperor getting leprosy and then being magically healed by Pope Innocent, to which he gave his crown to Constantine as a sign of submission. This event never happened and has been debunked for many centuries, part of the reason this room remains locked to the general public.

Our art history class was more about the history of society than it was about art. We learned about how the early Christian church used its power of wealth to build hospitals, streets, and bridges in order to gain favor with the pagans that remained during the Dark Ages. We learned how the church deliberately destroyed great Roman temples to eradicate nearly all traces of paganism, yet recycled statues, ornament, and other objects they felt were fit to incorporate into this new Christian religion. If it had no value to them, it was burned, chiseled, dissected, or simply crushed and the scrap and debris that was left was used to build new churches.

Many of the early Christian churches are actually built on top of Roman temples and use Roman columns. This is because the art of sculpting, woodcraft, stone cutting, and ornament was forgotten in the mayhem that was the Dark Ages. They wanted these grand churches to inspire their followers, but they forgot how to construct them. The Christians were basically barbarians that caused the world to plunge into a period of regress. They despised knowledge, intellect, and invention, unless it was somehow connected to their religious beliefs. Cities grew up around churches rather than halls of justice or palaces of government; churches were the government, and churches became the safe havens for people in an age conflict, pestilence, and turmoil. Religion perpetuated this misery, painting the world as a dark, miserable place where people should serve this higher god so that they can quickly pass into the wonderful world of the afterlife. This is exactly why religious leaders despised education, because education is directly tied to progress and progress weakens their social control over the masses.

That's my take on the religious aspect of this movie based on what I have read, studied, and seen...I'll probably add more comments on other aspects of the movie later on.

Edited October 18, 2008 by mustang84

[mustang84]

Alright, I'm still watching the movie (been watching it off and on) and am at the part where they talk about Woodrow Wilson's regret of signing the Federal Reserve Act.

The quote shown in the movie:

"[Our]great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no government, by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.

-"Woodrow Wilson"

The problem with this is that the movie claims this quote was made shortly after the passing of the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913 when, in fact, this quote was made during Woodrow Wilson's campaign speech in 1912.

Now, I'm not going to discredit the whole movie based on this error, but when facts are stretched to suit a theme or mood for a movie, I start to have doubts about the authenticity of the other facts.

I'm still undecided about 9/11; I've read plenty of conspiracy theories, and also plenty of scientific articles that debunk the conspiracy theories (and sound fairly reasonable). I still have not yet heard a good reason why WTC 7 collapsed.

[Camino LS6]

Thanks for the contributions, Mustang!

[Sixty8panther]

The Christians were basically barbarians that caused the world to plunge into a period of regress. They despised knowledge, intellect, and invention, unless it was somehow connected to their religious beliefs.

The more things change....

I work with a Christian who believes the world is 5000 years old,

"looking with lust upon a woman" (as in when I checked out a

certain co-worker's ass, NO she did not see me doing it) is the

EXACT same thing as committing adultery and the best part, his

explanation for Dinosaurs: They're living amongst us... on certain

continents, unreported by the Scientists who are, like the media,

in collusion with the devil to distract us from the inevitable fiery

hell that awaits unrepentant sinners.