regfootball

the 2.0T is turbo? I can't even find on Saab's website where it says whether it needs it or not. The VW turbo needs either 91 or 93 octane which is pricey and defeats the purpose of going to a 4 cyl turbo vs a nice relaxed 6 cylinder.

i was blown away as much as you were when i tested the XR 5 door with 17" sport package. I must say you basically are echoing a lot of the exact things i thought at the time. And to top it off, i drove a Jetta 5 cylinder manual right after that that same day so i even get an idea of comparing it to the VW. The VW feels larger and more stout, but not as sprite and energetic as the astra. The Astra really blew me away. handling and ride were perfect and power was fine although I would wish for about 20-40 more hp. I would not let the lack of power deter me from buying the car. the cupholder and armrest debacle do, however. Why the Astra only comes in 4th in C/D's comparo and loses to a corolla shows nasty journalism. Did they test the manual? I thought the shifter felt fine, actually. I got to revisit the astra feeling when i tested a 9-3 2.0T manual this weekend. Same type of thing. Light and nimble car, great ride handling and shifter. If my budget does not allow a larger car, the Astra is almost a no brainer choice to me now, as long as Saturn drops the price a bit. I would have a hard time deciding between the 3 door and the 5 door with twin panel S/R. Edmunds users give Astra a 9.5. Might be the highest rating I've seen on that site. Go read the reviews. Civics and Accords and Camrys are not getting that rating even.

just checking. my buddy hates having to put good gas in his vdub. can you get by with 87 octane in saabs?

premium gas though

when does the a4 come out and what is its base price?

yup

in truth, if you price out all the models, the higher optioned vues and auras are the only ones that one might consider pricey. the astras actually, once you start doing comparisons, are not all that far off. especially a fully loaded XR is not all that out of whack vs. the competition. most of the auras going out the door right now are 4 cylinder XE's that sticker closer to 20k than 23-25k. the outlook is fully competitive. the vue are the ones they have had to make adjustments on pricing for. the market is down 30% and everyone is buying cheap iron. so its easy to default to say that saturn should go back to peddling sh1tboxes. i get that, since honda can only seem to move their low priced sh1tboxes right now. But the truth is that once you get someone into the saturn showroom, the product is pretty desirable and once people understand the pricing and incentives its not really out of whack vs other brands. saturns options are usually priced well. saturn's biggest problem is they are selling essentially 4 of 5 models (brands) that are new names and have no recognition from the past. you cannot build equity in a model right away. this is why the astra for example coming over from europe right now is not a bad thing, even if sales are low. it replaced the ion, which is a huge credibility upgrade. now let that success breed for the first generation here....then the next astra comes out, build off that success. if saturn's cars were so crappy, why would its owner ratings on edmunds for example, be 9.5 for the astra and the civic is 9.0 and the fit is only 9.2. the aura also has a higher rating the accord as well. the fusion and taurus also have notably higher ratings than the accord. this is the infancy of saturn's transition to a full line dealer. the marketing is not there. and the market is way down, so of course right now the results are slow to come. keep the saturn name, that is synonymous with a great customer experience. you can't afford to lose that by switching to 'opel'.

yes, i prefer sex.

wall street smells blood. they know any sort of hysteria they can create to actually make this happen will net all themselves millions and billions. breaking it down and building it back up is a significant business opportunity for those jerkwads.

i've driven both G8's. the v6 powertrain is unrefined, but a simple tranny switch would take care of it. the v8 is tomb quiet and the tranny is silk. steering is great. car is composed. my only beef with the g8 v8 is initial bump compliance. the car is effortless to drive. i have a hard time believing the fwd acura accord (and its grocery getter platform) has the goods to outperform the g8. i am sure since its not made for serious duty, they softer suspension of the TL may make it seem refined to the casual driver. you can't bash the g8 gt when the acura is an accord with a nice center stack and cushier seats. nice honda..... i havent seen in any reviews where editors have bashed the g8's performance as unrefined

um, no, its a refined performance sedan that costs less than a TL, walks all over its crappy little front wheel drive ass, and compares neck and neck with a BMW twice its price. get over it, import brand snob. lets take a GXP G8 and the TL to the nurburgring and settle it there.

astra and aura are both great cars at great prices. what's your solution now?

this is a lot nicer

you are smoking crack and all of that if you can honestly say the exterior of the TL (totally lame) looks nicer than the sleek G8.

pretty terrible. copy the last gen maxima rear. add mazda front with meat slicer grille.....ick. way to ruin a good thing, honda. having just looked at a Lincoln MKs over lunch, and not being overly impressed with it, i will say that it looks positively stylish in comparison to this ugly metal and rubber abortion. Between the Avalon, new Maxima, and now this, I am supposed to be elated with Japanese crap....er.....products? Really makes me love that pretty blue brand new lucerne someone's been parking in the lot recently here at work. G8 and CTS look amazing and stunning in comparison. How much longer are we suppose to go on praising these japanese metal and rubber abortions?

m3 looks kinda nice

great interior. my take on this. cruze is going a bit upscale, aveo moves up a bit to fall in a little below where cavalier and cobalt are now. i.e. $h!boxes.

i still see berettas out and about and i swear they have extreme name recongnition. they could name it beretta and it would be better off than cruze. monza, chevette, i liked Vega, COBALT is great....cavalier even is too (they just never updated the car). oh well. I know what a focus is. i dont have to relearn all that.

point being the car isnt responsible for the sales

everyone knows what a corolla and civic are. no one is gonna have an effing clue what a CRUZE is.

OMG i will need to be having some coworkers over for 'i've never' me needs to find out someteeng about someone. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA anyone ever play the david caruso / CSI Miami drinking game? There are many forms of it, but usually it includes slamming drinks when "H" does his patented 'turn and lift head and take off shades and say something dramatic' move. in college we used to drink to 'Saved By the Bell'. My memory is slipping a bit on this but it did involve something with Screech and something with anytime they said something like 'aw, zach' i think. -edit- AS MENTIONED IN POST ABOVE FROM LIKE 3 YEARS AGO QUOTE(the_yellow_dart @ Nov 9 2005, 11:06 AM) [snapback]40766[/snapback] Classics: -- Kings: Cards are associated with making up rules, assigning drinks, taking drinks, etc. Look it up if you want to know cause I really don't remember. -- I've Never: Requires at least 4 people, IMO. The more people, the better. You go around the circle and everyone gets a turn to say "I've never (fill in the blank with something dishonest/kinky/nasty)". If someone says something you've done, you drink. If you say something that nobody drinks to, you drink. You can also say something that you HAVE done, but you must drink after you say it. It's a good way to both: a. Get the girls drunk, and b. Find out which girls are dirty. After everyone admits what they've done and drinks, it moves on to the next person to say the next "I've never". Sometimes it can turn into bragging, depending on the people. For example, saying "I've never slept with 3 women at the same time" and then proudly drinking. It's always been fun when I've played. -- Roxanne: Ridiculous. A 2 person game. One person picks "put on the red light", one person picks "roxanne". Drink when you hear your phrase. Play the song, and try to keep up. Good luck!! -- What the f**k: A little childish, but gets people hammered. Everyone picks a name ending in f**k, and there is a rhyme involved which passes the responsibility to do the next verse from person to person based on the chosen f**k names. If you screw up the song, you drink and start it over. The start is hard, so the same person usually ends up drinking about 5 times before the game gets going again. You need someone to teach you this one in person.

i'd like to see chrysler hang around but honestly they need some new iron. a buddy called me the other day and he was on a work trip. said he picked up his new rental.....a caliber, and man did he not have anything good to say about it. having tested one myself once, i could get where he was coming from. Jeep's lineup i like, but they are hurt by gas prices. Compass and Patriot need interior upgrades. I like the Liberty, GC, and Commander if its still here. Dodge should focus on a few core items and really try to modernize. But still have the most models. Chrylser should try to stick with 5 models or something. I saw a couple crossfires the other day. In a way its sad that car didn't get love, but its roots were old. But they were going for big discounts recently. I bet an open air crossfire might even be as cheap as some mid priced kappas if you hunt right about now.

the camry is mediocrity supreme but the hype behind it is insurmountable. if they rebadged a camry with mitsubishi badges or even subaru badges it would be piling up on lots everywhere.

the epsilon cars had different hp ratings. maybe they were an entirely different build and thus got a set of internals that was more consistent?