oldshurst442

I had an internal struggle regarding the price argument. Yes, an ICE version of the SAME model that also has an EV version, will be CONSIDERABLY LESS. No buts, ifs or ands. But we CONTINUE to bang that drum all across the EV board. And its kinda false. We seem to always make this argument and to justify our point we will take a LESSER ICE vehicle and compare it DIRECTLY to a more advanced EV model... Example from last week: We took a 26 000 dollar base Escape and compared it to a 50 000 dollar Mach E. Wrong in 2 ways: 1. base model family CUV 2. FAMILY CUV We then proceeded to compare the Mach E to its other brother. The Escape's bigger brother. The Edge. While the Edge is closer in spirit to the Mach E, THIS is where my internal struggle begins. While in those two scenarios, the Mach E and EVs in general, seem to lose the value argument on fuel savings and we equate that being more expensive than their ICE counterparts. BUT... after reading and listening to many other opinions on how ICE vehicles average transaction prices are going up and up and up...I started looking at another angle that EVERYBODY seems to miss. More or less on the Mach E rather than another EV. I done a quick research and found that a BMW X4 is actually about the same price as a Mach E... The exterior and interior dimensions are 99.9% identical. https://www.cars.com/research/compare/?acodes=USD10FOS392B0,USD10BMS261A0 In this case of a Mach E and a BMW X4, I wanna know why are we tooting that EVs are inherently pricier? Both are lifestyle, sporty coupey CUVs trying to sell to the same lifestyle, sporty coupey CUV buyer which is a more affluent buyer. And BOTH the Bimmer and the Ford are marketing to. The Escape is just a pedestrian, family haulin', CUV for the Average Joe. Doesnt seem logical to me to try and tell me EVs are pricier than when we do comparisons like that. When you look at the EV that is the Mach E and we compare it to a VERY comparable and SIMILAR ICE CUV in EVERY way INCLUDING to what market niche they BOTH belong to...then in THIS case I'll have to argue that: NO! EVs are not NECESSARILY more pricier than their ICE counterparts. At least in THIS case, they are actually the SAME price. I see progress to which EVs are starting to get price parity as their ICE counterparts ESPECIALLY when ICE average transaction prices are going higher. And when we choose to say that EVs are just 2% of the market place, its NOT the EVs that are making the average transaction price go up. Its ICE vehicles themselves. I dont want to confuse the situation and you folk will think that Im saying that EVs have price parity...Ive said in the beginning of this thought that turned into a long post that they do not. Its just that in the coming year or two, when many EV models will be available to the US consumer from GM, VW and others, many scenarios like this one will be replicated. And eventually, cheaper MSRP EV models will be introduced. When will that be? I do not know. But in the 40 000-60 000 dollar range, EVs will CERTAINLY be on par with their ICE counterparts offering same interior and exterior dimensions, luxury and options and even LONGER drive ranges than fuel tanks...

Scooby-Doo! Mystery Machine

1821-2021

Imperial Oil

Yeah...I know. You disbelieve.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-biggest-car-brand-launches-031639709.html The bolded parts have all kinds of implications. Especially if those goals are met... We could dismiss all of that, but I find it intriguing to where Geely wants to go in the global market place. Especially with what they own or co-own and/or are partnered with... Couple that with the many other Chinese cheaply priced EVs and things get real very quick to what kind of future awaits us in 2035...

Oh...THAT is actually a thing. Its actually a way of life in MANY places on this planet. JUST because in America we like to live large does NOT mean the rest of the world lives large like we do. But dont kid yourself, even in North America, there is a big enough movement to where our very own society is ceasing to consume voraciously and couple that to where the ones that DO consume voraciously wont be able to because our personal debt load cant sustain that shyte any longer and before you know it, we in North America WILL start living like my mom did in Greece... Forget EVs, Balthy...we might be buying donkeys... 1. to farm our own lands again and to use as personal transport. 2. probably cheaper to buy, own and maintian a donkey than it is a car. Any car. And yes, Im being sarcastic. But not really. We do have a huge poverty problem in North America and it aint getting smaller or resolved. So by you mentioning the tiny house revolution as a way to mock this, Ill turn it up and make sure that we are aware that North America's poverty problems and personal debt load is severe... A tiny house in 2035 might just BE the norm in North America to go along with that crude 4 000 dollar Chinese EV...

Well.. Consumers wont have a choice... ICE will be banned past 2035... Cry, yell, moan, bitch. Or laugh. ICE is no longer going to be sold past 2035. Oh...your classic V8 car. Yeah...you will be able to own that. Wont be able to daily drive. Probably only on a track or on a "special" 'remember the good 'ole days' day 2 times a year or something...

Still doesnt change the fact that: 1. American market car sellers are pushing higher priced cars on us 2. We...are continuing to buy higher priced cars and we buy into the useless tech they push on us that inflate the prices. In fact, they dont need to push that shyte down our throats because we are the ones DEMANDING that shyte be sold to us. 3. Cars that we cant afford hence the 84-96 month payment plans and leases we like to do 4. there will come a time when we wont be able to afford none of all that 5. there WILL be SOMEONE to offer lower priced cars eventually, even though NOW we, as American and Canadian consumers, are scoffing at that idea 6. And it WILL be cars that are rudimentary despite the fact the we are currently snubbing that trend and we want uselss shyte in our cars that cost a fortune but the car makers also make money off of our stupidity. 7. Because as a North American society going forward, we are living more and more on debt...and something will give, sometime in the near future. 8. couple that with the banning of ICE...because THAT is our destiny 9. so...there WILL be a BEV that WILL be downgraded in features for our boring daily routine drives. Be it a BEV from China or some other start-up because by the way it looks, GM, FoMoCo, Toyota, VW are only interested in making big bucks off of shyte we really dont need in our cars inflating the price tags...like I mentioned Or...GM, FoMoCo, VW, Toyota will reverse that trend. Maybe we as a society will come to our senses. Or...by having one manufacturer producing one platform and selling it to the many OEMs that want to sell an EV to the masses... (yeah...this argument again) But there WILL be a solution...

Time stamped to where I wanna it to be And if you listen to that... you will realize that its NOT just EV vehicles that are expensive for the everyday American, but ICE powered cars too. And THE solution that YOU folk want, well, it might NOT be from GM, Toyota or VW, like I say as well, that an affordable EV will come from traditional big ICE players, but from some start-up that will find and break the code as he says... And it WILL be EV... and THAT is how India WILL be 100% EV by 2030. Here in North America...well We too, might go the way of owning CRUDE cars like the Model T once was... Prices of ICE cars are shooting waaaay up, yet all I hear about in this thread at least, is the cost of BEVs being out of reach and out of touch... We all need a reality check...on all sides from all sides concerning all sides.

I dont think Cadillac will cease producing V8 'Slades that early in the decade despite Cadillac's determined EV destiny.

1970 Buick Electra 225 coupe and sedans.

I didnt listen to the other reports. I was just interested in the Cadillac news. If that is what was said, Ill join you with the hysterical laughter

I wish I had more info on this, but it seems that Escalade and Escalade ESV will be offered in both V8 and Battery Electric in 2024. Ultium battery operated.

So...you would punch ME in the face? ? I am a Cowboys fan too. (I LOVE that gif)

You could buy automobiles at Starbuck's now? Since when? ?

Yeah...I remember seeing such a vid. I didnt realize its this same Buick. Ill go searching for it on here later in the afternoon

Just as I was going to bed...Im very sleepy you know...you just HAD to start the boogie. Now I cant. Good night people!

^^^ I could arrange that!

Yeah. Its awesome. I know you wanna visit Quebec for other reasons too, but if its ONLY to see the fall colours with the leaves changing, Vermont does it nice too if our borders arent open still by then.

Isnt hockey great? Such a strong emotion that the game gives us, that we want to punch our opponent's fans in the face. I mean, in football, there are some team's fans you wanna clobber. Eagle's fans. Raider's fans. Some say Cowboy's fans. But that is where the hatred ends. In hockey though...EVERYBODY wants to bash in EVERYBODY's face in. Yeah...Hockey is awesome! You could feel the love in the air. Beautiful. Just beautiful. Bora Bora and the big mountain in the background and it looks like King Kong could reside there. Pago Pago and it looks like the calm before a nasty torrential rain storm.

Crazy. Yes! Even crazier if there is gonna be a buyer for it at that price. But it is such a niiiiice car though. Wouldnt mind owning it.

Habs fans certainly need a punch to the face. Well...Habs fans of the '80s. Today's Habs fans are just...well...you got to feel sorry for them. More pathetic than Habs fans are Maple Leafs fans. Ive heard though, the absolute worst fans are Bruins fans (from Boston....Im a good fan as Im...not from there...) and Flyer's fans. Well...Ive heard that Boston and Philly sports teams fanatics in general are jerks. So...could I make a suggestion? Wouldnt you rather punch a Bruins and Flyers fans in the face instead?

Phoque off with that shyte There is no place for that kind of talk here. Speak what you need to speak, but if you are proven to be an idiot, then you are an idiot... Dont insult others for your idiocy...