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regfootball

GM: three global brands

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so, really, what if?

Could GM make do globally with 3 brands? These are the three I propose.

Chevy

Opel

Cadillac

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in this scenario, i would vastly expand Chevy's lineup. The G8 would become the new Impala. The Holden Caprice becomes Chevy Caprice. Chevy would get a deluge of new models and products pronto.

Cadillac gets more models too.

Edited by regfootball
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GM will have to retain other badges, perhaps only as badge names. Holden makes sense in Australia if you weigh the cost of introducing a new brand there. Buick makes sense in NA for the same reasons. Opel would remain almost exclusively European.

Cadillac is the big '?' because very few take it seriously outside of NA.........

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in this scenario, i would vastly expand Chevy's lineup. The G8 would become the new Impala. The Holden Caprice becomes Chevy Caprice. Chevy would get a deluge of new models and products pronto.

Cadillac gets more models too.

The Zeta platform is going to die in North America after the current generation (this has already been stated by GM), and depending on GM's financial situation OZ may or may not get another generation, so then what?

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The Zeta platform is going to die in North America after the current generation (this has already been stated by GM), and depending on GM's financial situation OZ may or may not get another generation, so then what?

Let's see:

1) The next gen Malibu is aligned with the next gen Epica/Tosca on the SWB Epsilon II platform. I would assume that the next gen Malibu/Epica/Tosca will be about the size of the current Opel Insignia, but it will have unique styling that will emphasize interior space (instead of the coupe like roofline of the Insignia).

2) The next gen Impala is aligned with the next gen Commodore on the LWB Epsilon II platform. There won't be a next gen Holden Statesman/Caprice, so the next gen Daewoo Veritas would be aligned with this next gen LWB Epsilon II Impala/Commodore. I would assume that this next gen Impala/Commodore/Veritas will be about the size of the upcoming LWB Eps II LaCrosse.

3) Basically, Chevrolet=Holden=Daewoo depending on which market you are in.

These are just predictions, but they make sense if GM is considering aligning their global products while continuing to abandon the majority of their RWD projects.

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Opel would be called Buick in China and the U.S. and be called Holden in Australia. Same products, different names.

I predict by 2015 Cadillac will be only Epsilon II DTS, Lambda Escalade, TE SRX, and hopefully Alpha CTS. (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Lexus will probably be forced to reduce their lineups substantially by then also.)

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The Zeta platform is going to die in North America after the current generation (this has already been stated by GM), and depending on GM's financial situation OZ may or may not get another generation, so then what?

point being, this would carry them about 2 years until they get an all new one rushed to market. what, can't GM get a car to market in 2 years like Ford and Toyota?

i would axe buick if opel was a no go here. saturn or pontiac would survive as the opel in NA cars. I just don't see the brand equity for buick with anyone besides old people. Pontiac at least would have a chance. Saturn too. But I do think introducing the Opel brand here, albeit slow and painful, could have a chance over time.

I am wondering if we will see a crossover backlash by the public as well which could dramatically turn people towards sedans again. In that case I do not see much more for GM crossovers than the Lambdas, and the Equinox, Antara, and SRX.

I just don't see Buick as being fully parallel and compatible with Opel. But basically China needs Buick and so what needs to happen then is basically Buick China and Opel need to be in full sync because I doubt there will be funded Buick NA exclusive products too much longer........

They probably can pull off the Insignia / Regal thing and have it be believable. Corsa and Astra however, there is NFW they can make them into Buicks. The only version of the Astra that is believable as a Buick would be a sedan. Both the Corsa and Astra need to be here, IMHO and they cannot be Buicks. This is why it needs to be Opel in NA or else it needs to have a deathmatch to see if these become Saturns or Pontiacs. Buick Corsa? I think not.

Currently they say Pontiac is 'niche' now. Also we know the G6 and G8 will probably die. If this is the case, let's just get it over with now. Rename the G6 'Grand Am' and rename the G8 'Grand Prix' and at least let them die in dignity. Personally though I see no problem in letting grand prix and grand am live on in their next lives if they invest and do a good job making them.

Whatever chassis GM comes up with to replace the zeta needs to be kick ass and needs to be AWD capable. I seriously feel Opel needs a flagship car too, and I would go so far to say it should be a global serious ass platform that is the next DTS / flagship Opel / volume Chevy or Buick large car chassis. And I am not talking Epsilon. I am talking serious hardware here.

Buick Sky? um, NO. I am still failing to see how GM will remake and repair Buick to align with the product qualities of Opel. I seriously think they are not capable of making this work.

Edited by regfootball
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Opel would be called Buick in China and the U.S. and be called Holden in Australia. Same products, different names.

I predict by 2015 Cadillac will be only Epsilon II DTS, Lambda Escalade, TE SRX, and hopefully Alpha CTS. (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Lexus will probably be forced to reduce their lineups substantially by then also.)

Right now, Holden seems to be aligned more with Daewoo/Chevrolet than it is with Opel. The Astra is the only Opel product in Holden's current lineup as opposed to 4 GMDAT vehicles (Barina, Viva, Epica, and Captiva). My guess would be that the upcoming small sedan that Holden will be building on its home turf will be nothing more than a Cruze/Lacetti Premiere with a Holden-esque front end treatment, model name, and badges. I have to admit that if I lived in Australia, I would prefer Holden to be aligned with Opel instead of GMDAT.

Edited by cire
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Right now, Holden seems to be aligned more with Daewoo/Chevrolet than it is with Opel. The Astra is the only Opel product in Holden's current lineup as opposed to 4 GMDAT vehicles (Barina, Viva, Epica, and Captiva). My guess would be that the upcoming small sedan that Holden will be building on its home turf will be nothing more than a Cruze/Lacetti Premiere with a Holden-esque front end treatment, model name, and badges. I have to admit that if I lived in Australia, I would prefer Holden to be aligned with Opel instead of GMDAT.

The problem with that is, technically Holden is GMDAT's parent company. GM's holdings were formally purchased by GM Holden Ltd which holds a seat on GMDAT's board.

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The problem with that is, technically Holden is GMDAT's parent company. GM's holdings were formally purchased by GM Holden Ltd which holds a seat on GMDAT's board.

So it's basically going to be Chevrolet=Daewoo=Holden then?

Edited by cire
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I just don't see Buick as being fully parallel and compatible with Opel. But basically China needs Buick and so what needs to happen then is basically Buick China and Opel need to be in full sync because I doubt there will be funded Buick NA exclusive products too much longer........

They probably can pull off the Insignia / Regal thing and have it be believable. Corsa and Astra however, there is NFW they can make them into Buicks. The only version of the Astra that is believable as a Buick would be a sedan. Both the Corsa and Astra need to be here, IMHO and they cannot be Buicks. This is why it needs to be Opel in NA or else it needs to have a deathmatch to see if these become Saturns or Pontiacs. Buick Corsa? I think not.

Buick Sky? um, NO. I am still failing to see how GM will remake and repair Buick to align with the product qualities of Opel. I seriously think they are not capable of making this work.

The Enclave and next gen LaCrosse prove that Buick can represent something besides geezer-mobiles. I think most Opel products will fit in with Buick and will help transform Buick into a cool and relevant premium division. I do agree that the next gen Corsa/Astra hatchbacks will be a tough fit for Buick though. I think these 2 products could be carried by Pontiac to help transform it into an entry premium small car brand. The other Opel products (current Insignia sedan/wagon, next gen Astra sedan/wagon, next gen Meriva, and next gen Zafira) would be good and appropriate matches for Buick. If there is a next gen Antara, it should go to GMC.

As for Saturn, GM should either arrange a deal with Toyota/NUMMI to produce a three product family of compact cars for the brand once the current Corolla/Matrix/Vibe reach the end of their model cycles or GM should discontinue the brand.

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i wonder if pontiac and saturn will become clones as GM fades both brands away. Dodge/Plymouth Neon anyone?

the death of pontiac to me is dispicable. yet, to me pontiac is needed as the altar ego of buick and the only way to keep buick showrooms from being relevant to anyone who can still pee by themselves. Seriously, everyone I see driving Enclaves is as geriatric as Lexus and Toyota. Side note, Hyundai is going to eat toyota's lunch some day a lot sooner than everyone else thinks.

Hence, if Pontiac is going to die, and Buick is going to be non-believable, just call it Opel and get it all over with now.

Edited by regfootball
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so, really, what if?

Could GM make do globally with 3 brands? These are the three I propose.

Chevy

Opel

Cadillac

Opel would be called Buick in China and the U.S. and be called Holden in Australia. Same products, different names.

I've been saying this for months

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I don't think there's a long-term sustainable need for a "middle" brand in the American market like there used to be. But, whatever you call it (Saturn, Buick, Pontiac, Opel) the cars must be made in North America or they will fail a la Astra. The currency swings are a real problem and always have been. Look at the most successful premium volume European car, Volkswagen, which sells more cars than either Buick or Pontiac and still struggles. Do you think GMNA can do a better job of selling a "German" car than Volkswagen?

BTW, I'm surprised there's so much discussion and reverence on this board for Holden, a "company" that only sold 150,000 vehicles and produced 100,000 in 2007. Peanuts!

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BTW, I'm surprised there's so much discussion and reverence on this board for Holden, a "company" that only sold 150,000 vehicles and produced 100,000 in 2007. Peanuts!

Not everyone shares that reverence for Holden on this board, peanuts indeed ...

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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Sorry, I meant to type "Saturn" not "Pontiac" in Post #15. However, I went back and looked at the numbers for Pontiac and they're dropping fast. Pontiac sold 267,348 in 2008 while VW also slipped but less quickly to 223,128. Won't be long.

pontiac sold how many?
Edited by buyacargetacheck
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Not everyone shares that reverence for Holden on this board, peanuts indeed ...

I think most of the reverence comes from the Zeta based products. If those products were taken away or moved to Eps II for their next generation, then I would expect a lot of that reverence to diminish. What many people fail to realize or acknowledge is that quite a bit of Holden's lineup consists of GMDAT products (4) with one Opel thrown in the mix. I sort of cringe when people say to simply align Pontiac with Holden when that move (with the exception of the Zeta products) would essentially give them the kind of products that they already complain about seeing in Pontiac's lineup (essentially the GMDAT products). I think most people actually mean that Pontiac should be aligned with Holden's Zeta based products only. Of course, this is only good until GM completely pulls the plug on Zeta.

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so, really, what if?

Could GM make do globally with 3 brands? These are the three I propose.

Chevy

Opel

Cadillac

_FAIL

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