surreal1272

Damn. Another legend gone. RIP David Bowie.

Don't care for the black plastic looking cover in the center of the hood (looks cheap) but 600HP is a steal for $54K. Very sharp looking too.

Very sharp! Just go ahead and slap that GNX badge on it and call it a day!

Then why bring it up? Because you are trying to move that bar again, that's why. I have nothing ore to say about since you can't keep your argument straight when you have been called out. Enough space has been wasted on the subject.

I have never been a BMW fan, their styling never really did anything for me, but I do respect the E39, the V10 M5, the E46 M3, the F30 3-series and inline sixes. I can respect their products, but I would never buy one, they aren't my cup of tea. That being said, I have to defend them here. In 2015, 58% of Porsche sales were SUVs. This was once a sports car brand that is on its way to having 2/3rds of it sales trucks. BMW still has 70% of its sales volume from cars. That is huge percentage, as all the non-germane luxury brands are under 50%. As far as the X5 goes, it is a rear drive platform, you can get a 450 hp V8 or 580 hp V8, or whatever the M has. The Acura, Lincoln, Lexus crossovers and the SRX are front drive products, basically family sedans on stilts with a V6 out of a Cam-Cord. They are garden variety stuff. I am not sure what is "mojo induced" about any Lexus or Acura SUV, but BMW is making an X7 SUV with optional 600 hp V12 power. Will a 600 hp V12 be enough mojo for the suv segment? The only reason BMW's CUV percentage isn't higher is because it is up against the five or six variations of EACH car model (3,4,5,6,7 series have more variations than you can shake a stick at) so those percentages you are touting are way misleading. Finally, the X5 was BMWs best seller last month and was second in yearly sales to only the multi-variant 3 series. What do you think is going to happen to that CUV percentage when the X7 comes out? So before the argument was made that BMW sells too many SUVs and that was bad. Bad for image to sell SUVs as a luxury brand. Then as it turns out they sell 70% cars and only 30% SUVs (the most car heavy luxury brand there is). Yet that is still bad because the X5, a high margin vehicle outsells a 3-series which is a bottom level vehicle. However at Mercedes the C-class, a sedan outsells the GLE, but that is also bad because the C-class costs less than the GLE. Then it seems that many more people want an Escalade over a BMW, yet BMW doesn't offer a full size SUV. So until the X7 is on sale we don't really know. And the X5 outsells the Escalade, because as was established the X5 is the #1 selling BMW for 1 month. Maybe the X7 will sell well, maybe it is too late to the game. Personally I think the X7 will gain some traction in the market place, and that segment isn't really growing so it will more than likely steal from established players. I never made any argument about BMW and their CUVs (they are not SUVs) so maybe you need to take that argument up with those who brought it up. I am merely bringing up the reasons why their percentage is as low as it is and why that won't last. Oh and the X5 outselling the Escalade means diddly squat since they do no compete with each other, hence the arrival of the X7. Did you somehow forget that in yet another attempt by you to move the bar? Geez.

An ESCALADE is UNTOUCHABLE in the realm of cachet, and NO AMOUNT OF BMW X6M HORSEPOWER comes close to that Cadillac in cachet... Like I said... Porsche, M-B, Cadillac, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Jaguar and others HAVE A SAY HOW SUVs WILL be MARKETED... And the X6M will BE LOST in that whirlwind of SUV madness... BMW was the one to DICTATE what is a LUXURY SPORT SEDAN...but with SUVs...BMW is NO WHERE NEAR the BENCH MARK!!! You realize the X6M is like the size of a Cadillac XT5 or Lexus RX right? It is not a full size vehicle, but as I just posted there is a full size X7 SUV coming. And who ever said BMW was a benchmark of SUVs? SUVs are 30% of BMW sales. What is sort of scary is if their car sales stay the same, but SUV sales rise, they could be at 400,000 units a year in the near future. I don't know that the Escalade is so "untouchable". It has cache, but it built a lot of that in the early to mid 2000s when there were few competitors. Aside from the GL, and there could be a Maybach GL, you now have Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lamborghini getting into SUVs. Those are heavyweight names. Land Rover is coming back pretty strong. And the Escalade is sill built on a Chevy truck frame. I think in the 2020s the Escalade will have to adapt and evolve as more and more better handling, more luxurious and more fuel efficient large SUVs hit the market. Who cares? Point is that the Escalade carries plenty of cachet and many would prefer it over the BMW. BTW, you seem to overlook that it is the best selling full size luxury SUV out there. We have talked about this before yet you keep bringing up this nonsense ladened criticism of the Escalade.

I have never been a BMW fan, their styling never really did anything for me, but I do respect the E39, the V10 M5, the E46 M3, the F30 3-series and inline sixes. I can respect their products, but I would never buy one, they aren't my cup of tea. That being said, I have to defend them here. In 2015, 58% of Porsche sales were SUVs. This was once a sports car brand that is on its way to having 2/3rds of it sales trucks. BMW still has 70% of its sales volume from cars. That is huge percentage, as all the non-germane luxury brands are under 50%. As far as the X5 goes, it is a rear drive platform, you can get a 450 hp V8 or 580 hp V8, or whatever the M has. The Acura, Lincoln, Lexus crossovers and the SRX are front drive products, basically family sedans on stilts with a V6 out of a Cam-Cord. They are garden variety stuff. I am not sure what is "mojo induced" about any Lexus or Acura SUV, but BMW is making an X7 SUV with optional 600 hp V12 power. Will a 600 hp V12 be enough mojo for the suv segment? The only reason BMW's CUV percentage isn't higher is because it is up against the five or six variations of EACH car model (3,4,5,6,7 series have more variations than you can shake a stick at) so those percentages you are touting are way misleading. Finally, the X5 was BMWs best seller last month and was second in yearly sales to only the multi-variant 3 series. What do you think is going to happen to that CUV percentage when the X7 comes out?

Again, that near bottom feeder C class was MBs best seller (of which there are FIVE variations of per MBs website) while you try to say that MB makes more sells off of their mid range luxury cars. Hmmmmm...lie much? The Encore is Buick's #1 seller and their second cheapest product. The SRX is Cadillac's #1 seller and their 2nd cheapest product. The Escape is the #1 selling ford after F-series, and the Escape is near the bottom. Lots of brands have their best sellers as the lower end of their line up. And I said 2 of the top 3 selling lines are middle level at Mercedes. C-class, E-class, GLE-class are their top 3 selling lines. There have been years when the E-class was their #1 seller. Perhaps the new one will catch fire and regain the title. CLA + CLA 55,236 C-class + GLK/GLC = 113,982 E-class + ML/GLE = 102,949 (add CLS which has defect replaced the E550 sedan and it is 109,101 units) S-class + GL = 49,641 The top and bottom are pretty close, if you add the SL and G-wagen to the top group they would outsell the A range. ( and those cars don't share platforms, I just lumped together by price point) You missed the point by a country mile. Look at your own numbers. Their best seller there is one of their CHEAPEST cars While you try to claim otherwise, the C class is NOT mid level. It was an entry level model until the CLA sub-entry car came out. The C class is still at the bottom of that totem poll in the grand scheme of things, no matter how you try to paint it. Point here is that almost all makes bets sellers tend to be their cheaper models, DUH! That obviously includes Mercedes. BTW, what in the world does the Escape, a NON LUXURY CUV have to do with anything being discussed here? The answer is nothing btw.

Again, that near bottom feeder C class was MBs best seller (of which there are FIVE variations of per MBs website) while you try to say that MB makes more sells off of their mid range luxury cars. Hmmmmm...lie much?

Yup. That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America! There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America. Hyundai and their Genesis model. VW with their Phaeton. Cadillac with their Cimarron. Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback. If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face. Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury... Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding... Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales... Quite telling... You realize 2 of the top 3 selling Mercedes model lines are GLE and E-class, which start over $50k right? The GLS and S-class together outsell the CLA and GLA most months. Mercedes volume is not from the bottom, it is from the middle of their line. Mercedes is not going to fall on their face. Daimler is on top of things right now, Frieghtliner has 40% market share and a 6 month waiting list for trucks. Detroit Diesel is at max capacity and expanding to meet demand. The commercial wing and the passenger car wing are both firing on all cylinders. MBs top selling vehicle, by a wide margin, was the near bottom C Class.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac. As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature. and where does it stop? If you are going to discount certain makes then why not go further and discount certain models like the CLA, which is no more a luxury car than some of the Buicks SMK wants to criticize for the same exact thing.

Where do you pull these comparisons from? Why are you comparing an ALL electric Mercedes to an plug in hybrid Volt? Sorry but that is just asinine. This is why nothing you say really means jack squat around here. Sorry to be the one to tell you but someone clearly needs to.

The range does not make it one of the best Luxury sedans, but it does make it one of the best compact eco cars competing with the Cruze diesel. They are in the same boat. its also a pretty asinine assumption to 1.)compare an election if model to a fossil fuel model and 2.)assuming that people are not shopping for range when it comes to EVs. He needs to step out of that little biased bubble of his, that's all I'm saying because I simply can't weather anymore of his silliness.

And like the i3 it has a crap range and it was limited to one state for sale so again not an apples to apples comparison here. Keep the excuses coming though. The M-B B-class electric is currently sold in 11 states.okay. That makes more sense but it still proves my point that no one ever heard of it for good reason. It suffers the same range problem as the i3. What is really funny though is that someone caught a case of the foot in mouth. He says that as long as Mercedes gets those big old V12s, then he is all for his favorite brand putting out electric cars. Guess it never occurred to him that GM is thinking that EXACT same thing. Get enough greenie credits from the EVs to keep putting out big old V8s. But hey, maybe GM can't do that because they don't have such a sterling reputation like MB (sarcasm wholly intended. See statements about how Daimler screwed Chrsyler six ways from Sunday while being run by such great engineers).

And like the i3 it has a crap range and it was limited to one state for sale so again not an apples to apples comparison here. Keep the excuses coming though.

please stop acting like you know what Cadillac needs and doesn't need because no matter what they do, you will bash them. Now, excuse me. I have to go to the Mercedes dealership to pick me up a cargo van. I think they're right next to the S Class. Well, as long as you have an excuse for Mercedes doing the EXACT same thing you criticize Cadillac for, it's perfectly okay. It's hypocritical but it's okay.

It's called investing in the future. Mercedes should try it sometime. Of course, the problem with the tech is that you don't see Mercedes offering and electric car. Then, I'm sure you would be offering a different opinion than "But that day ins't today, or any day in 2017". As far as the ELR remake goes, that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison. That should read "remark" not remake. Thanks again autocorrect.

It's called investing in the future. Mercedes should try it sometime. Of course, the problem with the tech is that you don't see Mercedes offering and electric car. Then, I'm sure you would be offering a different opinion than "But that day ins't today, or any day in 2017". As far as the ELR remake goes, that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison.

Btw SMK, my mentioning the Tesla was to point out the similar range for far less money. In no way am I trying to compare it in any other way. Point is that there is value in it whether you want to accept it or not. Remember, this is still fairly new tech so I find your "criticisms" a bit short sighted here.

Very nice. Now make it an SS and let the fun begin.

Again there is nothing wrong with the price and if you are griping about its price then you should gripe even more at the pricier, with far less range, i3.Let's see. Has the same range as $100K Tesla yet is only $37k. Yeah, real overpriced there. Comparing this to an i3 is also like comparing a Sonic to a 3-series. One is a BMW, one is a Chevy. The Tesla has slightly better range, but the Model S is also faster than a Corvette Z06. I don't believe the Bolt will do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. The Bolt is similar in interior, size, performance, etc to a Sonic, but it is double the price. That is a big premium for electric. This is another problem with electric cars in general. You pay more for range. That is like paying an extra $5,000 for a Chevy Cruze with a 23 gallon tank vs the standard car's 14 gallon tank so you get more range. No other car is sold on the basis of range. And that isn't just an attack on the Bolt it is on all electric cars. Only in your head. Like I said yesterday, the ONLY thing better on the i3 is the material quality of the interior. Everything else, it trails in, from the ugly outside to the pitiful range. Now using your logic about gussied up Chevys, why would anyone pay more than $40K outside of being able to say they have an ugly electric Beemer? After all, it is offering the criticism towards all electric cars.

Again there is nothing wrong with the price and if you are griping about its price then you should gripe even more at the pricier, with far less range, i3. Let's see. Has the same range as $100K Tesla yet is only $37k. Yeah, real overpriced there.

So what? That i3 starts at $42K with only 81 miles of range (119 less than the Bolt) and while the interior uses higher quality materials (it better for $10K more and only an 81 mile range), the overall design is a mess. Of course, it matches that horrible exterior though. The Bolt is priced just fien for what it is and what it does BETTER than that overpriced BMW Aztek Electric edition.

Real easy to skew those numbers due to the high number of leases out there. Not impressed.

Shall I post the thousands upon thousands of pictures of gas powered cars that burned to the ground with no reasonable explanation?