surreal1272

There's no irony. You're just avoiding the reality of the situation. Hell, they got this exact thread cooking over in FIN and they're admitting that the changes Ford's making to the Shelby options list are a reaction to the 1LE's pricing. I'm sorry if these things sting you. But that's kinda what Bumblebees do. There is something to be said about rent free living. When you leave the conversation hours ago, yet someone can't stop dropping your name, you know the living is good. What's funny is to call us two "like Wings and Cosworth". I have grilled you on Tesla left and right which is something the Ford wonder twins could never and did not ever do. I don't need to agree with anyone here and I could give two $h!s if someone has my back or not. You know that for a fact.

One more thing Bong. SHOUTY FONT SHOUTY FONT, SHOUTY FONT!!!!! NOW IN COLOR!!

The shouty font is awesome. It's the only way you can get someone to truly listen to what you're saying, even if what you're saying is completely absent of facts, truth, or anything resembling a sane conversation. </sarcasm>

You dropped my name into this Olds. Of course I'm going to retort especially when you mistakenly think I was talking to you on the other page. Just suck it for once and leave my name out of &#036;h&#33; that has nothing to do with me. It's that simple. Good grief man. I'll leave the drama queen schtick to you.

Hey, if they bought one right out of the gate then good for them. If they didn't then that's between them and their wallet. But where your comparison breaks down a bit is the fact that it took Ford two or three years to reel in the Chevy. The Alpha Camaro was already capable of being a headache for the Shelby as soon as it dropped, which was only months after the Shelby. Which, in turn, is already seeing it's options list juggled around in order to try and fight back. Yeah and? That my friend is normal business in the industry... Thing is... People in Greece, the ones that can actually buy a new car in 2015...are buying brand new Mustangs... So are the Brits... They are peeved off that they arent getting the visceral Mustangs that Hammond kept on taking about... But that is the thing though EL K... Lets talk like adults... Its hard to engineer a classic pony car to sell to the world when for 50 years all you've ever heard was how the rest of the world views the classic muscle car as uncouth... When it comes to a mythological creature like the Mustang, Ford had to really be careful NOT to screw it up for us and for them....as you know EL K, Ford is engineering only ONE Mustang platform for the world...only one... They miscalculated...its OK...they are correcting....dont act like a douche...you know what is what... Chevy...BEFORE the Corvette went racing with the C5...was a JOKE to the world....even when the C5R was winning, the world was laughing... Even when the C6R was winning, the world was still laughing...only the French in France started loving it...now...with the C7....the world is starting to take notice...CUE IN SURREAL HEREYes Surreal, the French started loving that good 'ol V8 sound, yeah...like how CCAP and myself love the GT350 sound...kinda how universally, FERRARI ENGINES ARE REVERED for THEIR SOUND...hell a Ferrari is worth their price of admission SOLELY on the way they sound...who cares of they CONTINUE to burn to the ground! How many years...decades does that make for the Vette finally to get world acceptance? Dont kid yourself EL K... The C7 Vette is still not as revered in the world as it is here in North America...the C7 is still eons behind in respect as the Porsche 911 is world wide... Ford....with the GT350...made a EUROPEAN style SPORTS CAR....the Jay Leno video CLEARLY states that...and that video CLEARLY gives the reasons why... Yet....you seem to be all hell bent to dismiss ANY qualities the GT350 has... You know...the 1LE probably feels like a muscle car...someone who HATES muscle cars...like 99.99% of the rest of the world, probably will DESPISE a Camaro 1LE...and if GM was to go global with the Camaro...it would probably fail in that regard... Why? Unlike the Mustang...where the Mustang is a mythological creature...the Camaro is not... The world wanted a muscle car Mustang...they got a more European car....but they are OK with that... If the world got a muscle car Camaro...they would probably hate it...like I said...the Vette is as much a muscle car as its supposed to be...and yet...its laughed upon...and a Vette has more cachet than a Camaro world wide me thinks... PS: you think Ford marketers werent noticing the failures of Vette and Cadillac on European shores in the 1990s? You think they did not know the dangers of selling pure Americana to Europeans and how difficult it is? PSS: Ford of Europe has more presence than GM does...not Opel...Europeans think that Opel is truly European...German... They also think that of Ford of Europe... But a Ford Mustang is PURE Ford USA.... Think about how hard it is to engineer driving dynamics on a classic like a Mustang... GM STILL hasnt perfected that with its Corvette....get what Im sayin? Porsche is fantastic....they managed to create a legend that both continents enjoy, and literally for the same values... Ford and GM are still finding themselves in that regard....the world wide image thing... Why you felt the need to bring me into this, without knowing why I posted what I posted in the first place, is kind of silly and pointless but if it helps you write another diatribe laden novella. diatribe laden novella. You are full of those...more than mine... And yet you responded too...which you also have a history of doing...non...stop... About the sound.... Yeah..I know why you posted it...you were directing that to me...and with the FERRARI response I gave you...well, ITS OK...I guess people dont buy Ferraris for their engine noises, they buy them for their reliability... Dude...even women have orgasms when they hear Ferraris drive by... But yeah...engine noises arent that important for performance cars... . Seriously? You didn't make that half page post (on top of the many long winded posts you have made)? Must have been someone else who goes on endlessly that I was thinking about. My bad.Oh and not one post of mine (prior to the last two) was in any shape or form directed to you, about you, or for you. I'm not going to argue this with you because it is the truth and nothing you can ramble on about will change that. That conversation about engine sounds was between me and ccap41 and I never said I didn't care about the sound so you can just drop the bull$h! Olds because I ain't buyin'. That is all.

Hey, if they bought one right out of the gate then good for them. If they didn't then that's between them and their wallet.But where your comparison breaks down a bit is the fact that it took Ford two or three years to reel in the Chevy. The Alpha Camaro was already capable of being a headache for the Shelby as soon as it dropped, which was only months after the Shelby. Which, in turn, is already seeing it's options list juggled around in order to try and fight back. Yeah and?That my friend is normal business in the industry... Thing is... People in Greece, the ones that can actually buy a new car in 2015...are buying brand new Mustangs... So are the Brits... They are peeved off that they arent getting the visceral Mustangs that Hammond kept on taking about... But that is the thing though EL K... Lets talk like adults... Its hard to engineer a classic pony car to sell to the world when for 50 years all you've ever heard was how the rest of the world views the classic muscle car as uncouth... When it comes to a mythological creature like the Mustang, Ford had to really be careful NOT to screw it up for us and for them....as you know EL K, Ford is engineering only ONE Mustang platform for the world...only one... They miscalculated...its OK...they are correcting....dont act like a douche...you know what is what... Chevy...BEFORE the Corvette went racing with the C5...was a JOKE to the world....even when the C5R was winning, the world was laughing... Even when the C6R was winning, the world was still laughing...only the French in France started loving it...now...with the C7....the world is starting to take notice... CUE IN SURREAL HERE Yes Surreal, the French started loving that good 'ol V8 sound, yeah...like how CCAP and myself love the GT350 sound...kinda how universally, FERRARI ENGINES ARE REVERED for THEIR SOUND...hell a Ferrari is worth their price of admission SOLELY on the way they sound...who cares of they CONTINUE to burn to the ground! How many years...decades does that make for the Vette finally to get world acceptance? Dont kid yourself EL K... The C7 Vette is still not as revered in the world as it is here in North America...the C7 is still eons behind in respect as the Porsche 911 is world wide... Ford....with the GT350...made a EUROPEAN style SPORTS CAR....the Jay Leno video CLEARLY states that...and that video CLEARLY gives the reasons why... Yet....you seem to be all hell bent to dismiss ANY qualities the GT350 has... You know...the 1LE probably feels like a muscle car...someone who HATES muscle cars...like 99.99% of the rest of the world, probably will DESPISE a Camaro 1LE...and if GM was to go global with the Camaro...it would probably fail in that regard... Why? Unlike the Mustang...where the Mustang is a mythological creature...the Camaro is not... The world wanted a muscle car Mustang...they got a more European car....but they are OK with that... If the world got a muscle car Camaro...they would probably hate it...like I said...the Vette is as much a muscle car as its supposed to be...and yet...its laughed upon...and a Vette has more cachet than a Camaro world wide me thinks... PS: you think Ford marketers werent noticing the failures of Vette and Cadillac on European shores in the 1990s? You think they did not know the dangers of selling pure Americana to Europeans and how difficult it is? PSS: Ford of Europe has more presence than GM does...not Opel...Europeans think that Opel is truly European...German... They also think that of Ford of Europe... But a Ford Mustang is PURE Ford USA.... Think about how hard it is to engineer driving dynamics on a classic like a Mustang... GM STILL hasnt perfected that with its Corvette....get what Im sayin? Porsche is fantastic....they managed to create a legend that both continents enjoy, and literally for the same values... Ford and GM are still finding themselves in that regard....the world wide image thing... Why you felt the need to bring me into this, without knowing why I posted what I posted in the first place, is kind of silly and pointless but if it helps you write another diatribe laden novella.

One last thing before I go. "So going forward, New Rule - Surreal or Kabong reply to Wings or FordCosworth, you get 2 warning points and a 2 day suspension. The same will happen in reverse."

Oh good lord people. Have a good one. I'm out of this non-sense for now.

Some seem to have short memories here.

So I guess even Ford feels that the tech should be just as important as the "feel".

Take a look at your earlier posts on the previous page. Aside from what I just brought up, you completely ignored the fact that you brought this on form the start with the stupid "your not an enthusiast" nonsense when that is a crock of $h!. Understand my issue with you now? BTW, you say you PM'd the Ford trolls before, which I understand. How come you don't do the same for Bong here, instead of wasting pages talking about that very thing you said you don't want?

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry. I never said I was dismissing any aspect of either car. I also have not brought up engine tone, sound, volume, or noise into this thread. I have not made one comment on the sound of said engine in this thread. So I have yet so even put ANY emphasis on "noise". Suave put it perfectly, "All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience." Nothing about that dismissed anything about either car but said that a car is more than just numbers, more than just feel, it is the entire package that makes a great car a great car. Bong has thrown all the eggs in the numbers basket saying the 1LE will be "put the Shelby on the trailer." and that "Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350." Ignorant is measuring the greatness of a car from purely performance numbers, a la Bong. "Everybody" loves Miatas and GTIs for a reason, and it sure as heck isn't because they run low 11's in the 1/4 from the factory, sure as heck isn't because they have a howlin' V8 under the hood but because they give the driver an experience they cannot get in almost any other car. There's a good chance it's that. Are they slow? No. So performance numbers mean SOMETHING as well. Neither can be completely dismissed. BS. I understand about feel and what it means to folks. That's not my problem here. You think I am not an "enthusiast" because I don't look enough at the feel, which is a crock. Nothing you have said has made you any more of an enthusiast than myself. You act you are getting paid when you are just like me. You like cars. Nothing less, nothing more. The labels are just unfounded bull$h!. What's even funnier is that while you are criticizing Bong, you ignored (for months) the ignorant banter that a certain Ford lover was throwing out regarding the Camaro because you obviously like the Stang more. You its let it slide whereas here, you jump on Bong for doing the same thing that the Ford fan was doing.

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 Yes, I pointed that out. Nor does pure numbers. Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note? I vote one for performance. So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry.

We will agree to disagree. Just pointing out the differences here. BTW, dismissing feel is not sad when you understand that feel is subjective. Don't know why you feel the need to go after me, by caking it "sad" because I pointed out that. Sorry but you have a clear bias to the Stang so your defense and rebuttals come off just as fan boyish as Bongs. No offense. The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 Yes, I pointed that out. Nor does pure numbers. Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note? I vote one for performance.

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter. Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver). The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Don't know where you live and who you talk to but I hear people saying Porsche is overpriced all the time. This is not news either.

You're missing the point. You're going to bat for the Mustang as bad as he goes to bat for Das Boots. And neither argument holds water. Ccap himself has said that despite the Shelby name a local dealer just sold one for list. People aren't just lining up to say "take my money" anymore. They want steak, not sizzle. It matters not a jot if you can reach the limits of either on the street-you're paying for the POTENTIAL to be able to do something. And you're paying more for the same ability if you buy the Ford. And the Ford just can't match the bang for the buck that Chevy offers. There. Is. No. Escaping. That. If Im going to bat for the Mustang as hard as he does for Das Boots... Arent you going to bat for the Camaro as hard for Yankee Doodle Dandee? But you are allowed to go ape for Yankee Doodle Dandee though... Argument style...not what he actually does... No offense but what he did was his "argument style". When he loses and argument, he slams everyone who disagrees and insults mods when they don't support him. Despite the fanboyism, Bong has not ever done what Wings did (the mod insults and such). It's a severe exaggeration to connect those two because of mere "fanboyism". Just my two cents. Carry on. Not one piece of sheetmetal is shared between the two cars Olds. We get it though. You will never like the way it looks because of a stupid movie.

No comments? A little shocked I must say.

Not a surprising result there. The SS is already a beast and handles the GT with ease (see the Road and Track review I posted). I really want to see what the top their Camaro will be like (thought I would never say that).

Sorry but the Acadia is not an icon like the Escalade. It would be a huge stretch to call it that. you're not a suburban milf housewife. You don't know that.

This^^ because conjecture and "if, if, ifs" don't fly unless you are just trolling as usual.

This and stating that GM/Cadillac is "scared" to build a Slade sized crossover is just asinine and ignorant, but not surprising given the person who said. MB can do this but Cadillac can't. Got it SMK.

It's called Cadillac XT7 and it is going to be built using the Omega platform. You are already late with this revelation of yours, which is why every thing you have brought up prior is moot. Oh, and if Cadillac goes that price route with the Slade, they won't have a problem moving it if they make it worth that kind of dough. It's not that hard. If MB can charge that kind of cash for a severely dated looking G-Wagon, then Caddy will have no problem with a more upscale Slade in that price range.

I have said this before, but the new Camaro just continues to impress me. This pretty much said it all for me. "After two days driving over the relief left behind by the Great Buzzard, there's no doubt the Camaro, with its Cadillac platform and Corvette engine, is the thoroughbred of its class. We can't believe it. The Camaro is almost too composed. The balance is sublime. It's refined and exciting. Has this once fat lout of a car become a bona fide sports car. Did that just happen? It happened." http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/reviews/a27655/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2016-ford-mustang-gt/

. There was nothing quite like the Aztek either. Doesn't mean it didnt make Edward James Olmos look like a swimsuit model. In all seriousness, I saw the new Prius the other day as well. Still hideous.