surreal1272

So I guess even Ford feels that the tech should be just as important as the "feel".

Take a look at your earlier posts on the previous page. Aside from what I just brought up, you completely ignored the fact that you brought this on form the start with the stupid "your not an enthusiast" nonsense when that is a crock of $h!. Understand my issue with you now? BTW, you say you PM'd the Ford trolls before, which I understand. How come you don't do the same for Bong here, instead of wasting pages talking about that very thing you said you don't want?

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry. I never said I was dismissing any aspect of either car. I also have not brought up engine tone, sound, volume, or noise into this thread. I have not made one comment on the sound of said engine in this thread. So I have yet so even put ANY emphasis on "noise". Suave put it perfectly, "All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience." Nothing about that dismissed anything about either car but said that a car is more than just numbers, more than just feel, it is the entire package that makes a great car a great car. Bong has thrown all the eggs in the numbers basket saying the 1LE will be "put the Shelby on the trailer." and that "Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350." Ignorant is measuring the greatness of a car from purely performance numbers, a la Bong. "Everybody" loves Miatas and GTIs for a reason, and it sure as heck isn't because they run low 11's in the 1/4 from the factory, sure as heck isn't because they have a howlin' V8 under the hood but because they give the driver an experience they cannot get in almost any other car. There's a good chance it's that. Are they slow? No. So performance numbers mean SOMETHING as well. Neither can be completely dismissed. BS. I understand about feel and what it means to folks. That's not my problem here. You think I am not an "enthusiast" because I don't look enough at the feel, which is a crock. Nothing you have said has made you any more of an enthusiast than myself. You act you are getting paid when you are just like me. You like cars. Nothing less, nothing more. The labels are just unfounded bull$h!. What's even funnier is that while you are criticizing Bong, you ignored (for months) the ignorant banter that a certain Ford lover was throwing out regarding the Camaro because you obviously like the Stang more. You its let it slide whereas here, you jump on Bong for doing the same thing that the Ford fan was doing.

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 Yes, I pointed that out. Nor does pure numbers. Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note? I vote one for performance. So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry.

We will agree to disagree. Just pointing out the differences here. BTW, dismissing feel is not sad when you understand that feel is subjective. Don't know why you feel the need to go after me, by caking it "sad" because I pointed out that. Sorry but you have a clear bias to the Stang so your defense and rebuttals come off just as fan boyish as Bongs. No offense. The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 Yes, I pointed that out. Nor does pure numbers. Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note? I vote one for performance.

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter. Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver). The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Don't know where you live and who you talk to but I hear people saying Porsche is overpriced all the time. This is not news either.

You're missing the point. You're going to bat for the Mustang as bad as he goes to bat for Das Boots. And neither argument holds water. Ccap himself has said that despite the Shelby name a local dealer just sold one for list. People aren't just lining up to say "take my money" anymore. They want steak, not sizzle. It matters not a jot if you can reach the limits of either on the street-you're paying for the POTENTIAL to be able to do something. And you're paying more for the same ability if you buy the Ford. And the Ford just can't match the bang for the buck that Chevy offers. There. Is. No. Escaping. That. If Im going to bat for the Mustang as hard as he does for Das Boots... Arent you going to bat for the Camaro as hard for Yankee Doodle Dandee? But you are allowed to go ape for Yankee Doodle Dandee though... Argument style...not what he actually does... No offense but what he did was his "argument style". When he loses and argument, he slams everyone who disagrees and insults mods when they don't support him. Despite the fanboyism, Bong has not ever done what Wings did (the mod insults and such). It's a severe exaggeration to connect those two because of mere "fanboyism". Just my two cents. Carry on. Not one piece of sheetmetal is shared between the two cars Olds. We get it though. You will never like the way it looks because of a stupid movie.

No comments? A little shocked I must say.

Not a surprising result there. The SS is already a beast and handles the GT with ease (see the Road and Track review I posted). I really want to see what the top their Camaro will be like (thought I would never say that).

Sorry but the Acadia is not an icon like the Escalade. It would be a huge stretch to call it that. you're not a suburban milf housewife. You don't know that.

This^^ because conjecture and "if, if, ifs" don't fly unless you are just trolling as usual.

This and stating that GM/Cadillac is "scared" to build a Slade sized crossover is just asinine and ignorant, but not surprising given the person who said. MB can do this but Cadillac can't. Got it SMK.

It's called Cadillac XT7 and it is going to be built using the Omega platform. You are already late with this revelation of yours, which is why every thing you have brought up prior is moot. Oh, and if Cadillac goes that price route with the Slade, they won't have a problem moving it if they make it worth that kind of dough. It's not that hard. If MB can charge that kind of cash for a severely dated looking G-Wagon, then Caddy will have no problem with a more upscale Slade in that price range.

I have said this before, but the new Camaro just continues to impress me. This pretty much said it all for me. "After two days driving over the relief left behind by the Great Buzzard, there's no doubt the Camaro, with its Cadillac platform and Corvette engine, is the thoroughbred of its class. We can't believe it. The Camaro is almost too composed. The balance is sublime. It's refined and exciting. Has this once fat lout of a car become a bona fide sports car. Did that just happen? It happened." http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/reviews/a27655/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2016-ford-mustang-gt/

. There was nothing quite like the Aztek either. Doesn't mean it didnt make Edward James Olmos look like a swimsuit model. In all seriousness, I saw the new Prius the other day as well. Still hideous.

It won't happen. As long as GM can make full size trucks, they will always have the BOF Escalade. It has earned it's place to keep it that way, unless sales take the worst tumblr in the history of car sales. Anyway, the CT6 platform is much smaller than what underpins the Escalade, so that's not going to happen either. They will slide in 3 row CUV that is larger than the XT5, while not stepping on the Escalades toes because they can continue to market the Slade as even more upscale with the right packaging combination (V series for example). They do not have to give up one to have the other. Mercedes sure as hell doesn't have to worry about it. The GL and the G wagon co-exist nicely without stepping on each other's toes). Cadillac doe into have to worry about it either. Also, you contradicted yourself on the "in addition to" claim. You state here that you want a Lambda added. "The Escalade is the most successful Cadillac product, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I do think at some point they will need a unibody large crossover. I'm sure they'll get a lambda, it would be nicer if they had a 3 row Omega bases crossover." And then you immediately follow that with, "I could see the day when the BOF suv is dead, but I think that is beyond 10 years from now." i.e., you think when the BOF is dead, they will go CUV. That is not "in addition to". That is replacing.

Sorry but the Acadia is not an icon like the Escalade. It would be a huge stretch to call it that.

Says if it's not broke then don't fix it and in the same breath says that they need to fix it (i.e. go CUV). That is all. And why does the Escalade need to worry about an overdressed VW, I mean Bentley (see if you get that)? As a matter of fact, why is the Bentley not catching more hell for being that closely related to a $45K Volkswagen?

I cannot properly express into words how utterly horrible looking that thing is.

Great read. However, I find the complaints about the Vette's 7 speed amusing. If you can't find the gears, go back to an auto slushbbox and remedial driving school.

It is much easier to sell here than in Michigan though, due to it being D3 central. It's a always going to be a political thing at that point. The only thing we defend tooth nail here is guns (which I have no problem with BTW).

Nothing wrong with that. It has a nice clean look to it.

Sorry but I am not going to put too much weight into a pure opinion piece from a publication that has never shown much love to Tesla begin with. Like Suave said, there are some good points but most everything in their purely opinion and typical short sighted speculation.

I will respect your opinion but I will not just call what I said opinion when most of what I said is a known fact. Having a dad work for one of those dinosaur companies and knowing what they own and what they have blocked when there was no money to be made for them gives me a least a little more insight on this. There is plenty of evidence to back this up. Just saying. These beliefs are not very helpful if you are only going to acknowledge part of the problem and part of the facts. Again, we will agree to disagree though. No worries on my end.