surreal1272

Absolutely no difference except where people want word semantics to be involved. Skip the fact that, once again, the cheaper model is “down the road”. Ccap is right. That is deceptive pricing and using the word “around” means less when we are talking about being closer to 30K and not 35K. Nice little 15% gap there. It was BS when Tesla did it and its BS here.

Remember ccap. Some companies get a pass on lying to their customers while others don’t and all because of the badge on the hood.

I see why you had the summer you did. Because you won’t admit to anything that calls you out nor do accept a very simple explanation of why you were and are still wrong about me. You clearly read what you wanted to read because it’s easier for you to be confrontational than to just admit that you don’t know $h! about me. My sensationalism reference is about you, not about the article (which was, in fact, and opinion piece sprinkled with a few facts). Get that through your thick skull before making yet another ignorant assumption about me. Since you want to make assumptions though, I have some for you. You talk constantly about being the way you are because being Greek, or being French Canadian, or being whatever other excuse you like to make for what you actually are, which is just being a grade A asshole. Has not one thing to do with your culture or where you live. You make the choice to be this way. Be an asshole on your own time but leave me and my name out of it and I will do the same because you are just not worth the time it took to even type this.

And that is why you fail. I am not a “brand nut jobber”. That’s just you sensationalizing as always because of your clear bias AGAINST some brands. You confuse my explanations of Toyota with fandom and that’s why I am quite honestly tired of the endless horse$h! you keep peddling over it. Get over it already and don’t drop my name like that when you clearly have had no clue WTF you are about. It’s that simple. (I wasn’t going to respond but that “brand nut jobber” BS was not going to stand when I know it’s a 100% lie) Quite frankly, this is where you stand with me and that’s the end of it.

Cute opinion based articles disguised as "news" but hey, you got to have something right? All of the data about recalls and such have been well documented and Toyota earned scorn for the larger ones (like the UA debacle). Duh. Seriously. The fact is that they had to dive back into the 90's to fill the article up with this "data" is telling. Now, if I were to find some articles on GM and their debacles in JUST the last 20 years (the biggest being bankruptcy because of decades of neglect), how long would those articles stretch? Go ahead and actually compare for once. Seriously, Toyota has issues but this "crusade" to play "gotcha" just because some folks here had the nerve to actually compliment the company a few times or you just otherwise have a hate hard on for the company, is trolling 101 and just childish nonsense. You are no better than a certain German/Tesla pom pom waver who goes out of his way to be deliberately outlandish and confrontational. This is why I don't post that often here anymore. It's not worth the hassle of dealing the same wash, rinse, repeat nature of attitudes here. Sorry but that is just how I see it. Another time but I will leave this little nugget about GM from 2014 because "lest we forget...". "GM has recalled more vehicles in 2014 than it has sold since its filed for bankruptcy in 2008." https://www.dividend.com/how-to-invest/a-full-look-at-the-2014-general-motors-recalls-gm/ And I'm out (for while because hip surgery calls on Monday).

And remember @smk4565, it has been YOU that has crowed on about the Cybertruck for the last three years, years that were promised a Cybertruck by Elon and his fans the following year, each year. You had ZERO issue with the possibility of quick production and even touted their ability to do so during those three years. Now you are on here making excuses about the repeated delays buy saying that this is "normal" (it is clearly not) and then throwing in some non-related BS about sales. FFS. That is what is wrong with people lately. Can't just admit their error and move the F on. Good luck with that (same goes to anyone here with the same level of stubbornness).

Like I said, endless excuses and that fact will never change. BTW, not one part of what I said about timelines had $h! to do with sales bar mover. aHad no jack squat to with whether Kia is better or not. This was about concept timelines and the FACT IS THAT THE CYBERTRUCK HAS BEEN SLOW TO DEVELOP and that is a FACT backed by Tesla's own CEO, not your pom pom waving fanboy OPINION. Get that yet or do you want to make up more reasons why you are wrong? Finally, those were just TWO examples of the many vehicles that have hit the floor quicker than the Cybertruck. You can add in literally dozens of others that have been quicker than it but hey, "sales, sales, sales" when you run out of excuses right?

So just make up any excuse to cover up the fact that he said production was originally supposed to start in 2021 when he announced it in 2019 (having been in "concept" concept before then). And that 4 years is a lie in this day and age and you know that. Kia's EV9 is going from concept to production in less than 3. The Mach-E was announced 2019 and was on sale the next year so just stop with the endless excuses when even Elon has confessed to the endless delays delaying the Cybertruck. Again, you ignore facts to make up excuses and feelings. And touting that dumb bulletproof video is just sheer ignorance and fanboy BS. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Notice they didn't shoot at that once unbreakable glass (that Elon broke in front of the world). Keep drinking that Kool-Aid though.

That's the problem here. You speak form "feelings" instead of facts. Here is more of the facts starting with this: "Economies of scale won't help bring down cost for a while. The CEO still thinks Tesla will eventually build 250,000 Cybertrucks a year, but said it won't reach that production rate until sometime in 2025 at the earliest." That is straight from your man's mouth. 2025 at the EARLIEST. Source: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-deliveries-begin-november-elon-musk/ Point here is to just stop it with the feelings and cheerleading and try dealing in facts. The facts are right there above so try it on and see if it fits.

Good grief. Not those numbers. I’m talking about these mythical figures you have saying that AI based self driving will somehow be better despite the litany of evidence to the contrary (and, again, the fact that Elon can even get his current self driving systems right, nevermind this version 12 nonsense. And November 30th you say? Now is that full production date (it’s not btw) or the slow roll out date that everyone else not named SMK already knew? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon-musk-says-dug-own-102158965.html And I quote… ”Musk said that he wanted to "temper expectations" for the electric truck's launch, which Tesla announced would be on November 30.”

And are you using Musk data to pull out these imaginary numbers about crashes and scenarios? Your trust is this is baffling given the buggy nature of the venture so far but hey, gotta keep on cheering for your new lord and master right? Is that the time horizon they are using for the Cybertruck?

Teslas biggest fan here ”The Cybertruck will sell like hotcakes and take pickup sales from the D3” ”The Cybertruck will make money for Tesla” Also the Cybertruck… https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon-musk-says-dug-own-102158965.html

Again, missing the total point while kissing Elon's ass and trusting a system that is even ready as a level 2 system, much less level 3 to be run by the same AI that Elon criticized a year ago just so he could peddle his own AI BS. Go ahead and trust THAT.

You mean this hot mess that is still in the experimental (i.e. buggy garbage) phase that almost got Elon killed? That AI based FSD nonsense? https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/28/23848882/elon-musk-tesla-fsd-v12-demo-red-light-zuckerberg-house You would have to be out of your ever loving mind to trust AI based FSD in ANY form! They haven't even worked out the kinks in their current self driving systems but you are sitting there trying to convince everyone here that this is the way to go and that only Tesla can pull this off (version 12 AI FSD)?

And there it is, that fanboy blinder logic. Keep thinking that non-sense is relevant in the EV world. At the same price, there is literally NOTHING that makes that EQB any more capable or "special" than the LARGER EV9, unless it's someone like yourself who fawns over labels instead of actual merits and substance. It's your right to feel this way. It's also others right to mock you for it when they see fanboy statements like the one above. And for the umpteenth time, the EV6 sales have been discussed and your assertions about it debunked. I will leave you with a snippet highlighting the debunking and why those sales dipped. Hint: it's not built here while the EV9 will be built in Georgia, knocking off $7500 from the EV9's $55K price tag. Still want to bitch about the price? "CNET says new requirements for the $7,500 U.S. EV tax credit took effect in April 2023. The 2023 Kia EV6 no longer qualifies for the federal tax credit when purchased by an individual, but a loophole allows Kia to offer the $7,500 savings as a “Lease Bonus.” BTW, the lease loophole only works in certain buyer scenarios. It is astounding how you always skip the obvious stuff to spout of whatever bull$h! you feel passes for a "fact" around here. You get told actual facts, time and time again, yet always repeat THE SAME debunked points. Why? Do you have a cognitive disorder that keeps you from remembering what was said, time after time? Or is it just this need to troll anything that doesn't have a precious tri-star emblem on its grill? Which is it because it sure as hell isn't ever based on anything factual about the other cars?

Better value than the smaller EQB and its equally paltry range, minimal HP (in lower trims) and a $54K starting price. Kia won't have a problem selling this at that price.

Tesla fans: "Tesla will sell 20 million cars by "X" year because the make the best EVs and have the best battery tech." Meanwhile at Tesla: https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-lands-hot-water-report-100000724.html

Your "point" was pointless as you have been told repeatedly, that it would never be sold outside of Japan (on top of being corrected over all your mistakes regarding the Century in the first damn place). Stop creating issues where none exist. FFS.

Yeah, because it's always a good business case to NOT make money on your product FFS. They don't have to sell high numbers or anywhere else other than Japan, which is how it is always been. They will not move this out of Japan nor change it's hand built nature (hence the only 30 a month and hand over fist money behind). Just stop the hypothetical BS. The article can speculate all it wants but that doesn't make it so. They have ZERO reason to change the current business model behind the Century lineup and if you actually read about their history and relevance in Japan, you would understand why it's that way and will most likely stay that way. Until then, save the speciation, the misinformation, and just otherwise outright wrong statements, like you have peddled on this thread. It's just embarrassing.

See my post about the TNGA platform and stop spreading bull$h!. You are trying to think of this in traditional platform terms without knowing a thing about Toyota's actual platforms. Just skip the fact that they only have to hand build 30 of these a month and make hand over fist money on them. Hell, the sedan has been running on a hybrid V8 system since 2018 but you clearly didn't know that when you made your statement about it still having a V12. Again, just half baked statements by you.

Just popping in to give SMK his daily dose of "being wrong" x2. One, The Century Sedan is still being sold along side the SUV. This is not a replacement. Two, it is using the TNGA platform, which is used in FWD, RWD, and AWD applications, from the Prius to the upcoming Land Cruiser. This is not "$170k for a FWD platform".

That can be said for literally every group of tech buyers out there, whether it’s Apple, Google, Microsoft, or any number of tech buyers out there. To assume it’s just Apple users that are like that is woefully ignorant on your part. I’ve done onsite tech work and shop work for Apple products and Windows and guess what? They are the same type of folks which is why they had me look at their stuff. Just asinine assumptions made by you David. Sorry but you put it on full display here. And I’m not speaking as just a computer person. I’m speaking as a person with years of experience with people who use all types of tech. Don’t try an conflate things here. What I am saying is common sense and you know it. Maybe it’s you that need to take yourself out of the computer talk if you don’t understand that.

And yet again, your bias is showing hard since I ALSO took the time to learn what I was using AND how to fix things when they go wrong and my Apple stuff is no exception. Your attempt to (yet again) lump in a particular group, in this case Apple users, through an obvious biased lens still reeks of condescension, which seems to be why you "laughed" at my last post in the first place. Point being, you clearly don't know as much as about certain users as you think and you seem to know even less about the work that can or cannot be done on their products but again, what does a 30+ year user (and fixer) of them know.

That's what my reaction was for because the iPhones I have had for years at a time, never gave me battery issues. My current 12 Pro Max is just about 3 years old with no problems whatsoever but then again, I am not a kid playing games and such for 16 hours a day, which is why your kids phone batteries tank after a few years. Here's the thing, I have a tech background too David and those battery issues for your kids would exist whether they were using iOS or Android for the same reasons mentioned above. I am going to skip the condescending nature of your post regarding Apple users and their lack of wanting to deal with maintenance or just being otherwise lazy BS. Newsflash. NO ONE WANTS TO DEAL WITH MAINTENANCE, whether it's a phone or a car. This is coming from someone with 30+ years on the Mac platform, 30 years on Windows, a few years on Linux, 13 years of iOS, and 2 years of Android (as I stare at my "newer" 4 year iMac and 18 year old Mac Pro G5 tower that still works as good as the day it came out in 2005). What the hell do I know though. And I'm done, for a while. Same but I guess everyone has "that" about $h! batteries on iPhones while I constantly sold batteries to Android users for their barely 1-2 year phones. Use what you want to use but don't condescend over it and belittle users but calling them lazy for about the dumbest damn reasons imaginable (obviously, that part was directed at you lol).

For the very last time @smk4565, ANY brand that has multiple FWD models is playing in THAT PART of the mainstream market and no amount of bar moving BS about ever changing ATPs changes that. You have been told this by multiple folks so stop acting like you don't know the truth here.