oldshurst442

Luxury and being rich is ALL about the excess. There are some excess-es that I wouldnt be indulging in if I were stinkin' rich, like having a butler or chauffeur, but being wrapped in the laps of luxury with French bordelo red velour and leather in my car AND bedroom is very shagadelic baby, yeah!

Yes. I could see why you would think this way. You are consistent with this view as you dont like the French Bordelo red velour interiors of American luxury cars of the '70s. You think those are overwrought as well. And you would be correct with both views of this Mercedes EV and the '70s land yachts. I, however, prefer overwrought-ness for my luxury cars. I wouldnt have them any other way.

^^^ They dont know...have NO PHOQUING IDEA about EV tech and EV performance...

I am not sure that Mercedes and AMG have got the EV technology figured out yet... But I do have to admit that Mercedes does know how to do a luxury EV interior right! And it also has a lot to do with the bluish ambient lighting both on the dash from driver to passenger and on the bottom areas of the cabin and in the little open storage compartments underneath the central console and doors and in the footwells. Very elegant for a neo luxury EV interior.

I sense some doubt in those chosen words of yours and your subsequent sentences...

Heard this one at the start of summer sometime in the first week of June! Number 5 is alive. This is the only thing I remember from the movie. And of course the song...

Since we are into 1987 and 1984 respectively... I will be sharing Lisa Lisa and New Edition. Good 'ole American pop I actually heard this one today! Bonus Lisa Lisa

@trinacriabob YOU...just rick rolled us with the whole bloody song!!! You dont love us or what? I must admit though, I DO like his songs... He had/has a great voice!

^^^ I appreciate those sounds, @Robert Hall!!!

Not...even this?

^^^ From France

What about a cat driving a car? I present you, Tounces, the driving cat. The cat that could drive a car. Drives around, all over town. Tounces the driving cat!

Does it really though? Help? AWD adds heft. Cornering might be more balanced as the AWD would balance the turning forces by adding or subtracting thrust to the wheels that have the most and least traction...yes! But adding heft also DESTABILIZES those same forces so new suspension and steering parameters have to be accounted for, calculated and solved. Add heft here with AWD, but subtract heft there to counter added said heft will also be an engineering calculation... I think adding AWD is just changing 4 quarters for a dollar... Because this statement is also true... Engineering is great because MULTIPLE solutions could be achieved through different engineering philosophies and the result would be mostly the same... I say...depending what IMAGE one car and its maker want to portray to its potential clientele is what AWD and RWD or even FWD is what AWD, RWD and FWD does to a Nurburgring lap time...

You always have to try to belittle another company to prop up Mercedes, dont you? LOL Whether or not after market equipment were used, especially after market stuff that is engineered for the car in question and could be acquired through various shops or dealerships that are kinda mass produced for the car in question, it really doesnt matter... It just shows what kind of loyality and support there is to improve said vehicle from various outlets. And whether it comes from the factory or factory supported after market outlets, it all boils down to one thing, that said vehicle is engineered superbly and could really achieve what was planned to achieve. Porsche, like the Corvette, has extensive racing cred. Porsche, has a very loyal following and the 911 is a legend. It is no surprise that a 911, whether from the factory or from a group of hot rodding entities could achieve such an endeavor. Mercedes has entered this domain to try to capture a little bit of glory from the 911, from the Corvette, from speciifc Ferraris and dare I say it...the former Dodge Viper. Mercedes has thrown all its got into the AMG GT to try to dethrone the 911. Its primary target. Its going good for the AMG GT as its a formidable speed machine. If the AMG GT could survive as long as a Corvette and a 991 have, then kudos to Mercedes for it. But, many manufacturers have tried and failed to keep interest and longevity into a sports car long term. Again, part of the mystique of a Corvette and a 911 and the Ferrari mid-engined sports cars is that these sports cars have been around for ever and it seems they aint going away... It seems that every now and again, new entries arrive with the goal of trying to dethrone these 3, but failure is ALWAYS the end result for them. Even when the chips were down for both the 911 and Corvette, they eventual over came extinction and thrived even stronger after nearly dying. The AMG GT has a really really big hill to climb. Performance? NAH! They got that down pat! A following is what they need. This is the 1st gen. And its a great success both performance wise and in the market place somewhat. But...now with a new gen 911 JUST around the corner and the C8... Mercedes has got its hands full... The launch of the AMG ONE has not arrived yet. Its a project that has cost plenty of R&D money. Money not necessarily that Mercedes had and maybe the development of a proper 2nd gen AMG GT could suffer for it. After all, the transition to EVs might be just THAT much more important. And even if monies for a 2nd gen AMG GT is available, how much dedication would it really have... But the thing is, building a loyal clientele takes lots and lots of time and money. Something that Mercedes does not have regarding ICE development and/or for the AMG GT itself... And...regarding the AMG GT itself, how much of a loyal following does it REALLY have. Is it enough to justify another generation. A hybrid? A full on EV? The AMG GT is a new entry. Only 7 years on the market. How does Mercedes know if the clientele it does have will follow and buy the AMG GT if its a hybrid? Or an all out EV? Again...THAT is the mystique of a Corvette. 68 years of history and data to what the clientele want and do not want from a Corvette. It was a gamble for the Corvette to go mid-engine. But the Corvette had 60 years (late 50s) of saying to its clientele that maybe THIS is the year/generation the Corvette will go mid-engine. It took 60 years for this development to happen. One could say that its easy for the AMG GT to be done whatever Mercedes wants it to be made as it only has 7 years under its belt. Well...7 years is not that much of a time to build an emotional connection to the car. Nothing special has the AMG GT accomplished. Oh...its got 1 record at 1 race track... BIG DEAL! Like I said, the C8 is new, a new generation of 911 is JUST around the corner. A new Ferrari mid engine has JUST been introduced. The AMG GT sales might just drop even further making Mercedes question if its worth spending a fortune on a new generation... Remember, Mercedes thought it could be like Chevrolet, Porsche AND Ferrari. Something that Mercedes is NOT. Mercedes is Mercedes. But even Mercedes does not know what it is... The AMG ONE is to compete with the high engineered, high dollar garage queen stuff Ferrari makes. Problem is, THAT is what Ferrari ALWAYS done. Make these supercars, to sell to finance racing. Win races, and then use that racing mystique to produce more freakish street cars to sell to people to race further. Win and use THAT win to fuel more passion for the street to produce another outlandish STREET car to sell to fuel another racing victory... THAT is Ferrari. Mercedes built that one supercar way back in '54. Then it became an econobox convertible. Then it had nothing for a LOOOONG time. Until Mercedes got its hands on Chrysler for its cash to make the God ugly SLR. One and done. Then it got its hands on a Dodge platform to make a retro Gullwing. Then it got jealous again of Ferrari, even though Mercedes has won in F1 many a time obliterating Ferrari, Ferrari still has ITS MYSTQUE game on!!! Hence the fetish to outdo Ferrari with the AMG One. And it seems nobody cares. Especially Ferrari. Ferrari is as arrogant as ever. Ferrari LAFERRARI... Who the phoque names a car after themselves? Ferrari that is who! Ferrarri has got some arrogant ballz to do that. And guess what? The market place ACCEPTED the car and its name...why? Because its FERRARI!!! THAT IS WHY!!! And then they go and create the world's most powerful naturally aspirated internal combustion ever. 6.5 liters of their very famous V12. Even MORE famous than Mercedes' V12!!! And they call THAT car the SUPERFAST! Yeah! LIKE NO SHYTE ITS SUPERFAST. AND FERRARI NAMES IT THAT!!! Because Ferrari has the following for them to do that kind of arrogant shyte! Mercedes also wants a piece of Porsche and the 911. They create the AMG GT. But they want theirs to be a V8 and front engined. Why? I dunno why? Corvette envy too? Bet they didnt see the C8 coming!!! The problem is that to do shyte like that, it takes billions upon billions. Porsche was their life to do 911s. They had to branch out to stay alive. Parent company or whatever Volkswagen is to them lends a hand. The thing is, the 911 has 60 years of development and very very very loyal following. Mercedes is NOT a boutique sports car builder. Not anymore... And even when it was like in '54. THAT car only lasted barely 9 years and 1 generation. The SLS retro didnt last half of that and only one generation and they STOLE Dodge's development and used their platform... The thing is...Mercedes has other, more lucrative markets to cater to. More important business cases to fulfill rather than a low volume....VERY low volume sports car that iits ilk is heading for extinction anyway as these types of cars have a dwindling following. YOU said it yourself! The 911 was NEVER gonna be defeated by Mercedes with the AMG GT neither in performance nor in the market place... In the short term, the AMG GT would have some successes, yes. But NEVER in the long run...

As I have said before, I am not into numbers. I am happy that you are however. I did take a looksie about the Nurburgring's latest lap times and I was curious to see what cars have these records and to my surprise, that bolded part of your sentence is wrong... And my curiosity was picked BECAUSE you mentioned AMG GT and 911 GT2 RS... I read quickly a couple of days ago, or even last week or two, that the latest Porsche 911 GT2 RS reclaimed the fastest lap time over at the 'Ring, but I kinda knew something about it that you mislead us to believe about lap times at the 'Ring and AWD... https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/nurburgring-lap-records-definitive-rundown Can you guess what the misdirection is? Well... Let's start with the list: 1 - Porsche 911 GT2 RS - 6:43:30 2 - Mercedes-AMG GT Black Series - 6:43:62 3 - Lamborghini Aventador SVJ - 6:44:97 4 – Porsche 911 GT2 RS – 6:47:25 5 – Radical SR8LM – 6:48:28 6 – Lamborghini Huracán Performante - 6:52:01 And then the list of cars just repeat themselves with another Radical and Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a Lamborghini Aventador SV with a Porsche 918 Spyder in between.. The top 6 cars I listed, only the Lamborghinis have AWD... I wasnt sure the AMG GT had AWD, I didnt think so, but I KNEW the Porsche GT2 RS wasnt AWD...and I confirmed it!!! AWD is NOT a criteria for fast Nurburgring lap times!!! Further more, like I have said, Porsche has SPECIALIZED the 911... A 911 GT2 RS is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 Carrera which in itself has many variants, which is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 Turbo which is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 GT3 and so forth... The Z06 WILL be the VERY first time that a STREET Z06 (because the very first Z06 was a RACE car back in '63) will be RADICALLY different from the base Vette and SPECIALIZED to BE a REAL hard ass track car. (There is a rumoured Z07 package to return for the Z06 trim that debuted with the C7...) Furthermore, even when this happens, Corvette is a Chevrolet, not a BOUTIQUE maker and so the Corvette Z06 wont be micro perfected year after year like how Porsche does to its many many variants of the 911. The Corvette is NOT its own brand for that to happen. Porsche's 911 is an INCREDIBLE machine. Porsche has perfected this machine and CONTINUES to MICRO ADJUST it year after year. They have managed to create plenty of variants that differ GREATLY from one another. THIS is what makes a 911 so phoquing great. The Corvette is nothing like that. But THAT is not what Corvette is anyway. In terms of engineering, the Corvette is taking a mass production concept, engineering it to be world class and state of the art, to a price point because the Corvette is to be priced at a level where it could be mostly attainable by high middle class people, and achieving high levels of performance that competes (meets or even beats) with the very best of the high dollar performance supercars of the world. The Corvette will be the fastest in most categories when a new model comes out with the subsequent various trims and the like, but will take a back seat shortly thereafter when Ferrari comes out with yet another million dollar hypercar but only but a handfull will be produced and will actually be a garage queen. And when Porsche loses to the latest Corvette, but will MICRO perfect a certain 911 variant for the next 5 years that will eventually dominate. And THAT is what YOU see. But you JUDGE NEGATIVELY BECAUSE the Corvette hasnt been perfected to those extremes. A faster variant will be released, but in terms of the Corvette's faster variant, its not SPECIALIZED as how the 911 is. However, when a new generation Corvette hits the streets 7-8 even 12 years later, the Corvette blows everything away again and the cycle repeats itself... But THIS is where the Corvette mystique kicks in: 1. That kind of level of performance to a price point that COMPETES with sports cars costing 2-3-4 times as much 2. That kind of high level of engineering to when even a chassis that is 8 years old before a new chassis comes out and the Corvette STILL competes performance wise with the LATEST offerings of cars costing 2-3-4 times as much... 3. The AFTERMARKET is soooooo great for the Corvette that an enthusiast could buy himself a CHEAP, USED 15 year old Corvette, dump money in it, not a whole lot of money either, and BLOW AWAY the NEWEST AND GREATEST of the SUPERCARS... All backed by CHEVROLET performance... 4. The FACT that Corvettes, are BUILT to last to BE driven hard and THAT is why soooooo many OLDER Corvettes are STILL on our roads being thrashed and raced... 5. which guarantees new Corvettes to be built and sold because there is ALWAYS a rabid fanbase wanting to buy these things new, generation after generation 6. the fact that these are NOT boutique sports cars, yet offer an incredible amount of customization, now with the C8 at the factory level, BUT ESCPECIALLY at the aftermarket level, but they dont break the bank, and there are literally THOUSANDS of them available for you and I to buy them. 3 different philosophies between Ferraris sports car making, Porsche 911 and the Corvette. Not one is more superior to the other. Just different approaches for each to have their own allure and mystique. So dont rag on the Corvette. Dont find little things to denounce it. Dont be surprised if the C8 Z06 in 2023 will claim the fastest Nurburgring lap time... NO! AWD is not a NECESSITY for it! The top ten fastest cars at the 'Ring and the Porsche 911 GT2RS is on it 3 times. 3 different variants of it. Let me remind you Yeah! That would be a Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a Corvette Z06 test mule beside it...

Not all. Actually, most SLs in history have a very very generic styling. McLaren SLR? Its not a beauty queen by any means. Its just as ugly as any Ferrari in this era... You are very fanboyish to even think that these cars you presented are nicer than Ferrari in the same time frame. Even if its your opinion on them... Ferrari went ugly, I agree. But for you to diss Ferrari but be serious to tell me that you find these Mercedes cars better looking is telling me you are not genuine... Ill give you the Gullwing AMG SLS. In this time frame, the SLS blows ANYTHING that Ferrari created in the looks department. But had it NOT been for Chrysler for the cash and Dodge for the platform, the SLS would have NEVER been created... Everything else is just as ugly, as Ferrari. In some cases, very generic. At least Ferrari cannot be accused of being generic... But thank-you for responding.

Yeah...you are. Somehow...the others eventually found that 48 seconds to be that quick... The C7 is NOT a C8. The C8 is a NEW machine. The C8 hasnt got track focused suspension. It has GT suspension aided by GM's magnetic ride. The Z51 package on the BASE Stingray just has slightly beefier suspension bits and adjustable camber to be a LIGHT track car. The Z06 will probably be lighter as it will probably have some carbon fibre to replace the aluminium and fibregalss pieces that it will be replaced by for starters. The Z06 will have active aero so that the air will pass through it will less friction PLUS having better down force. Better tires for track. Those famous Michelin Pilots for starters. And we havent even talked about the suspension.... If you think that the Z06 will have the Z51 suspension parts on it, you are either one blind fanboy that simply doesnt WANT to see and acknowledge what other OEM's engineers do with their sports cars or you are clueless to what is what... The Z06 mules had the Porsche GT2 RS running along side it as Corvette engineers are benchmarking it... If you think the Z06 will be a softie in Germany at that famous track of yours, you are sadly mistaken...

Problem is that, the Z06 is simply not JUST extra power and suspension tweaks... Like I said...FINALLY, the Corvette is getting to be SPECIALIZED. You cheer too much for your brand and you rag and JEER too much on the Corvette. Rag on GM all you want. THAT dont bother me. Do NOT rag on the Vette.

They are not doing that... WTF are you rambling on about? The Vette is still the Vette doing what Vettes have been doing since 1955 when a V8 was dropped under the hood. Its mission has NOT strayed away actually SINCE 1953... It changed its personality here and there because of what the market place was doing in the 1960s (muscle car era) and then the 1970s (gas crunch becoming more of a luxury GT car) and then again in the 1980s (back to what Duntov wanted for the car), but a slight change in focus has NOT changed what the Vette has been since 1953. And the C8 is no different. Well... Lets be honest here, a c63 and a SL 63 have had really substantial changes during their production runs... The C63 has the 190 as a predecessor. An ECONOBOX shytebox. The SL has had SIGNIFICANT market changes. It started out as the SUPERCAR GULLWING mega car to being a lowly econobox convertible in its 2nd generation... So... NOT the same thing is it? Irony with YOUR opinion is that the Corvette came out EXACTLY at the same time as the Gullwing. 2nd gens of BOTH were ALSO at the EXACT same time... Your point of view and opinions are seriously flawed...

Price is NOT a criteria of why the Corvette should or shoudnt sell better than an AMG GT or any other sports car in this price range. There are many criteria as to why cars like these sell over one another. Corvette has a mystique to it that an AMG GT does not have. 1953 versus 2014. The AMG GT is a new entry that is 7 years old. The Corvette being and having 68 years of legendary history behind it and the C8 being mid-engine for the first time in its history is reason enough for a person to forego an AMG GT and buy a C8 Corvette as reason #1 Reason #2 is that a C8 Corvette BASE has all the performance requisites that ANYBODY could EVER need on the track and on the street. Reason #3 is the Z06 which WILL be available for sale in the very near future. Late 2022 or early 2023 some say. Maybe earlier than that. Chevy is very very mum on that... Maybe the Hybrid E-Ray will come out sooner... The Z06 will meet and possibly beat the Black Series AMG GT performance specs all for half the price. And THAT is reason#3 why someone may buy the Vette over ANY trim AMG GT... Its coming... Promise me you wont find any excuse to belittle the Vette when it does beat your cars that you just mentioned. Promise me you wont try to dismiss it. It seems you forget that Vettes set the record when a new model comes along and the Euros scramble to beat it. It seems that YOU ignore that Porsche and Lambo are BOUTIQUE sports cars and their makers are PRIMARILY producing all these variants BECAUSE that is what they do. The Vette is just the Vette. It has only now gained a few trims here and there to try and specialize to compete more closely with the MANY Porsche 911 variants that Porsche engineers. The C4 was just the C4, then a ZR1 came along. But the C4 ZR1 was not a specialized beast. Then it left but the LT engine family did the rest of the heavy lifting with the LT5 variant... The C5 was just the C5 but a track focused Z06 came along. But the C5 Z06 was still not a specialized track car like a 1995 Porsche 911 GT2 was... The C6 had the base. And then the Z06. Then by a miracle, GM green lit the ZR1. And the ZR1 was a failure in the market place because its mission was not all that clear. The C7 came along and Chevy from the get go had base, Z06 and ZR1. The C7 Z06 was a convoluted marketing mess because Chevy did not have a clear and concise mission for it. They supercharged the engine when it was supposed to be a track car. However, in the market place, all three C7s made the Vette fans want MORE... The C8 looks to have a more structured direction with the base Stingray, E-Ray, Z06, ZR1 and Zora. But if one looks at a Porsche 911 today, there is an endless amount of specialized 911s one could buy from Porsche... The Vette has to be hot rodded with the after market. Not in-house like the 911 is from Porsche... At least the hot rodding community is backed by Chevrolet Performance... No. the Z06 is not AWD. That is gonna be offered in the later models. But guess what? YOU will be surprised and SHOCKED what Chevy Corvette Performance engineers are capable of...

Yes...of course. It makes sense. For the women that got vaccinated...

@smk4565 I am waiting for you to tell me what was the last Mercedes Benz car to be beautiful to you. I truly want to know so I could judge you and your tastes... I want to compare your beauty M-B with the same era Ferrari and then compare your M-B beauty with the history of Ferrari beauties as a whole... Then we could discuss M-B's overall history of beautiful cars too if you would like...

From Holland It has English subtitles. On the 2020 C8 from Oct 2020. I just listened to this and it supports my opinion. And yes, that is why I posted it. But my opinion was ALWAYS based on stuff like this...

@smk4565 You are miffed that the C8 is the sales king outselling your brand's sports cars. And when the Z06 meets (and very possibly beats) the M-B GT's 'Ring times, you will only be saltier...

So? The Vette in THOSE areas would be sold to affluent folk anyway... You act as if in China, extremely rich folk dont buy cars with big displacement engines... You act as if the Ferrari 458 didnt sell in China because there is a 40% displacement tax. The 458 is 4.4 liters. And costs 3 times as much as the Vette even in China... And in Germany... The LORE of the Vette is more than enough to sway them to buy it... Maybe you should stop being such a self hating American...