surreal1272

No need to read the rest of your post when your are going to be deliberately ignorant to the facts. What was Mercedes damn excuse for a three year slide before 2022? You know what? Don’t answer it because it doesn’t matter. You are wrong, period, if you think this kind of switch doesn’t affect sales. FFS.

Changing over to EV the last few years will sag sales for a traditional ICE automaker and then there were the supply issue affecting ALL sales for everyone for 2020 and 2021. Again, this has ALL been discussed with you before. Stop ignoring it just because you can't admit when your "facts" are wrong. BTW, your favorite brand from Germany had deicing sales in 2019, 2020, and 2021 with a small bounce back in 2022. You're not exactly standing on stable ground here with your VW "assessment". (cue endless bar moving response)

Corrected in bold.

Not the point. You said it was a failure and I showed you that it wasn’t. Your raw number comparison to Tesla did. It change that fact either, hence my previous post. Put the damn bar down or here’s a thought. Stop making up $h! about companies that are not Mercedes just because you are too lazy or too much of a fanboy to actually bother with the facts before you post. He has been told this time and time again yet comes back to the same sales BS. Done holding his fanboy hand over it.

Because the Tesla fanboy thinks it’s just about raw numbers when comparing EVs (when it’s convenient to him, anyway). Skip the part where it has been discussed (at great length) the fact that VW is still ramping up production on their EVs, like everyone else who came into the EV game years after Tesla.

We do huh? Didn’t realize that your opinion was representative of “we”. Until this comes out and hits the street with the same grace period of time you give to Tesla, it means exactly squat.

A price hasn't even been announced yet, per your own post above yet now it will be a sales bust? Great logic you're showing there.

You don't say. And? Your initial issue with the VW wasn't the placement. It was the "big screens" everywhere. Now you are saying it is because of placement. Pick a stance and stick with it. And I am no VW fan but I would take this over the quality challenged Tesla any day. You just go on ahead and be Elon's slave though lol. Just don't trust the "autopilot".

Three things. 1-It has a hatch, not a trunk. 2-Looks better than any other German offerings not already under the VW stable (i.e. Audi and Porsche as well). 2-I don't remember big ass screens being a problem for you before but maybe that was related to the manufacturer more than the existence of the big ass screens themselves. It should be noted that VWs screens are far smaller than certain other brands.

Literally from the link you posted. "Toyota 4.0L V6 comes with benefits – longevity and reliability." Pointing out the issues (that clearly affect very few of those when you realize how many of those were made over those years) does not change the above in bold and doesn't make anyone a "lemming" any more so than your posts on EVs make you a "lemming". BTW, the sheer number of 4.0L equipped Toyotas for sale with over 200K miles on them, backs up my assertion about their overall reliability and longevity and again, nothing "lemming" about it because I am happy to supply endless ads on that one to prove it lol. Besides, I can literally find sites with issues on ANY motor or car. It's not that hard on even the most reliable vehicle out there because we have little thing called the internet that enables millions to bitch about their problem motors when they are going bad but rarely compliment their motors when things are going well. See what I am saying? Shall I post the endless issues, over the last 25 years, on the 5.3L from GM? Will that make it any less unreliable in your eyes?

Basically an AMC Eagle wagon in EV form lol.

But they don't want to because Apple won't play the same game as Google (for good or bad). GM wants to learn about their consumers while they are driving (not a fan of said policy, for the record) and target them with corresponding subscription based services and Google is the perfect host for that tactic since they don't give a rat's posterior about customer privacy and specialize in target advertising. For all of this to happen, it has to squeeze Apple out of the box, so to speak. This subscription nonsense is getting out of hand and GM lost a potential EV buyer with this new setup with Google. This has less to do with my Apple preference and more to do with my distaste of everything Google, where privacy is concerned. Hell, even Lucid added Apple CarPlay recently. The omission for the sake of poaching more dough customers (who have already paid tens of thousands for their GM EV) is just dumb and greedy as hell IMO. And in what kind of Swedish/Chinese common core math world nonsense is a 4 slotted between a 2 and a 3?

Not the point. You wanted a RWD competitor for the two Germans mentioned and I simply stated that Lincoln already has that. Volume, or lack thereof, does not change that fact. And not sure what bringing up the Camry and sales have to do with anything I mentioned either since I never brought up sales being the be all, end all. Sales are simply sales and have zero bearing on the quality of a car. Dime a dozen Corollas prove this. Just saying.

The RWD based Aviator competes directly with the above mentioned and undercoat both in price already, yet its sales are average at best. That does not make a good case to switch yet another CUV to RWD just because, especially with EVs coming in to take their place. Just not a good business case of Lincoln right now. The next RWD CUV/SUV from them with be an EV, more than likely.

If I hand you some actual apples, will you compare them to other apples or do you just whip out the oranges like you are doing here?

Because of course you are "surprised". Fun fact: There are many good vehicles that exist outside of Germany.

My exact same thoughts. Nice interior but absolutely boring and bland on the outside. Some questionable visual elements as well.

So Tesla is just going to magically reduce manufacturing cost by 50% for this mythical $25K EV? Those "details" are sketchy at best so I will believe it when I see and then there would be no way I would buy it. Tesla has quality and build issues in the $50-150K range. Think that gets better just by waiving the "it'll be a quality $25K EV" wand at it Elon? Best of luck with that. Just skip the inflation factor between now and 2026 too.

That is a sound quality issue for me. Bluetooth audio sucks the highest order donkey. I use at home occasionally but in my car, it's a direct hookup and much better sound quality. Controls are far easier for use on the hardware than it is over bluetooth as well IMO. The kids can have it. This old fart has a different set of expectations on his drive.

Also because Apple offers their own competing chipset with their M line of CPUs. They are in everything "Apple" now (save for the technically ARM sourced A series chips in iPhones and TV streaming boxes) so telling Apple their "OS" needs to jive with competing hardware and subsequent OS (and often times, slower hardware) is a tough sell for them, knowing that they are involved in their own project. I just don't get the automakers willing to wholesale abandon a rather sizable user base, in the long term though. Me, personally, I can adapt to any tech thrown into these cars but being that two major sources of data (on my travels) involve my phone, that is a potential issue for me when I decide to go the EV route. GM will be S.O.L. if they decide to keep on this path.

Oh, it's' really simple. From a "business" standpoint, it's all about money. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything else is secondary. Putting that aside, from a tech standpoint, I get going the hardware route they chose. Having a capable and active infotainment system, can have a lot of advantages, from a "performance" standpoint (responsive menus, ease of use, improved feature sets, etc). The mirror mode used by CarPlay and Android Auto can definitely hinder performance in terms of menu response, on top of being a nested layer on top of the existing infotainment system (and the pitfalls that entails) that sometimes just doesn't "jive" with the rest of the infotainment system. What is baffling me how Google is deeply involved with these new infotainment so it's not much of a loss for them. It's the exact opposite, as a matter of fact. Apple, however, seems to lagging on this and it's mostly because of this odd focus on their own car development. Maybe they have something up their sleeve over the next few years but with Google getting involved with a lot of these automakers, it will be an uphill fight for them by then. I do know this. I will be damn if I pay for another streaming service when I have literally everything, music related, on Apple Music, which I get for a FAR lower price than services like Spotify (have a bundle deal with Apple+ which makes Apple Music less than $5 month). Everything I have in my house, has some kind of Apple related connection to it so these auto makers better think long and hard about cutting out one whole demographic just for the sake of pushing their own redundant nonsense for a "small fee" every month.

My favorite lie of the year. ”Tesla has spent $0 in advertising” A $44 billion purchase of Twitter would beg to differ. Elon is Tesla and is using Twitter to push Tesla and everything else backed by him when he’s not sounding like a complete jackass on there.

And then some. Which is still cheaper than his $57K claim and again, how many price bumps from Tesla over the past five years and he is going to harp on others for doing less? That’s why a discussion can’t be had with him. Just some serious bar moving gymnastics and I’m over this childish fanboy nonsense. The sad thing is that while he touts this “huge” price drop, he failed to realize that this new price merely aligns with its original price before all the bumps over the years (Remember, the Y was supposed to start at closer to $40K than $50K and we know what happened there). He also fails to see that the price drops are to help lagging sales. Let me say it again. It’s to help LAGGING SALES. Big sellers don’t need a price drop but shhhh, apparently Tesla is the exception to basic economics.

I’m done with @smk4565 . I just literally gave you a real world example and you move that damn bar yet again (like I knew you would). Stop it. Seriously. You were proven wrong and you still want to act like you weren’t shown the facts? Go to a Tesla forum with that biased nonsense.

Let me show you where your lack of context is getting you bit in the A. The above numbers are true for the Mach-E (for the 2021 and 2023 figures only, not the $57,995 figure). Bravo to that. However (after a whole 20 second search near my location)... Clicked "Search inventory" and... The window sticker.... Last I checked, that is: A.) Considerably LESS than the $57K figure you just used. B.)Still LESS than a base model Y (that has less standard features than the Mach-E thus killing the tax credit advantage of $3750 enjoyed by the Y), even AFTER the recent price drop on it. And this AFTER an even bigger 20% cut in January. Basically, it took those price drops to put the Y in the same breath as the Mach-E, when talking about competitive pricing. Just think about that before replying because I am not going to keep spelling out the obvious here. Or... ...should I just go ahead and move that bar for you and save your back from the repeated lifting?