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wildcat

GM: Buick Not For Sale

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Not yet. But don't be surprised when SAIC buys out GM's share of their China JV including Buick worldwide as a part of GM's Chapter 11 filing. It also wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese decided they weren't interested in GM's NA Buick network given the lack of growth potential here (in fact decades-long contraction!) versus expansion opportunities in China.

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GM prefers to kill off their children personally, by tough love and starvation, rather than drop them off at the orphanage.

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Here's a contrarian thought nobody sees coming....maybe Cadillac should be ditched in favor of Buick???

GM has failed miserably to get Cadillac anywhere on the same plane as BMW and Mercedes in terms of prestige. It's probably an impossible mountain to climb given the investment required and GM's financial situation. Buick, on the other hand, is also lower than it should be in terms of perception, but the difference between where it is now and where it could be as a "deluxe" brand isn't as large as where Cadillac is now and where it needs to get to for growth and parity with the Germans. Add to that, Sigma has been a disappointment sales-wise and probably profits too. It just didn't deliver like they thought it would. The large sedan market is rapidly contracting so cars like the DTS are doomed. Chevy-based Escalade has been the most successful Cadillac image-builder lately, but its glory days are past. Undoubtedly, whether it's Cadillac or Buick, the second GM division's future is tied heavily to Chevrolet. Probably an easier and more cost-effective mission for Buick.

Chevrolet and Buick???

Edited by buyacargetacheck
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Well.. leessee...

>>"GM has failed miserably to get Cadillac anywhere on the same plane as BMW and Mercedes in terms of prestige."<<

Cadillac's segment sales share in the 3-series segment in 2000 : 0%

What is it's segment penetration as of '08?

CTS is very much so "on the same plane" as B & M. CTS-V destroys it's competition.

>>"Sigma has been a disappointment sales-wise..."<<

What were the official projections ??

>>"...and probably profits too."<<

Conjecture.

>>"It just didn't deliver like they thought it would."<<

Conjecture.

>>"The large sedan market is rapidly contracting so cars like the DTS are doomed."<<

Pathetic-selling S-Series & 7-Class :wink: doomed, too, or will the S-Series :wink: just continue to be the fleet monster it is ??

>>"Chevy-based Escalade has been the most successful Cadillac image-builder lately..."<

It's not "Chevy-based" as this generation was developed con-currently. It's GM-platform based, but not other-division based.

>>"...the second GM division's future is tied heavily to Chevrolet. Probably an easier and more cost-effective mission for Buick."<<

Conjecture. If a bankruptcy goes thru, the crushing debt obligation should be at least greatly reduced, if not eliminated. Money saved from the expected 'good GM / bad GM' split should finally free up more than enough cash to develop a 2-division Corp more effectively than it's been for years... but admittedly that's conjecture on MY part; I don't have any numbers to base that statement on.

Do you?

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I'm going to agree with balthazar for the most part with the exception of the Escalade. It's more differentiated than the last one but you can still tell it's based on a Tahoe.

The CTS, especially in V form, is a world beater, and almost outsold the 3 series or whatever was #1 in sales in the segment before the market crapped out. I don't know how it's selling compared to others right now.

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The CTS and Sigma are fine products. But no one but no one believes that Cadillac has the same prestige as BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or even Audi. It all boils down to how the owner feels when he pulls up to the valet at the country club. The product can be great all day, but if the general perception isn't there it won't help sales. Cadillac just doesn't have that "I'm a success" factor anymore. It's like the true story of the XLR owner who was approached by a Mercedes SL owner. The SL owner said he loved the look of the XLR and would love to buy one. But he said he just didn't have the guts. How's the XLR doing now? The SRX and STS were both admitted sales disappointments. This is not conjecture and not a secret. Cadillac destroys its competition? The BMW 3 Series outsells the CTS 2 to 1. The sales numbers below tell the story. Despite an excellent Lutz refresh the CTS is doing about as well as it did when it was intro'd under Ron Zarella.

2005 CTS 61,512

2005 STS 33,497

2005 SRX 22,999

total 2005 Sigma = 118,008

2008 CTS 58,774

2008 STS 14,790

2008 SRX 16,156

total 2008 Sigma = 89,720

Can you run a factory building a dedicated platform at an entry-lux price point profitably at 100K units? Industry rule-of-thumb says no. And sorry, but the DTS does not compete in the same market as the S-Class or 7-Series. They're not even in the same price class.

You're dreaming if you think a new GM will have the cash to mobilize an all-out assault on BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi. Just not going to happen. Europeans have rejected Cadillac, Americans are lukewarm to it and the Chinese prefer Buick.

Well.. leessee...

>>"GM has failed miserably to get Cadillac anywhere on the same plane as BMW and Mercedes in terms of prestige."<<

Cadillac's segment sales share in the 3-series segment in 2000 : 0%

What is it's segment penetration as of '08?

CTS is very much so "on the same plane" as B & M. CTS-V destroys it's competition.

>>"Sigma has been a disappointment sales-wise..."<<

What were the official projections ??

>>"...and probably profits too."<<

Conjecture.

>>"It just didn't deliver like they thought it would."<<

Conjecture.

>>"The large sedan market is rapidly contracting so cars like the DTS are doomed."<<

Pathetic-selling S-Series & 7-Class :wink: doomed, too, or will the S-Series :wink: just continue to be the fleet monster it is ??

>>"Chevy-based Escalade has been the most successful Cadillac image-builder lately..."<

It's not "Chevy-based" as this generation was developed con-currently. It's GM-platform based, but not other-division based.

>>"...the second GM division's future is tied heavily to Chevrolet. Probably an easier and more cost-effective mission for Buick."<<

Conjecture. If a bankruptcy goes thru, the crushing debt obligation should be at least greatly reduced, if not eliminated. Money saved from the expected 'good GM / bad GM' split should finally free up more than enough cash to develop a 2-division Corp more effectively than it's been for years... but admittedly that's conjecture on MY part; I don't have any numbers to base that statement on.

Do you?

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Where are you getting your numbers? Or are you just comparing the M3 to the CTS-V?

Yes, I agree the CTS and CTS-V are fine cars.

The CTS, especially in V form, is a world beater, and almost outsold the 3 series or whatever was #1 in sales in the segment before the market crapped out. I don't know how it's selling compared to others right now.
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FYI--2008 entry lux US numbers, from Edmunds.com:

- BMW continues to dominate the entry-level luxury sedan and coupe category with sales of 110,371 3 Series. No surprise there, but note the resurgence of the Mercedes-Benz C-Class (up 13.8% to 72,471) and the continued solid performance of the Infiniti G35/37 (64,183). The Cadillac CTS is also hanging in there well at 58,774 while the rest of the pack is still struggling to break free from the 50,000 unit range (Lexus IS - 49,432; Acura TL - 46,766; Audi A4 - 40,656).

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Where are you getting your numbers? Or are you just comparing the M3 to the CTS-V?

Yes, I agree the CTS and CTS-V are fine cars.

Sales wise I was referring to the regular CTS...I don't know teh exact numbers, but i recall it was doing very well.

If you want to see proof of the "world beater" status of the V, just check out some comparisons...like this one.

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Sales wise I was referring to the regular CTS.

If you want to see proof of the "world beater" status of the V, just check out some comparisons...like this one.

I'd love to have a CTS-v...but I'd be happy w/ a regular 3.2DI/manual one. The only nits I have w/ the V (besides being out of my price range) are the front fascia and limited interior color and trim choices.

Edited by moltar
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Nothing like a thread about positive Buick news that's been hijacked to Cadillacsville :cussing:

Edited by wildcat
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Nothing like a thread about positive Buick news that's been hijacked to Cadillacsville :cussing:

Ah, forgot it was a Buick thread..they just don't have anything as interesting as Cadillac currently, I'm afraid.. :)

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Nothing like a thread about positive Buick news that's been hijacked to Cadillacsville :cussing:

:chillpill: dude. :P

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It is not Buick's fault that they have nothing interesting. GM has starved them of products. Buick has hs some great concept cars that never see the day. Why because GM wants to protect their baby Chevy. Buick can be a great brand. There just not going to be able to do it with 2 or 3 cars.

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