balthazar

Yer but 3 months ahead of me, Roger. Where'd the time go?

Mustang !

For a company that's made almost 7 billion profit in one quarter; 3.75 million for this level of disaster, where damages may surpass $50 billion, seems rather... low.

Still not liking it much. The span from the top of the hood to the top of the wheelwell opening is getting huge, and that's where this car deceives as far as apparent size goes. Wheelbase is shorter, which while it may possibly make for more trunk room, it will make for tighter door openings definitely & less interior room most likely. The wheels moved in the wrong direction. It's just looking bulky and a bit bloated so far, and the frontal overhang looks a LOT larger than the current car. Really looking forward to side-by-side pics.

Why not stay with the 2500? Costs? Purchase price, and really- more truck than I currently use.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_09Op0KYA6BQ/S9KQLr15VAI/AAAAAAAAA64/xma9Ud0aulY/s1600/1960+Dodge+tail+light.jpg

I remember turning the key & almost starting up a Bicentennial '76 Impala coupe- white with red/blue pinstripes, in a junkyard.

I would downgrade if my 2500HD were totaled, to a 1500 CC, but I'd look at all the Big 3 trucks.

No one wants to assume those are model years spray-painted on the glass? And there's no saying how long those have been in there- the '89 could've been there over 10 years.

Is it known, will it depend, or is it only guesses at this point if these retailers will charge the user to charge their electric car?

Up for Auction: Very Rare 1908 Oldsmobile Limited Prototype Ladies & gents, you have of course heard of 'dubs'; the 20" rim. May I point out the 'double dub... plus 2'! Yes, 42" rims. Monstrous vehicle. Well worth reading the description... 1908 Oldsmobile Limited Prototype Chassis No. 60014 Estimate:$600,000-$900,000 US AUCTION DATE: To be auctioned on Saturday, March 12, 2011 60 bhp, 453 cu. in. T-Head six-cylinder inline engine with three-speed manual gearbox, front suspension via live axle and longitudinal leaf springs, and rear suspension via live rear axle and longitudinal leaf springs, and internal expanding rear-wheel hand brake and external contracting on rear wheels. Wheelbase: 130" - Only known remaining factory prototype - Believed to have had just a few owners from new - Fresh high-point restoration Overview of the Mighty Limited Oldsmobile began testing of a true giant in 1908. Soon to be known as the Limited, it was a massive automobile, with 42-inch wheels and a chassis so tall that not one but two running boards were required to mount the beast. Standing beside it, one is unprepared for the realization that the wheels are chest high and that the radiator cap stands taller than many grown men. The engine was a massive T-head engine with a displacement of 453 C.I.D. Prices ranged from $4,600 to a whopping $5,800. Horsepower was rated at 60, although contemporary reports suggest an actual output closer to 90. Prices, too, were increased across the board, and a new Limited could cost more than $7,000, plus accessories. The History of the Limited Although Ransom E. Olds was the father of Oldsmobile and creator of the famed curved-dash model, the early success of the marque was more a credit to Samuel Latta Smith. Smith, a baron of copper mining, railroads and canals in upper Michigan, was an initial investor in the Olds Motor Vehicle Company. In 1899, Smith advanced another $200,000 toward the formation of Olds Motor Works and the construction of a new factory at Detroit. As majority stockholder, Smith was named president, and his sons, Frederic and Angus, similarly acquired shares. Frederic became secretary-treasurer and soon aggressively plunged into management, including the construction of a large new plant in Lansing following a disastrous 1901 fire at the Detroit factory and establishment of an experimental engineering shop. Ransom Olds came increasingly into conflict with Fred Smith; he viewed the engineering shop as an encroachment on his turf, and it proved to be the last straw. Olds departed from his namesake company in 1904 to form Reo. Although the curved-dash model continued to sell well, leading the market until eclipsed by Ford in 1906, the Smiths favored larger, more expensive cars. The two-cylinder Heavy Touring of 1905 sold for nearly twice the curved-dash car’s $750. A four-cylinder Model S in 1906 pushed Olds prices over $2,000, and a six-cylinder Model Z for 1908 more than doubled the levy. The Smith era, however, had not been good for business. Once riding high above 6,000, Olds sales had dropped precipitously in 1906. Two years later they hovered around 1,000, dropping the company from the list of top-ten manufacturers. One suspects that Ransom Olds, enjoying Reo sales of four times that volume, probably had the last laugh. So when William C. Durant came calling in September 1908, the Smiths were eager to talk. A stock swap transferred control to Durant’s new General Motors Company on November 12th, and the Smiths resigned the following year. Departure of the Smiths, however, did not markedly change the direction of Olds Motor Works. In fact, the most prestigious Oldsmobile was yet to appear: the Limited. In order to place this magnificent car in proper perspective, it is important to realize that it was under development for more than two full years, with initial experimentation with large six-cylinder engines and imposing chassis beginning in 1908. In fact, documentation from Oldsmobile tells us that a handful of such prototypes were built in 1908; some suggest as few as two. Regardless, there is no disagreement that this is the oldest survivor of the big six-cylinder Oldsmobiles. As is well known today, after the prototypes were approved, the finished Limited was launched in 1910, and the 1910 catalog broke the news that “such a car cannot be produced rapidly, therefore only a limited quantity can be built.” Based on the Model Z, the Limited rode the same 130-inch wheelbase but with a more impressive stature due to immense 42-inch wheels. Its engine, initially the Z’s 453-cubic inch, 60-hp six, and later the 505-cubic inch motor, was a bored-out version of the original. The following year, 1911, the engine grew to 707 cubic inches while curiously retaining its original 60-bhp rating. The wheelbase was stretched to 138 inches. A roadster and touring car were offered, as well as a top-of-the-line limousine, at prices from $5,000 to $7,000, territory previously the province of the prestigious “Three Ps” – Packard, Peerless and Pierce-Arrow. Artist William Harnden Foster immortalized the Limited in his painting “Setting the Pace,” in which the Olds leads the New York Central’s Twentieth Century Limited steam locomotive, speeding on a trackside country road. For 1912, the last year for the mighty Limited, changes were minor but included a small increase in wheelbase to 140 inches. Prices, however, had not been limited, now ranging from $5,000 for open models to $6,600 for the limousine. A new four-passenger “Tourabout” joined the open cars. The Limited returned for just one final season in 1912, probably because Olds management had realized that success lay in less expensive cars. A new, smaller four-cylinder car, the Defender, had replaced the previous Special entry-level model, while the Autocrat, a flagship four-cylinder car introduced in 1911, continued to lead Oldsmobile production. In 1912, sales of the Limited fell to 117, despite a lower price on the limousine. When originally debuted, the factory catalog boasted, “In the Limited we offer a car which leaves nothing to be desired in design, construction, finish, power or equipment. It stands in the front rank of high grade cars; the greatest of a line universally recognized and ranked among leaders.” There was plenty of truth to their advertising, as the Limited truly did and still does define the magnificence of what Oldsmobile set out to accomplish. Limited Production Oldsmobile factory records indicate the production of 325 cars in 1910, 196 cars in 1911 and only 117 in 1912. Only 13 examples survive today: two 1910s, ten 1911s, one 1912 and the example offered here, the sole surviving 1908 Limited prototype. Several of these are in permanent homes, including the GM museum, Harrah’s and the Nethercutt Collection, while another four are project cars, leaving just six restored examples in existence today. The example offered here is the only surviving 1908 Limited prototype. While the car itself has been known for many years, there was no known documentation of this car to explain its existence. Fortunately, several years ago an error was discovered in the Crestline book The Cars of Oldsmobile by Dennis Casteele. Knowing that the Limited debuted in 1910, he labeled a photograph of a Limited on page 40 as a 1910 model. Upon examination, experts agree the photograph is in fact one of the 1908 prototypes, easily identified by its radiator, fender lines, large wheels and other details. The earliest history of this car is not known, but it is interesting to note that it wears period New Jersey Manufacturer’s plates. Oldsmobile was incorporated into General Motors which was based in New Jersey beginning in 1908. This fact, along with the casting numbers on all the major components, clearly identifies this car as a 1908 prototype. For many years, the car was part of the well-known Barney Pollard Collection in Michigan. Pollard was an enthusiast who had collected many cars when he saw the World War II scrap drives as a threat to the remaining survivors. Consequently, he sought out all the cars he could find, particularly the large and important ones, and purchased barns in which to store them. As he ran out of space, he began pounding telephone poles into the ground and standing his cars up on their rear bumpers, leaning against the poles in an effort to save as many as possible. After Pollard’s death, his son took over the collection, and he reports that the big Oldsmobile came from General Motors via a friend of his father’s. Many years ago, the car was purchased from Barney Pollard, Sr. and found its way into the hands of a friend of the vendor, who then purchased the car, unrestored, several years ago. He owned the car for several years and commissioned a restoration by Alan Schmidt, a San Diego area restorer. After the body and chassis were separated, they were kept in different buildings; unfortunately, the tragic fires in that area a few years ago claimed the body. The body, however, was in any event not the original. For unknown reasons, Pollard had replaced the original body with an unidentified body from another car. As a result, during the restoration the vendor decided to reconstruct the body. Having nothing to go on, he consulted with the experts and built a body identical to those Oldsmobile was using in the 1908 – 1910 period, choosing common options to his tastes. For example, in 1911, photo documentation exists showing six different light sets, two different windshields and at least two top designs. The vendor’s preference was for the eisenglass windscreen and therefore he opted for the externally braced top to add strength at speed. Finally, two types of rear fenders were available, and the vendor chose the “flying” style rather than the more rounded design. In all other material respects, the car was restored as original. Mechanically, the engine, transmission, suspension, steering and brakes were all rebuilt including accessories such as the magneto, carburetor, etc. Summary Most historians agree that the Limiteds are among the most important of the big brass cars, and they are certainly far rarer today than their contemporary 6/70 Thomases or Model 66 Pierces. No other brass era car is as large or impressive as the Limited, and yet they are so well built that surviving examples effortlessly complete 1,000-mile tours, easily reaching speeds of 70 mph or more. With so few survivors, the Limited is considered by many to be one of the most important artifacts of early American motoring. It is in many ways the spiritual forebear of American motoring – large, fast and equipped to handle long trips. It was true in 1908, and it remains so today.

This strange pairing is coming up soon: http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=AM11&CarID=r129&fc=0 The 'A' is too rare to have done this, IMO.

I see the DeSoto Adventurer projected to sell between $125K and $150K, dropped the hammer at $187K. Looks like this strata of the hobby isn't feeling the recession as much as those of us a few notches below. Nice for the seller.

For, in general, the average person hauling around much more stuff than 20 or 40 years, the inverse shrinking of cargo space is really puzzling. It's been stated here before; that if mainstream sedans hadn't shrunk so incredibly much, the move to trucks would not have been so tidal.

Agreed, but CAFE/aerodynamics will never allow a tapered-down decklid anything remotely like what you pictured. It's 'short & high' for perpetuity, I'm afraid. See, I prefer that- the longer hood/uber stubby deck is generic at this point. Even within that '60s era- I prefer the short hood/long deck look. Another issue of modern execution is to put all sorts of paneling & fuzzy nappy material inside, so the tender-footed don't get upset seeing the inside of the quarter panels or the actual RR wheelwells. Cuts down on cargo space visually, and in actuality. Frankly, every mid- & full-size car out there could use another 3-5" of overall width. Now... try not to get lost in the roundness of form, the fact that it has no sideview mirrors, that it has no cupholders, and just get the point of a short hood/long deck proportion. I already know you hate it, but that proportion today is unknown. If we at least could get something going back towards this: where, tho the deck itself isn't long due to the tapered greenhouse, there's more rear overhang than frontal, I'd be happier.

Those upright vehicles had FAR better visibility than the equivalent versions today, at least in the 270-degree range. Thinner, way less bulky pillars farther away from your eye, huge windshields & long side glass. Note the size of the '50 Drew posted: 121" wheelbase & an overall height right about 65"- she's a huge b**ch. So that backlight is larger than you may think. Yea- it's relatively narrow, but back then there were no smarts or minis to watch out for, either. I daily drove a car for 2 years with no RH sideview & a LH sideview that was fender-mounted; it certainly wasn't a PITA to drive, and this in Jersey. In the day- everybody did it. Hopefully one day studies will show that pillars 4" deep & 3" thick, 5" from your eyes and right over your shoulder make visibility a dangerous situation, and more moderate execution will return.

I can't decide if I'm intriqued or repulsed by this :

it has been said more than once that ESP II is a longer wheelbase, including by Welburn. This has been posted here repeatedly. What I don't care for as much is the taller side glass vs. the concept. It may just be the height of the beltline tho. Too much camo to tell much of anything.

Picked up the wife's car- CTS-V and the Cruze were wearing Michigan plates. CTS-V is truly an amazing sculpture. Had the black/yellow interior trim. Cruze looked pretty nice, tho not outside of it's segment, IMO. There was a Volt in the service bay- first I've seen- seems a lot more detailed & unique than the prius. I'm going to assume those front grille inserts are plastic, but they were firm & solid enough to make one consider them being metal.

Just dropped the wife's car off for maintenance- red Camaro RS convertible and a silver CTS-V coupe were there, both looking bitchin'. CTS coupe up close looks better/smaller from the rear than in pics. My spontaneous comment: "It's a friggin UFO", and by that I was very impressed. 'Dynamic' doesn't cover it. There was a dark blue Cruze there- but I didn't have time to check any of them out.

I've seen other boards, for EX, use a 25 post min until you can post to their classified- which makes sense with some of the 'spammer hawkers' out there if you have a focused site, but not sure what a 5-post min until posting in politics would filter out.

I am going to contemplate selling my first car, because I have not touched it in many years and it's 3rd on my car 'to-get-to' list. It also makes no sense to restore it financially, in that I can buy a beautiful driver for half the cost to do this one up (and mine is in relative great shape- needs cosmetics and some mechanics due to age, but no metal or damage repair). And if I don't get something done on vehicle #2 on the list this year, that may go as well.

Hope the CTS doesn't grow in size at all, it's actually 2" shorter than the 5-series right now; if it gets longer all we'll hear is the whiners whining 'GM doesn't know how to compete'. Have there been any reliable projections of ATS dimensions yet?

Seems apparent, that some degree of sedan saturation or diminished advancement was reached, and the image-compromising (for BMW) SUV segment 'had' to be plowed into on an industrial force level. This- to drive revenues & stock pricing. Fumbling their SB message is way down the laundry list of BMW 'going soft', IMO. At one point when BMW was on point, there was an 8-series and the M1, but now, instead, we get the X3, 1-series and upcoming FWD models. Frankly, I don't feel the brand is able to support those top-range models, so their demise isn't really surprising. One thing that is, is, that the 6-series hasn't been dropped yet. Going soft, much?

Assumedly the 30 million + that have satellite TV occasionally catch a few.