ccap41

@DavidI legitimately appreciate your civil discussion where we can go back and forth without the childish name calling. Not trying to be a smart@ss but you did mention not being able to fit into the previous generation of EVs, have you gotten to test fit a Hummer EV yet? If so, do you think you'll pull the trigger on one yet? I know you like pretty much everything about them. @David, I was out running Friday and saw one of these! Funny enough, I managed to see an R1S before I’ve seen an R1T. Aaaaalso, funny enough, a day later I saw my first R1T but j was driving so I couldn’t grab a picture of that one. I had to zoom in quite a bit because it took a couple seconds to get my phone out and camera open so it’s pretty bad quality.

The context of that sentence was only renting, FYI. I did not mean it for ownership. I also completely agree with this and I believe I even stated that in the Hertz Rental thread. I just said within the next five years, the stated delivery dates of the vehicles, I don't think it will be ideal or beneficial for the renter. What I said previously: "And I think that'll happen. I think it'll get to the point of a lot places having a charger or two for customers(one would probably suffice for most smaller businesses). I don't think it'll be that way within the next five years though."

Exactly, @David, I am certainly on board with buying and owning an EV. To make it sound like I'm some anti-EV guy is absurd(but that's Olds for ya). This is no different than saying I don't think a Camry is a great tow vehicle, there are just better options for the given situation. That is one thing that's great, is there are so many different vehicle options and everything can be great for a given situation. Everybody's wants and needs are different and that's no different here. I wouldn't want to deal with an EV if I'm a renter but, I think it would be PERFECT for me to own. I'd even road trip it and charge publicly. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing to do. We all just know that isn't truly an IDEAL situation.

I've actually timed filling my MKC up with 13 gallons (15.1 gal tank) in 3 minutes. You are full of it thinking it takes 10 minutes to pump 15-20 gallons or 33 gallons in TWENTY MINUTES. I'm not trying to be a smart@ss here, but will you record this next time you fill up? I'm just curious to actually see how slow that pump is flowing. "Light passenger vehicles pump up to about 50 litres (13 US gallons) per minute[5] (the United States limits this to 10 US gallons [38 litres] per minute[6]); pumps serving trucks and other large vehicles have a higher flow rate, up to 130 litres (34 US gallons) per minute in the UK[5] and 40 US gallons (150 litres) in the US. This flow rate is based on the diameter of the vehicle's fuel filling pipe, which limits flow to these amounts."

Call me Tucker, CNN, Fox News, whatever. It's still more of a hassle to rent an EV than an ICE vehicle. You guys can go rent your EVs and show me how convenient it is. As a wise man once told me:

You're right, the whole process is completed in 5 minutes, give or take a minute or two. It's completed in less time than walking to and from your charging EV, let alone moving it to a parking spot and getting back to what you were just doing.

@David, thank you for giving me a legitimate response. One counter to burning fuel in heavy traffic would be that a parked EV still uses electricity, more in the extreme temperatures, hot and cold, but they do use electricity when parked. I do also dig the idea (that I just learned yesterday, actually) that the Hyundai/Kia twins have accessory power in the boot. They're not F150 levels but still a heck of a lot more than most outlets in the back of vehicles. That's GREAT that there are chargers at MOAB!

Then will you please re-quote that because I must have missed it. Do you really believe every hotel has public chargers available? 100%! That's why they gave it a ~212kw battery. They knew what they were doing and who they were marketing it towards. My wife's G55 is almost identical to your SS, 12mpg on premium. It's ATROCIOUS... but we love driving it. It's also why we take my vehicle waaay more often than not. 12mpg on premium vs 25mpg on regular.

So @oldshurst442, will you please explain to me, and dumb it down as much as possible because I'm having a difficult time understanding - obviously - , how is it more convenient to rent an EV than it is to rent an ICE vehicle?

Oh that isn't annoying. Let's plug in, go walk around, walk back, move car, continue on with what we were doing. How is this more convenient than an ICE vehicle again? Which is it? As long as there aren't trees around, there probably isn't a single vehicle better than it from the factory. There are some good ones out now, but I bet this would walk all around them.

Is that charger EXACTLY where you're wanting to explore? Also, you're going to leave your car parked at a charger for 2-3 hours? If it's a Supercharger, Tesla will charge you for idling your vehicle at a charger. Exactly. I've said this dozens of times here. Owning an EV is great. You get all of the benefits of an EV, charging at home over night, leaving home fully charged, and charging is super cheap at home. All of those benefits go out the window when you rent and and don't have access to charge overnight.

There are soooo many more places in the US that aren't the largest cities. But, like I've already said, agree to disagree because I simply do not agree with what you're saying is actually making the user experience better than an ICE vehicle would. That's simply all I've said the entire time. The user experience is more inconvenient renting an EV than it would be renting and ICE vehicle. Nothing you or David has said has proven that it is more convenient to rent an EV than an ICE vehicle. You've, to summarize, just said, "it isn't that much worse." But neither of you can come up with a reason why it would be a better user experience to rent an EV over an ICE vehicle. At least you're remaining civil.

What in the fck are you talking about? Agree to disagree, I just don't think that's a good application for EV adaption. It's a vehicle sold to the public. It isn't a commercial-only vehicle. David posted the article (which was just a link to the actual article. I'm not sure why he didn't just post the actual article.) and I laughed at the inefficiency of it. Just because they're not advertising it as efficient doesn't mean efficiency doesn't matter, hence the artlcie written AND David's link about it's efficiency. Why not get on David for posting a link to ANYTHING related to the Hummer's efficiency? If the efficiency doesn't matter, why even post an article about it? Oh, I'm sorry Dodge literally advertises their vehicle to be track capable. Do I need to post the screen shots from their own website again or are you just going to dismiss them as if the company isn't advertising it as a track car? So, on one hand you're saying that the company needs to advertise the vehicle to do a thing(efficiency - Hummer) but on the other hand if the company does advertise the vehicle to do a thing (track capable - Hellcat Challenger) you'll dismiss it because you don't see it as a track-ready car. I guess you're just trying to have it both ways.

Regardless, it's still atrocious. I'd say the same thing if it were an ICE with 1000hp/tq getting 8mpg. It's one of those vehicles that's comically inefficient.

lol 1.6 miles per kilowatt is atrocious. Also, here's the actual article. https://insideevs.com/reviews/612030/hummer-ev-range-test/

Everybody knows Costco's super cheap fuel prices aren't the norm and the lines there are equally abnormal. The situation where it takes 30 minutes to fuel up an ICE vehicle is an anomaly and it's almost the norm when publicly charging an EV.

There is ZERO fear here. I'm simply stating that if I rented a Bolt or Equinox EV in 2023 (when they're available) it will, without a doubt, be more of a pain in the arse than if I rented a comparable ICE vehicle. Nothing you guys have said will make it more convenient next year to rent an EV without being able to charge overnight, at home, where EVs truly separate themselves from ICE vehicles.

1: according to Hertz's website, it takes an hour for 200 miles of range, 30 minutes for 100 miles, 15 minutes nets you 50 miles. This is only with a Supercharger. 2: the GM EV's, to the best of my knowledge, do not charge as fast as Teslas currently do. I could be wrong, but that would mean more time than a Tesla. Teslas can charge at a rate of 250kw and the Equinox EV can charge at a rate of 150kw. Looking at this more, Hertz is WAY off. Tesla is claiming 200 miles of added range in 15 minutes. If that truly is the case, you only need to spend 5 minutes charging and therefore that is not inconvenient. Oh I agree. I don't think this renting EV thing is a bad thing in a "forever" type of situation. I just think it will make it more of a pain for users within the timeframe of them getting 175,000 units to rent out. 2035-2040, I don't think it'll be an issue even in the slightest. 2025, I still think it'll be inconvenient for renters over ICE.

Nobody ever wants to spend time charging and EV or refueling an ICE vehicle. Ever. BY FAR AND AWAY the biggest advantage to an EV is that you never need to spend that time at a public charger/gas station and it saves you money. If you eliminate that aspect, what's the benefit of an EV?

At least in other countries, they charge you, like they do for ICE vehicles to fuel up. https://images.hertz.com/pdfs/ENGB_EV_RENTAL_TERMS.pdf We will record the EV’s battery status before we rent the EV to you and measure it when you return the EV. We ask you to return the EV with at least the same level of charge or 75% (whichever is lower). If you return the EV with a level of charge lower than this then we will recharge the EV for you at the rate of €0.80/sterling equivalent (inc VAT) per kW/h. e.g. 75% on rent charge – 55% return charge = 20% 20% x 100% battery capacity = 20 20 x 0.8€ = 16€ Recharging fee. If the EV battery status is below 20% on return an Administration Charge will apply in addition to the recharging fee because this increases our turn around times and involves staff time. Administration Charge = +€25 (inc VAT) No. Sht. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. ICE for rentals is quicker and more simple for the one paying the money to rent a vehicle. I know damn well that if I'm on vacation the last thing I want to do is wait for a car to charge. It has nothing to do with instant "gratification". It's just fueling a vehicle up. Literally nobody in the world WANTS to be doing that at any given point, ICE or EV. That's why EVs are so damn convenient for everyday use where people like you, Olds, and myself can charge from home and always leave with a full "tank". Renters do not have that luxury. they have to go into an app, in car or on their phone, find a charger, and wait. Some are at perfectly convenient locations, and some are not.

The concern of having to wait while charging? What's their solution, because I didn't see a section for that.

That's a great question but I do know you're always supposed to bring it back full, I'd assume the same would go for EVs, or they charge you an absurd amount per kilowatt to recharge. Again, this goes back to savings and convenience for the renter. If a rental company is going to jack up the price per Kw, like they do for gasoline, I'd assume AT LEAST $0.50/Kw. There goes any savings over a comparable ICE vehicle. Does it matter? It's passed. It's the user experience being slowed down. Nobody who is renting a vehicle wants to wait to charge or gas up.

And I think that'll happen. I think it'll get to the point of a lot places having a charger or two for customers(one would probably suffice for most smaller businesses). I don't think it'll be that way within the next five years though. This isn't fear. It just doesn't sound like it is benefitting the renter as much as an ICE would.

Yeah, and, like I said, it doesn't sound like it is adantageous to the renter as much as it is to the companies involved, Hertz and GM. It takes waaaaay longer to charge up and its costing them about the same amount of money out of pocket. Where's the benefit? Even if it's only a 20 minute top-up, that's 15 more minutes the renter is wasting, also assuming a DC fast charger is conveniently located.

In 5 minutes. They'll likely never be that common because the demand will never be that high as most people own homes and SHOULD be charging at home. Wasn't a massive EV charging something-or-other passed like two weeks ago to give states money to build up their infrastructure? https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-approval-first-35-state-plans-build-out-ev-charging