ImportCArs VS. Muscle CArs

[NOS2006]

Well, I'd like to improvise the fact that the 4th Gens were on an old platform.

I like the handling of my car, but I guarantee the next one will be amazing. It's just a $17,000 car I have though, so of course the handling isn't anywhere near a higher grade car..

[Nick]

You say just a $17,000 car, but I got mine for under 20 as well. While mine isn't fantastic either, it still handles pretty decent, and after about 1000 bux worth of koni adjustables and eibach springs, 350 in eibach sways, and around 900 in Dinan Shock/strut braces then I will have one mean machine which can outhandle damn near anything put up against it (ok...well, maybe not everything...but a lot of things)

[NOS2006]

haha Well uhh.. yeah. After like $1500 of suspension work, I could have a great suspension too lol.

[Cory Wolfe]

Nick... I think my Grand Am could out handle your 5er after that suspension work. Actually, I'm so confident, that I'll bet you my pink slip. Yeah...

[Nick]

haha Well uhh.. yeah. After like $1500 of suspension work, I could have a great suspension too lol.

heh, yea...the shocks/springs and sways are gonna happen fairly soon though...the car is gettin up ther in age and miles so the suspension should be gone through anyways...the braces will have to wait...they can get very pricey for a nice set...especially when they have the name "Dinan" engraved in them

I could probably find braces that are just as good, and I know they are out there, but I like the look of the Dinans...

[NOS2006]

What year/how many miles is your car?

[Nick]

Nick... I think my Grand Am could out handle your 5er after that suspension work. Actually, I'm so confident, that I'll bet you my pink slip. Yeah...

Ok...we'll do a best 2 out of 3 race. First race is the canyon race. Second race is the 1/4 mile race. Third race is the Highway roll on 4th gear pull race.

Just call me when you are ready and I will drive all the way out there to meet you :AH-HA_wink:

[Nick]

What year/how many miles is your car?

Mine is a 99 and I just rolled over a 100k.

[NOS2006]

Damn!

Mine's a '98 and in the mid-52,000s

[Nick]

heh, yea...SoCal cars see a lot of miles. I drive atleast 75-100 miles every day during the week...weekends it gets its TLC and a bit of rest.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Nick

[NOS2006]

Damn! Why so much driving?

[Nick]

Let's see...School in the morning, 7 miles away...so 14 miles back and forth, plus 30 miles to work and I think somewhere around the neighborhood of 45 or so back (maybe more), plus whatever else I do during the day...I dunno...it's a SoCal thing...everyone commutes it seems...or atleast most people...it's really quite a normal thing out here.

[NOS2006]

Damn! 30 miles to work?

My school's about 3 miles away and the vo-tech school is about 4. Altogether, going to the vo-techschool, back home, then school, then home is about 14 miles a day. Then my work is about a quarter mile away. lol

[Nick]

On a good day it will take me 20/30 minutes to get to work...normal day (otherwise known as a bad day ) about 45-60.

[NOS2006]

You better get great pay and benefits for that ish lol

[Nick]

Heh, well, I do have a gas card, so my gas is covered, which is great for my car which gets on average 15 mpg . Not everyone else is so lucky though...I'm a chauffeuer...I get paid 60 bucks a day for about 2-3 hours worth of driving plus all the premium my car can drink...not a bad setup.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Nick

[NOS2006]

Heh, well, I do have a gas card, so my gas is covered, which is great for my car which gets on average 15 mpg . Not everyone else is so lucky though...I'm a chauffeuer...I get paid 60 bucks a day for about 2-3 hours worth of driving plus all the premium my car can drink...not a bad setup.

Damn, lucky ass.

*jealousy* lol

[Nick]

Can you imagine, I'm still living paycheck to paycheck ...

Take into consideration I am making payments on my car, insurance, maintenance, registration, everything...My car wasn't just given to me like some people

j/k

[NOS2006]

Dude, I pay all of that too (except the car payment itself). I had to get my registration and stuff renewed this month too. Shut up! lol

[Nick]

Dude, I pay all of that too (except the car payment itself). I had to get my registration and stuff renewed this month too. Shut up! lol

Go cry me a river

[Cory Wolfe]

Alright, Nick. I'm ready... *jumps up in excitement that he will finally get rid of that POS*

[NOS2006]

lmao, At least BV admits it.

[Nick]

Yea NOS...when's your turn?...you know, denial isn't just a river in Egypt...

[NOS2006]

My turn for what? You ain't gettin my pink slip.

$h!, that slip's white for me anyway. lol

[Cory Wolfe]

*laughing his ass and saying "Nick's so gullable* Hey, Nick... we need to arrange the date of when my Grand Am will decimate your 5er and basically... I will become the owner of it. *still laughing* You too, NOS. My GA will open a can of whoop ass on your poser Camaro. *laughing uncontrollably, falls over onto the red carpet, which, stays red*

[Nick]

BV, you must be smokin some good $h!...and you ain't sharin you bastard!

[Cory Wolfe]

Me? Smoking? That's blasphemy! Never would I do such a thing! *laughing, once more, starts to say "only if someone gave i...", falls over again. the carpet... still red*

*singing* My GA... My GA... It's so fast... It's a blast... You will drool... It's so cool... My GA... My GA... Don't look now... It will wow... Watch it turn... No concern... My GA... My GA... It's the best... Try to test... It will win... Not by thin... My GA... My GA... You want to pick... You know you do, Nick

Edited January 16, 2006 by blackviper8891

[Nick]

o...m...g...

roffle waffle

:rotflmao:

[NOS2006]

That dude.. can't.. be serious. :rotflmao:

Edited January 16, 2006 by NOS2006

[Cory Wolfe]

I am totally serious... so much so, I added it to my sig. It's the best song in the world and ever written. All for you, Nick. Rock on, dudes and dudettes! Long live the godly Grand Am!

[funkypunnk]

Hypothetically speaking... let's say I have 1999 Nissan Silvia Spec R, specially imported from Japan. It's a 4cyl. It has about 240hp naturally aspirated and fully stock. It's more practical than a Firebird, is lighter, handles much better, has more hp, and... has a 4cyl. You said any 4cyl ricer. Would you race for pink slips since you are so confident that your V6 Firebird could take on any 4cyl ricer? ...Yeah, that's what I thought.

Remember, I said dollar for dollar. Your "specially imported" sylvia is gonna cost some money to legalize for US. My V6 firebird is already legal, so I'll put that money into the car. I am starting with 200HP and about 500 extra lbs. so all I really need is another 100HP. A 3500.00 new blower will give me that much and more, or I could slap on a used turbo off of a junkyard t-type and get it even cheaper. I am also betting that the shipping on your sylvia will hit you for a grand or two, plus the cost of the car itself is higher than a V6 firebird. Dollar for dollar, I will walk away with your pink slip.

As far as ricers swapping in Acura motors into Civics, do you get those motors for free? Last time I checked a complete motor with all accessories, manifolds, electronics, and wiring sets you back a good chunk of change. I gotta imagine the more powerful Acura 4 cyl. Vtec blah blah super-rice motor would cost you more than 3,000.00. There is my budget. We won't even talk about the stock civic clutch blowing up or the halfshafts tossing their CV joints.

My point was that if an apples to apples comparison was made, dollar for dollar the ricers are a gigantic waste of time, Why start from behind?

[Cory Wolfe]

Remember, I said dollar for dollar. Your "specially imported" sylvia is gonna cost some money to legalize for US. My V6 firebird is already legal, so I'll put that money into the car. I am starting with 200HP and about 500 extra lbs. so all I really need is another 100HP. A 3500.00 new blower will give me that much and more, or I could slap on a used turbo off of a junkyard t-type and get it even cheaper. I am also betting that the shipping on your sylvia will hit you for a grand or two, plus the cost of the car itself is higher than a V6 firebird. Dollar for dollar, I will walk away with your pink slip.

My point was that if an apples to apples comparison was made, dollar for dollar the ricers are a gigantic waste of time, Why start from behind?

Alright, then... I'll go find myself an S13 240SX (US Silvia) for about $2000. Swap in a SR20DET engine for about $4000. Bam... instant whatever-year-your's-is V6 Firebird conv. beater for $6000. Use to the rest to go above and beyong just beating it for only the worth of your Firebird. Dollar for dollar, your pink slip will be mine. And actually... that's something I plan on doing with my future 240SX. What were you saying again?

[NOS2006]

With $4000, you can head/cam, turbo, and add nitrous to the Firebird (given you use ebay motors for the turbo and maybe n2o).

Edited January 16, 2006 by NOS2006

[Nick]

With $4000 I can buy...3 rims for my car! What do I win?!

[Cory Wolfe]

Hold up, NOS. He said dollar for dollar. His Firebird... isn't going to cost $2000 for there to be $4000 to spend on that, now is it? Didn't think so. Older ones? Yeah, but he said his. His is atleast a 98. You see? Dollar for Dollar, his pink slip will be mine.

[NOS2006]

How much is this Silvia you speak of, then?

[Cory Wolfe]

If I lived in Japan, I would tell you.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

mmmm S13s dont come cheap anymore... they are however really light weight... but u can turbo an K-series engine that comes stock with the S13s, its really a great block despite being a truck engine.

an S13 may outhandle a F-body...

[Cory Wolfe]

mmmm S13s dont come cheap anymore... they are however really light weight... but u can turbo an K-series engine that comes stock with the S13s, its really a great block despite being a truck engine.

an S13 may outhandle a F-body...

Search Autotrader.com. There are plenty below $3000 and some for $2000. Those have engines... One without could possibly be had for $2000 and below. Cheap enough.

[funkypunnk]

Alright, then... I'll go find myself an S13 240SX (US Silvia) for about $2000. Swap in a SR20DET engine for about $4000. Bam... instant whatever-year-your's-is V6 Firebird conv. beater for $6000. Use to the rest to go above and beyong just beating it for only the worth of your Firebird. Dollar for dollar, your pink slip will be mine. And actually... that's something I plan on doing with my future 240SX. What were you saying again?

First, not legal as a Jap-spec engine does not meet our emissions requirement. Following this school of thought I could swap in a 350HP brand new V8 crate motor, with a warranty, for less than 3500.00. Now I'm up 80HP more than I needed and I haven't even started yet.

Second, I'll just pick up an average fairly used 95 3.8L V6 firebird coupe for around 2500.00. Third I thought those swaps were 5-6000.00 including electronics as the ignition systems were completely different and therefore requiring custom harnesses. As the 240 is like 2700 Lbs. and the SR20DET motor is like 205HP, I will need 270HP to equal the same 1HP:13.5Lbs. power to weight ratio. I need to find only 70HP for less than 3500.00. A true dual exhaust with headers in stainless will only bust me for 800.00 and give me 25HP. A cold air intake is another 150.00 and gives up 15HP. I'll wrap 2.00 worth of fuel line inside a Maxwell house can filled with dry ice and get another 5 HP just off the colder intake charge. Add a set of larger injectors for 600.00 and give me another 30HP. Retune the PCM (250.00 for the tuner) and get anywhere between 25 and 45HP conservatively. Now throw in some underdrive pulleys for 700.00 and give me 15 more cheap HP. For free I'll shed 400 lbs. off of it by throwing out the spare tire, back seat, inner fenderwells, a/c system, radio, console, back glass, side glass, etc. Now I'm way ahead on horsepower, lighter to boot, have a fun little race car, and I didn't even take the easy route with a blower, turbo like you did, or nitrous. Heck, I couldhave added a 100 shot of NOS foronly 250.00 and smoked you right there with no other engine work. I could port, polish, and gasket match the heads for free and get at least 25HP from that. If I pull the engine completely apart I could also lighten the rotating mass, balance, and blueprint for the price of a gasket set. I could also save half of the cost of that exhaust I mentioned earlier and just go with a pair of dumps in front of some cheap mufflers and run open for the races.

I hate to go into such detail, but we have to keep it apples to apples you know. If you want to race, I am willing. I have swapped engines just for the sake of one race before, so it's no big deal.

There is no way that you can tell me that ricing up a car is cost-effective. It may be a personal choice, but that's about it. You know why it's so popular in California? Because there are alot of Asians in California and they prefer Asian cars. They didn't do this because it made sense, they did it out of personal preference. Nowadays, though, everyone defends it like it is some magical formula:

Ricer+NOS+Stickers+DumbassSuperWing=SuperRicer

Actually it equals waste of money.

[Sixty8panther]

I stopped by the local VW/Porsche/Audi dealership tonight to see if any new GTIs had shown up.  Nope... but I did see a gorgeous new Cayman S, all black.  Man oh man, if I ever win the lottery...

Ocnblu:

They're not even air cooled anymore.... I could never buy a Porsche over a Corvette/Z06. Porsche has lost it IMO.

I don;t think I could ever buy one new car from Germany that would comst more than a mint condition 1969 Camaro & a nice 1959 Electra 225 Riviera combined. Three years later the Buick & F-body have APPRECIATED while the Porsche is worth 1/2 of what you paid.

[Sixty8panther]

If I lived in Japan, I would tell you.

By the time you buy one, get it over to the USA, legalize it and get it registered & Titeled (+ lawyer fees) you'd have spent less money just buying a $50,000 CTS-V. That will eat any Nissan short of a Skyline for lunch, spit it out and ask for seconds while getting better fuel economy.

C'mon BV, I know what you're saying in terms of us being closed minded but f@#k, just because they always loose in the HP/$ wars the Japanese & germans always bitch about Handeling and curb weight. Why does everyone think we can't make an American car handle.

How many guys have to do up a pro-touring 1969 Camaro or '66 Mustang and kick Rice ass before we get some respect in that dept.? Dude, if the Japanese have so many great cars that can kick American Ass why don't they bring it ot the American LeMans where the Corvette wins 93% of the races.

Remember those 1/2 finishes of the two Corvettes at the 24 Hours of LeMans? Yeah the Ferrari team and all those exotics can talk smack about how the Corvette can't handle but in the real world they choke like a fat kid on a chicken bone!

[Nick]

I don't think anyone is saying american cars can't handle. We all know that isn't true...The Vette is the prime example. There are plenty of others as well, take the Ford GT for instace or did someone say Saleen S7? Caddys handle pretty well also...I thought this was just about F-bods anyway...

[NOS2006]

They're not even air cooled anymore.... I could never buy a Porsche over a Corvette/Z06. Porsche has lost it IMO.

Porsche hasn't lost it, IMO. They've just broadened the horizons!

They just proved that they have it with the Carrera GT. Ending that, they now have a little more time and money to improve everything else (hold the Cayenne).

[Sixty8panther]

AS of late I just don't pay attention but I think I lost a ton of respect for Porsche wiht the overpriced 1st gen Boxter. I don;t care how well it handles or how sophisticated it is.... it I payed $45000 for a car and it get's killed at a green light drag race by a Four door cars Costig $24 then I've got a screw loose.

I really miss the genuine sound of Air Cooled Porsches. A water cooled 911 will always be a dissapointment to me... althoght at least the new fascia is a big improvement over the old melted jelly-bean clusters.

[Cory Wolfe]

First, not legal as a Jap-spec engine does not meet our emissions requirement. Following this school of thought I could swap in a 350HP brand new V8 crate motor, with a warranty, for less than 3500.00. Now I'm up 80HP more than I needed and I haven't even started yet.

Second, I'll just pick up an average fairly used 95 3.8L V6 firebird coupe for around 2500.00. Third I thought those swaps were 5-6000.00 including electronics as the ignition systems were completely different and therefore requiring custom harnesses. As the 240 is like 2700 Lbs. and the SR20DET motor is like 205HP, I will need 270HP to equal the same 1HP:13.5Lbs. power to weight ratio. I need to find only 70HP for less than 3500.00. A true dual exhaust with headers in stainless will only bust me for 800.00 and give me 25HP. A cold air intake  is another 150.00 and gives up 15HP. I'll wrap 2.00 worth of fuel line inside a Maxwell house can filled with dry ice and get another 5 HP just off the colder intake charge. Add a set of larger injectors for 600.00 and give me another 30HP. Retune the PCM (250.00 for the tuner) and get anywhere between  25 and 45HP conservatively. Now throw in some underdrive pulleys for 700.00 and give me 15 more cheap HP. For free I'll shed 400 lbs. off of it by throwing out the spare tire, back seat, inner fenderwells, a/c system, radio, console, back glass, side glass, etc. Now I'm way ahead on horsepower, lighter to boot, have a fun little race car, and I didn't even take the easy route with a blower, turbo like you did, or nitrous. Heck, I couldhave added a 100 shot of NOS foronly 250.00 and smoked you right there with no other engine work. I could port, polish, and gasket match the heads for free and get at least 25HP from that. If I pull the engine completely apart I could also lighten the rotating mass, balance, and blueprint for the price of a gasket set. I could also save half of the cost of that exhaust I mentioned earlier and just go with a pair of dumps in front of some cheap mufflers and run open for the races.

I hate to go into such detail, but we have to keep it apples to apples you know. If you want to race, I am willing. I have swapped engines just for the sake of one race before, so it's no big deal.

There is no way that you can tell me that ricing up a car is cost-effective. It may be a personal choice, but that's about it. You know why it's so popular in California? Because there are alot of Asians in California and they prefer Asian cars. They didn't do this because it made sense, they did it out of personal preference. Nowadays, though, everyone defends it like it is some magical formula:

Ricer+NOS+Stickers+DumbassSuperWing=SuperRicer

Actually it equals waste of money.

There are enough 240SXs running around with SR20DET engines, regardless. I couldn't care if it's legal or not and that has no effect on what I said. You originally said your V6 Firebird, not a 95 coupe for $2500. Your's. Going by the worth of your 98-02 V6 Firebird conv, the 240SX I described will dominate your Firebird, dollar for dollar. See what I am trying to say? You said your's... I came back with a car that fit. Simple. You can't change the original motif of your original post.

I'm not saying ricing up a car is cost effective... I'm just trying to defend cars that are being unfairly bashed and try to bring everyone back down to reality. You don't like 4cyls? Fine, but don't bash. You don't like high rpm engines? Fine, but don't bash. You don't like something made outside our country? Fine, but don't bash. You're an F-dody fanatic? Fine, but don't ignore their faults. You're an American car fan? Fine, but don't ignore their faults. And so on... I never even commented on ricing out a vehicle. I hate rice.

By the time you buy one, get it over to the USA, legalize it and get it registered & Titeled (+ lawyer fees) you'd have spent less money just buying a $50,000 CTS-V. That will eat any Nissan short of a Skyline for lunch, spit it out and ask for seconds while getting better fuel economy.

C'mon BV, I know what you're saying in terms of us being closed minded but f@#k, just because they always loose in the HP/$ wars the Japanese & germans always bitch about Handeling and curb weight. Why does everyone think we can't make an American car handle.

How many guys have to do up a pro-touring 1969 Camaro or '66 Mustang and kick Rice ass before we get some respect in that dept.? Dude, if the Japanese have so many great cars that can kick American Ass why don't they bring it ot the American LeMans where the Corvette wins 93% of the races.

Remember those 1/2 finishes of the two Corvettes at the 24 Hours of LeMans? Yeah the Ferrari team and all those exotics can talk smack about how the Corvette can't handle but in the real world they choke like a fat kid on a chicken bone!

Tell me when and where I said American cars can't handle and I'll respond. Yeah... I never said that. I said a stock Silvia will outhandle any stock F-body. Don't like it? Too bad. It's the truth. I mean, I think it's common knowledge that F-bodies weren't the best handling cars in the world. So why the hissy fit? A much lighter RWD coupe with better weight distribution and such outhandles it. Big deal. I think it'd be a shame if it couldn't with all the things F-bodies have against them. It's not my fault the F-bodies have horrendous front and rear overhang coupled with a ridiculously short wheelbase that set it up for less than worldly spectacular handling. Blame GM. Regardless, you of all people should know that I would never say such a thing. Forget what car I think is one of the best handling cars to come out of the 80s? Appearantly so...

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

a little 4cyl import will still get better gas mileage than a CTS-V when it isnt racing :AH-HA_wink:

plus american cars tend to be slightly outhandled in the twists, which means the smaller ligher imports would have an advantage on winding roads... given equal drivers that is

[Nick]

AS of late I just don't pay attention but I think I lost a ton of respect for Porsche wiht the overpriced 1st gen Boxter. I don;t care how well it handles or how sophisticated it is.... it I payed $45000 for a car and it get's killed at a green light drag race by a Four door cars Costig $24 then I've got a screw loose.

I really miss the genuine sound of Air Cooled Porsches. A water cooled 911 will always be a dissapointment to me... althoght at least the new fascia  is a big improvement over the old melted jelly-bean clusters.

I just see the Boxster more or less as a regenerated 914...I don't know what you thought of the 914, but it was an air cooled VW engine. I'm not sure of the price it was at the time, but it wasn't a very sophisticated car, nor was it very fast...it handled well though.