G. David Felt

Time for Schooling, @smk4565 Per Wikipedia own website: Because Wikipedia cannot be considered a reliable source, the use of Wikipedia is not accepted in many schools and universities in writing a formal paper, and some educational institutions have banned it as a primary source while others have limited its use to only a pointer to external sources. Reliability of Wikipedia - Wikipedia Should you use Wikipedia as a credible resource? – Connors State College Should university students use Wikipedia? | Students | The Guardian Students are told not to use Wikipedia for research. But it's a trustworthy source (theconversation.com) Is Wikipedia a Legitimate Research Source - Term Paper (termpaperwarehouse.com) There is both sides to this coin and depending on sources cited in the Wiki page, some might actually be factual and valid for research and siting. Yet others are not and as theconversation.com site says as I have also seen elsewhere, spotting fake info is of the utmost importance than just citing something and saying it is true. Wiki is right on in saying that they are a great place to start looking for info, but one must do diligence to ensure that the facts are factual. Yes, everyone makes mistakes and even I have made mistakes on sources, writing, etc. This boils down to apple-to-apple comparison of the facts and not mixing things up to fit one's personal narrative due to their belief being proven wrong on a subject. This thread has been on a company that is producing EVs and NOT forgetting about performance. Comparing ICE to EV is an Apple to Orange comparison and as such, while one could say in old technology the numbers stand at XYZ, New Technology now stands at ZAB and future will be ABC. Science is all about comparing like items and as such, ICE is used as a standard for EVs, yet EVs are surpassing ICE and the time is coming where nothing ICE can do will compare to where EV will go. Evidence is in the stories you post that are all older than the EV stories or videos I posted. As such, in the past, we are now talking about the exciting future of where we are today and are going tomorrow. Have a great weekend, David

Tesla has this coming in the 2024 model built in Texas. Replacing 70 plus parts with a single cast frame system has already been stated to reduce weight by 400 pounds. Tesla has stated they plan to add in 2025 a front single cast system replacing the 80 plus frame parts and another about 400 pounds. As such Tesla is moving to the core frame of their autos to be a 3 piece system. I suspect that GM, FORD, Asian, European, etc. all Legacy Auto OEMs are prototyping single cast or dual cast frames for their EVs. The company that supplies Tesla has already admitted that both GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW and VW/Porsche are talking with them for single cast machines to simply their next gen EV platforms. I think once you reduce all the parts to cast frame that allows a much more solid assembly while reducing weight you will see EVs get much closer to ICE in total curb weight. Remember how Legacy OEMs moved to Aluminum and High strength thin steel to replace heavy dense normal steel dropping on average 500 to 700 pounds for trucks and SUVs. It will always be an engineering exercise to simplify, products and reduce weight for the auto industry.

Weight will always add slowness to any auto, EV or ICE. As such, you compensate with more horsepower and torque. Common Sense! That being said there is no reason to not have an EV even with more HP / Torque outperform an ICE and Tesla is almost there far more than Porsche, Audi, VW, BMW and Mercedes. Affordability is coming, economy of scale is what GM and Hyundai are focused on. Yet Hyundai is also not forgetting Performance nor is GM. GM seems to be going at it from top down based on the rumors about Corvette Coupe, Sedan and SUV EV based on media reports. Hyundai has always been about frugal fun and as such, IONIQ 5 N edition will be interesting, and I forecast as economy of scale for battery packs, lower priced performance EVs will get there. Mazda did not have the Miata at the start, Mercedes did not have any AMG 1,2,3 series at the start, nor did BMW, Audi, etc. Performance ALWAYS has come after luxury and top end models are out which pay for the expensive R&D. Example, Mercedes EQS Globally, Tesla S Globally, Cadillac Lyriq, Porsche, etc. everyone has to pay for the R&D somehow and they are doing it with the top end first, pushing into the lower priced brackets as economy of scale builds. Hyundai has given us two AMAZING Concepts that to quote them are Rolling Labs on the roads / racetracks to prove what can be done with performance, yet Hyundai IONIQ and Kia EV are out first and the Genesis Luxury EV is in China and coming to the rest of the world this year. IONIQ 5 N edition is out in 2023, yes this will not be a $30,000 road going Miata equal or BRZ or GR86 as terrible built as they are with the engine problems they are having, but Hyundai is keeping all levels in mind as they R&D what can be done with performance and the videos of the Concepts in this thread show that track, drifting, etc. are all possible. I see NO GERMAN auto company that has built even a concept of a performance EV that can handle track or drift yet! Hyundai has and has a working proven concept. To QUOTE them, Track Optimized auto with proper cooling for Next Gen Driving Experience!

@A Horse With No Name Thought of you today as I found this Wood Worker who builds custom furniture out of old growth wood. Amazing stuff. Custom Woodworking, Tutorials, Epoxy Resin Workshops - Blacktail Studio Blacktail Studio - YouTube Enjoy guys, love the stuff he is building.

Starting this off with my run I just made to Home Depot to get a few parts for my automatic water sprinkling system I am putting in. A brand-new, Paper window license plate only, Mercedes Blu Tec SUV parked next to my Escalade. WOW talk about Noisy with Clackity Clackity Clack and a weird diesel exhaust smell. Must be the Pee they use to clean up the toxic exhaust. Went in and got what I needed and on the way back to my auto, a brand new Ram Eco-Diesel. WOW, quiet, but talk about SMELLY! That did not have the diesel exhaust smell, but that nasty dirty inner City Alley way smell of urine. How do people drive a stinking truck like that. Then park across from me running as they were loading up the trailer they were hauling with 80lb cement, a F350 PowerStroke. Traditional Diesel smell, but talk about noisy, I think the Powerstroke is the noisiest diesel out there today. Last auto was a laugh, a Honda 2000 that the young guy put a loud fart can exhuast on it, so revving away and not going anywhere fast and the largest wing I had ever seen on the back along with the carbon fiber ankel cutters on the front for down force. Interesting auto observation today.

Poo ?

When pushed during the quarterly financial meeting, he would only say Summer 2023, so I would expect end of Summer 2023 if production starts at the beginning of the year with deliveries by the end of the year if that. Tesla loves to Alpha, Beta test on their paying customers rather than do the real engineering work of testing before releasing a product to market. Since we have only seen 1 Cybertruck, I have to question just how much actual testing and real-world work has been done on the truck since no one seems to ever see test mules. I have to wonder if they will rely on what they did with their current auto's and when something breaks, they will then upgrade it to be more truck worthy. I would not want to drive let alone own a Tesla Cyber truck built in the first 18 months as the rest of Tesla autos have proven how much testing they do on the owners to fix and only now are the Tesla 3, Y , S and X pretty solid in certain areas, but still sucking after all this time in fit n finish. Tesla Cyber Truck Power Train should be pretty decent, but the rest of the truck and the unproven new battery packs are very questionable since real world testing does not seem to have been done yet.

MINI, the British brand presents the future model generations new design, one that is based on technological innovations, sustainability, brand typical driving pleasure as it reinvents itself for an all-electric future. PF0008994.mp4 This electrified go-kart feel with an immersive digital experience and a strong focus on a minimal environmental footprint is what the Concept Aceman is all about. This is the start of a new MINI design era according to Adrian van Hooydonk, Head of BMW Group Design. The focus is to redevelop the MINI icons with all the analogue strengths, in a digital future. A holistic user experience of light, movement, interaction and sound will define this MINI design language with surfaces from knitted recycled textile, contrasting colors, seamless digital controls with OLED display as the central interface. MINI will also design and give these new MINI's an independent unique sound, providing emotionally compelling drive for the new Experience Modes that will come with the autos. MINI Concept Aceman uses creative use of space with minimal overhang front and back as it maximizes interior space for comfort and storage while taking up little space on the road allowing for maximum comfort seating of five. This interior is what MINI calls MINImalism redefined. This bare essential cockpit is what the original designers has in mind from 1959. This takes the driver and occupants back to a focus on unrivalled driving pleasure with nothing more than a central round instrument and toggle switch bar, gear lever, steering wheel in addition to supportive comfortable seats. MINI believes they have created a modern and yet homey atmosphere in this Aceman interior. The dashboard is connected via structural braces that like the roof rack displays the Union Jack flag motif, reminding folks of the brands origins when gazing up at the sky from the interior. The MINI Concept Aceman has the following dimensions: Exterior length of 4.05 meters or 159 inches Width of 1.99 meters or 78 inches Height of 1.59 meters or 62 inches MINI Concept Aceman uses LED lighting front to rear with a front grill element allowing for different lighting scenarios depending on the owner's personal choice. This choice is continued on the inside as well where one has the option to choose from three Experience Modes for their complete vehicle experience. Personal mode - allows the user to transfer an image motif of their own free choice to the OLED display. This novel form of personalisation is complemented by a moving image projection on the dashboard which can, for example, show cloud formations, ocean waves and the shimmering surface of a swimming pool. The selected projection is accompanied by a suitable sound backdrop. Pop-Up mode - will provide you with eventful navigation and some surprising moments. The system suggests appropriate navigation destinations based on a category selected by the user, shows the route on the OLED display and via projection onto the dashboard. For example, you can choose an attractive leisure activity in the “Adventures” category, a popular restaurant under “Tasty” or a currently active event location as a “Trending” destination. Specific sounds are played for each category to bring even more of a sense of anticipation to the experience ahead. Vivid mode - an interactive design of the display area on the OLED display and the adjacent surfaces. This is an innovative entertainment function that can be used both during short breaks when stopping at traffic lights and while charging the high-voltage battery. Simply touch the touch display in the central interface to create coloured “letter bubbles” from the components of the “Aceman” lettering and move them left and right on the dashboard. The letters have their own movement algorithm and interact with each other in the projection by overlapping and forming fluid graphic shapes and patterns. The playful elements of Vivid Mode are underlined by experimental sounds whose rhythm constantly change with the interaction between user and vehicle. MINI Concept Aceman is about an immersive experience for the driver and occupants as they move around. PF0008981.mp4 Sustainability, recycled and kindness is the focus on this leather free, no chrome approach to the new MINI and yet that begs to ask the question, does this still make it a premium auto? If you want to see the World Premier of the MINI Concept Aceman, watch it here: WORLD PREMIERE OF THE MINI CONCEPT ACEMAN (bmwgroup.com) Hundreds of additional images can be viewed at the press release web page below. The MINI Concept Aceman: the first all-electric crossover model in the new MINI family. (bmwgroup.com) View full article

Yet the point of this story was about performance electric concepts that Hyundai are using to ensure they have Performance Electric. You cannot point to ANY Mercedes EV that can outperform the Tesla and as such you point to ICE. Apple to Orange Comparison. The fact that Tesla BEATS most of AMG Black auto's and only a couple ICE are a few seconds faster shows that Electric is about to take everything ICE had away and will do it faster, cleaner and better. Hyundai as even you said has built a lovely looking Electric Concept and I would say that all of us that have posted on this new release love the design of the N Vision 74. Just make it pure Electric and stop wasting time on the Hydrogen thing as the best place for Hydrogen is in the Commercial market in Medium and Heavy-duty trucks. Accept that fact that Mercedes has NOTHING right now to beat Tesla on, they also are losing out to other companies that are beating them. Example, Mercedes won ZERO Red Dot awards over the last few years for the Luxury Auto Segment and Hyundai continues to clean up as the best Luxury maker right now. Genesis Media Center : GENESIS SWEEPS THE BOARD AT RED DOT DESIGN AWARDS 2022 VW has won for their segment in the auto Industry but seems the rest of German auto companies have lost out to Asian companies. Red Dot Design Award (red-dot.org) Even Lowly Buick won an award last year. Red Dot Design Award: Buick Electra (red-dot.org) End Result is Mercedes is on a slide down, they are following and trailing other global auto companies living on past glory for sales.

Tesla reported earnings and info about the company. Tesla Cyber Truck will go into production summer 2023 but with a bit of bad news. No truck priced at $39,900, it will be higher priced, and he blames inflation for the increased prices plus they will produce the top end models first, so really like always Tesla never really was going to honor a low-end price on their truck, they want $75 to $100,000 auto's. Elon Musk Has Bad News About Tesla's Cybertruck - TheStreet

Cool, Choice Market is now also offering gas and electric rate for charging in Colorado. Choice Market Announces Disruptive Convenience Store Format with Autonomous Checkout (prnewswire.com) New Gas Station Lists Electricity Price Right Next To Gas (msn.com) Choice Market

Yet again, you clearly have not paid attention to the fact that Tesla Platinum S has more than proven itself at Nurburgring. Watch The Tesla Model S Plaid Set A New EV Nurburgring Lap Record (forbes.com) A Tesla Model S Plaid has set a new lap record for electric production cars at the Nurburgring, with an official lap time of 7min 35.579secs. Not the Taycan! For Racing again, NOT BMW nor Mercedes, but VW for EV record in racing at the same track. Volkswagen ID.R is “Electric Racing Car of the Year” | Volkswagen Newsroom (volkswagen-newsroom.com) Volkswagen ID.R Breaks Nurburgring EV Lap Record With a 6:05.336 (roadandtrack.com) If you have looked at any of the latest Hummer by GMC videos as I stated, they do handle for how heavy they are and EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES. Every leader has their day and then someone else comes along and beats them. GM had their day; Mercedes came along in the 80's to 90's and replaced them. Now it looks like Hyundai is doing it and Cadillac is starting to rebuild to get back to the Standard of the world. The next 8 years are going to really show the changes that will happen in the auto industry and YES, I expect Hyundai to deliver the next Pony EV car for people who want driving dynamics with Performance in the $30 - $40 K range.

Saw this that Toyota is hurting big time. Toyota Sales are Going From Bad to Worse (jalopnik.com) and then I see this on various sites Toyota Will Fix That Viral GR86's Engine Killed by RTV Sealant (jalopnik.com) Have to say the actual details show that Toyota is gonna feel the pain and buying back their first EV due to wheels falling off the auto is a terrible start to their EV portfolio. TMC Announces April Through June 2022 Financial Results - Toyota USA Newsroom Very interesting how Toyota will no longer let the public see their recalls, you have to enter VIN or License plate and state. Lookup Safety Recalls & Service Campaigns (toyota.com) I would say Toyota is a model to avoid!

Cadillac Magna ride has proven even in an almost 10,000 lbs SUV V edition they can make it handle. Engineering given time can pretty much make anything work. Just look at the handling and speed of the Hummer by GMC. 3.2 seconds in a 0 to 60 mph which you have used to quote performance all the time and on top of this with a low center of gravity, it handles well too even at the 9,000lb weight of that EV brick. As has been proven over and over, a Tesla Platinum S versus and AMG Black and Tesla destroys the AMG Black. Top Gear says it best, The Best Days of ICE are Over! With that, who says Hyundai N EVs cannot beat an AMG Black if they wanted too.

I have to say that the N Vision 74 is the first Performance Car in a long time that I would love to drive if I could fit. ?

Hyundai Motor's is on a fast forward push toward electrification from their luxury division Genesis to the core Hyundai auto's and even their budget brand Kia. All three brands are pushing hard to be electrified totally by 2030 and with that, the industry overall has gone with consumers taste for SUVs and trucks as more and more auto companies kill off the cars. Hyundai brought out their N sub-brand for only a couple performance focused ICE auto's and while outstanding in their selective categories, customers have asked for more including the electrified crowd wanting more performance in their EVs as they start to come out on the global market. Hyundai is showing their commitment to the car side of electrification by showing two functional concepts that demonstrate the company's commitment to the future focused on zero-emissions technologies. RN22e and N Vision 74 are Hyundai's inspirational examples of N's electrification vision. These two "Rolling Lab" concepts demonstrate Hyundai's ambition to not only become a leader in zero-emission autos but performance autos for the future. (Video) RN22e & N Vision 74 performance film.mp4 Hyundai's first electric concept is the RN22e which uses their innovative E-GMP platform and is a fully functional racetrack-ready performance sedan and packaged in the IONIQ 6 based streamliner design. Hyundai has tested the RN22e to maximize the three pillars that make up the N's performance focus. Corner Rascal - N developed cornering capability since the brand launch, providing e-LSD, Corner Carving Differential for N models. RN22e corner carving is accomplished by using torque vectoring with AWD. Optimized torque distribution for all different drive modes allows the driver to choose the torque power they want for front and rear wheels. Track optimized cooling and braking - RN22e provides track-optimized settings, allowing customers to enjoy circuit driving without derating the performance of the EV. Four piston monoblock calipers and a 400-mm hybrid disc system allows the RN22e to withstand the weight of electric system. Hyundai will use the RN22e to study and deliver superior dynamic movement with regen-braking that precisely controls yaw and corner attack. N Sound+ & N e-shift - Hyundai understands the connection humans have with sound, RN22e provides generated sounds from interior and exterior speakers that enhance the dynamic driving feel. N e-shift integrates vibration and shifting feel with N Sound+ to deliver an emotional driving experience. N Sound+ and N e-shift will allow the driver to select the driving experience they want enhancing the fun of driving their Ioniq EV. The RN22e leverage of the IONIQ 6's streamliner design helps to maximize performance with low ground clearance, emphasized shoulders with a distinct wide and sturdy stance. The low bumper design offers a sporty, radiating charm while enhancing cooling and aerodynamics according to the N's design team. RN 22e AWD Specifications: Total Max Power - 430 kW or 577 HP Total Max Torque - 740 Nm or 546 lb-ft Battery Capacity - 77.4 kWh multi-charging capable in 400V or 800V Charging time to 80%, less than 18 min. Max Speed - 250 kph or 155 mph plus Length / Width / Height / Wheelbase - 4,915 MM / 2,023 MM / 1,479 mm / 2,950 mm or 194 inches / 80 inches / 58 inches / 117 inches N Vision 74 is inspired by the Hyundai N 2025 Vision Gran Turismo and the Hyundai Pony Coupe concept from 1974. The N Vision 74 is a high-performance hydrogen fuel cell electrified performance car. Hyundai hired legendary car designer Giorgetto Guigiaro to design the 1974 Pony Coupe Concept which became prototypes for Hyundai's first production sports car. While the car did not see production, the daring attitude was set for the Hyundai corporation in setting the tone for the entire company of products. The N Vision 74 was given the pure surface from the 1974 Pony car along with a dynamic profile and unique B pillar and Parametric Pixel lighting to provide a futuristic look. N Vision 74 is a driver focused car first and foremost, while no interior pictures have been supplied, Hyundai does say that car has a driver-centric cockpit with a blend of heritage elements and modern design, having a digital cluster and analogue buttons. Hyundai's engineers developed this hybrid system of hydrogen / battery electric system that has improved cooling efficiency while using two different power sources depending on the driving conditions as you get torque vectoring from the twin rear motors for precise and responsive cornering and added electrical boost from the Hydrogen generator supplying electrical needs including additional boost, giving you both fun, performance, sporty driving while also allowing for long range and fast refueling times. The N Vision 74 RWD Specifications: Total Max Power - 500 kW or 671 HP Total Max Torque - 900 Nm or 664 lb-ft of torque Battery Capacity - 62.4 kWh with 800V fast-charging Hydrogen Tank capacity - 4.2 kg Fuel Cell stack - Max 95 kW Refueling time - 5 min Max Speed - 250 kph or 155 mph plus Length / Width / Height / Wheelbase - 4,952 MM / 1,995 MM / 1,331 mm / 2,905 mm or 195 inches / 78 inches / 52 inches / 114 inches Driving Range - Over 600 km or Over 373 Miles Project RM or what Hyundai calls "Racing Midship" was started in 2012 to embark on developing new technology and innovation which has brought to Hyundai a performance rear-drive, midship powertrain configuration. The fundamental difference of this design provides an ideal balance of handling and agility from a low polar moment of inertia and can be found in the N product line of autos. RM series has evolved to the current RM19, this platform facilitates an engineering rolling lab to test high-performance technologies while connecting to the tarmac at all speeds and driving conditions. The RM validating of advanced technologies, increase performance and end up in applications for future N models. Two years ago, the RM20e Racing Midship Sports Car was Hyundai's first High-Performance BEV and their first attempt at applying a zero-emissions powertrain to a high-performance car. This technology will now show up as it has been fine tuned in N versions of the IONIQ product line. 2023 IONIQ 5 N edition will be available for sale on the global market with more details about the IONIQ 5 N edition to be released closer to the on-sale release. More details will also be released on an ongoing basis from the N YouTube channel: Hyundai N Worldwide - YouTube Hyundai believes auto enthusiast will be excited to know they will have N performance versions of both Cars and SUVs in the future BEV product line. IONIQ Articles | Hyundai Worldwide Hyundai Motor’s N Brand Unveils Two Rolling Lab Concepts, Signaling High-Performance Vision for Electrification Era View full article