balthazar

You hang in there, Mr MC/SBC.

OG- did you mean in your hand? Is it definately out finally ?

So... let's adjust these lavish subsidies to 2008 dollars : Nissan, Smyrna, Tennesee, 1980 - $233 million :: $610 million Toyota, Georgetown, Kentucky, 1985 - $147 million :: $295 million Honda, Anna, Ohio, 1985 - $27 million :: $54 million Subaru, Lafayette, Indiana 1986 - $94 million :: $185 million Honda, East Liberty, Ohio, 1987 - $27 million :: $51 million BMW, Spartanburg, South Carolina, 1992 - $150 million :: $230 million Mercedes-Benz, Vance, Alabama, 1993 - $258 million :: $385 million Toyota, Princeton, Indiana, 1995 - $30 million :: $42 million Nissan, Decherd, Tennessee, 1995 - $200 million :: $283 million Toyota, Buffalo, West Virginia, 1996 - more than $15 million :: $20 million Honda, Lincoln, Alabama, 1999 - $248 million :: $321 million Nissan, Canton, Mississippi, 2000 - $295 million :: $369 million Toyota, Huntsville, Alabama, 2001 - $30 million :: $36 million Hyundai, Montgomery, Alabama, 2002 - $252 million :: $302 million Toyota, San Antonio, Texas, 2003 - $133 million :: $156 million Kia, West Point, Georgia, 2006 - $400 million :: $428 million Honda, Greensburg, Indiana, 2006 - $141 million :: $150 million Toyota, Blue Springs, Mississippi - $300 million :: $321 million Volkswagen, Chattanooga, Tennessee, 2008 - $577 million :: $577 million TOTAL :: 4,815,000,000 or 4.8 Billion. Pretty sure the media would have taken the 3 minutes I took to convert this to '08 dollars.... had this been the domestic plants we were talking about.... AND rounded it up to $5 billion while they were at it.

>>"2) It already has a solid foundation for green technology"<< Just as many have suggested -say- 'the Enclave could easily be moved to Cadillac', green tech is much EASIER to move, as it is the property of no one division. And being a GM enthusiast, WRT the sheer number & types of vehicles, is nothing like being a saab enthusiast- which is basically 1 vehicle with the same specs as it had 20 years ago, morphed into a few others. saab has the baggage of being an also-ran that couldn't compete on it's own at it's peak in the '80s, and has shrunk considerably in appeal since.

Why do you have to be so mean ?

>>"My anti-Saab and anti-Saturn sentiment was because these divisions were being valued AT THE EXPENSE of Pontiac. But now that Pontiac is saf(er) I think we can focus on these two."<< WTH ?? There's no potential. 'Loyalists' will not allow saab to progress at the 'expense' of 'saab's character/quirkiness', whatever that means. Fold saab money immediately into the other core divisions.

Pretty sure that wagon glass is repro'd. After all it was also offered in Chevy wagons. Very cool wagon- I've still not seen one in person yet. BTW- I'd cruise that wagon exactly as is. Maybe slap some cherry bomb mufflers on it. Park re-eeal close to bmws & merses, too. I hunt pics all the time, my hard drive bulges with them. Tee-hee: I said 'hard drive buldges'. Moltie hit it exactly: Buick 'road wheel' came out as optional on the '64 Wildcat (and that's the first time we see them in print ads), spread to the Riv for '65. Ended with the last of the RWDs- I have an '84 ad showing an Electra wagon wearing them. Great looking wheel, but doesn't 'sit right' on a '59.

>>"I look forward to your "spots" because you're one of the few here that understands that seeing 29 brand new Accords and Camrys and Malibus in your travels isn't really a "spot" and therefore not worth mentioning."<< Thank you, sir, and how RIGHT you are!! {"I saw a silver mercedes CLKHFQ-sedan with the optional 19" wheels today."} Jesus; they're going to be on every other street corner in 4 months, boring the s**t out of even the spotter. Who gives a flying f**k at a rolling doughnut ?!!? >>"Nice sig, balthy."<< Ain't she a sweetheart ?? Damn! >>"Sad to see a Bird die."<< Not dead; sleeping.

You don't seem to realize... . .. . you already . .. 'are' . toyota.. . ... .. . . .. .

>>"Imagine it was his own son. "<< I raised him right so far- he appreciates domestic iron, esp vintage. I took him to a vintage junkyard auction this summer- he was awestruck. Once he's of driving age, I seriously doubt he'd be interested in a bloated fleet sh!tbox like an xb. This pink nightmare is NOTHING compared to some of those 'transformer' mini vans with the multiple 5' spikes all over them and a paint job influenced by the Bedazzler : oops- obviously a pre-paint-splattered moment...

If anything is 'generic', its the most commonplace 'lux' SUV on the road. And no one who drives an rx has any idea which wheels are moving the vehicle. BTW- C&D recently ran a 8 $50K SUV comparison and ranked them thusly : 1. acura mdx 2. Cadillac SRX 3. bmw x5 4. mercedes ml350 5. toyota gx470 6. volvo xc90 7. volks touareg 8. land rover lr3 If magazine reviews carry any weight with you, you might want to check it out. I expect the '10 SRX to show the same class advances the CTS has in its.

>>"The rear clearance issue comes into play with trailering or flatbeds...the rear overhang behind the wheels is so long, it'll drag the gas tank if it sits too low. Happened to be a few times before mine was restored."<< Know it well from daily driving a '64 Cat (on 70-series tires) & a '65 Bonneville. Can happen when the load rate decreases over time (which the Bonne was experiencing)... but in that I came into these cars well past their prime, all the stock height cars look high and cars like that green '68 look like 4x4s to me. I do not recall ever scraping any surfaces. >>"In theory that particular car could have the rear air adjustable shock option, but the other details that are "off" make me think they just used the wrong springs."<< My '59 came to me with the front springs so wrong, the suspension was completely 'bottomed out' all the time, yet somehow the car never looked like it was riding high. I have 1" lower springs up front now, plus the front tires will be slightly shorter. Looking for a mild rake...

I don't think this SUV has ever been good enough for it to have been "ruined", sorry. toyota/lexus looks like hyundai because of the Great Homogenization. Generica version 5.0. Hoofda!- that interior has all the class of a high school shop project. Lookit the tiny cheap little pedals hanging there- corolla parts bin specials ?? Disasterous. Unfortunately, this is the general theme to come- wacky-n-tacky cause everything else has been done already...

Right, BP; but HE thinks it's factory-correct. Silver 8-lug hubs after '63- sheesh! Yer car is factory: sitting level, with the bottom of the rockers somewhere halfway between the center cap & the bottom edge of the rim. That's Mayfair Maize, right? >>"At least it has enough clearance for driveways and curbs.. "<< Look at BP's '68- plenty of clearance for driveways. I had plenty for my '64 Catalina and it was even lower. And anyone driving these over curbs prolly doesn't care about clearances....

GM dominated so utterly in the past due to brand autonomy- even tho by -say- '65: Pontiac, Buick & Olds only really had 2 cars each (intermediate & full-size), and Chevy had these also, in addition to the Corvair. Corvette & Chevy II. 'Overlap city', some might say. 'How could that possibly have worked, it's doesn't work now?' those same folk will naively wonder. IMO, the first misstep was the discontinuance of proprietory engines- those were the core & soul of each division, and that soul was ripped out. Adding "GM" badges to the sides of every GM model ranks right up there with the worst decisions made, tho by the time this was done, the 'perception bed' was already made, and long ago. Consider those badges the mint on the pillow of that bed.

moltie- {rhetorical} what the hell is up (no pun intended) with the rear of that '68 in yer sig - it's ridin' like a damned Jeep. It's embarassing! It's an automotive upskirt shot! Rear should be a full 4" lower at minimum. Front could drop another 1", too. I HATE these factory-spec restos with full-spec-plus coils- amazing that people with such good taste in cars have such a bad eye for stance.

Well, 4 of those were solo sightings- the rest were at a local auction, but too tasty to pass on mentioning. There was no stated rule saying these had to be cars in motion, right ?

'?? Ford Model A frame & 4 cyl/ steering column, mechanical brakes. '30 Ford Model A Fordor, brown w/ black fenders, excellent restoration. '36 Ford Standard Fordor, missing grille, hood inside car, complete but unrestored. circa '38 sedan, peeking out of an engulfing thorn bush in a backyard. '48 DeSoto 4-dr sedan, grey, unrestored but complete. '50 Pontiac 2-dr sedan, teal-ish, rough, missing doors, I-8 underhood. '57 Chevy pickup, white with red band around rear of greenhouse, restored/modified with late-model fenderside bed. '58 Ford F-100 StyleSide pickup, yellow, solid but unrestored. '62 Ford F-100, pewter over white, perfect, for sale. '64 Ford Galaxie 500 XL convertible, dark blue, needing complete restoration, for sale on a trailer. '68 Firebird hardtop, never moves from local driveway.

>>"Heck it's amazing how few people even understand Cadillac and Chevy are GM brands. This is a fundamental marketing concept GM doesn't or is unwilling to understand. "<< I disagree completely : there is no reason to tie the divisions into "GM" via marketing- there is no perception advantage in doing so. The brands need to stand on their own- image diversification, perception autonomy... this way (theoretically) no one brand can pull down any others and the constant misguided harping on 'rebadges' and 'too many brands' boils off. In recent times 'GM' does not have the rosy image it had decades past, plus slapping those 'GM' badges on the doors/fenders is nothing anyone asked for. In recent times it has all been 'corporation, corporation, corporation' and far too little 'Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, GMC', and the only result that has returned is the dilution of brand strength. It MUST reverse...

No ad link- I checked this truck out Friday at a local auction- 3,288 miles, absolutely showroom perfect. 2WD, long bed, Cheyenne package, automatic, black w/ red interior. I don't even kno what motor was underhood, but there hadn't even been anything in the bed to scratch it up, chrome was perfect- it was sorely tempting, but I didn't need it. I shudder to think what it might have gone for- I didn't go back to the auction; it was bittterly cold today and auctions have a way of lasting most of the day... I could see a limited turnout sending someone home with a brand new truck for maybe $2K.

>>"there is no harm in saab being marketed in the cadillac channel"<< saab is not a premium brand in either reality or image. Helplessly mired in self-parody of their own '80s, half a line of rebadges, the rest FWD- dead weight, just about worthless from any standpoint. Sell it sell it sell it.

Fascinating theory that saab is sales-hampered due to a lack of dealerships, because the product is 'all that'.

>>"Toyota plants in Kentucky are sitting pretty: “We also have other auto manufacturers who are doing quite well,” McConnell said, naming Toyota’s Georgetown, Ky., operation. “It happens not to be American companies and that is sad. But it’s not like we don’t have success in the auto industry. We do.”"<< No one who has a finger in determining the outcome of this issue has any sort of grasp on the situation, and that's the scariest part of it all. Where has toyota reported the profitability/loss for an individual assembly plant ?? toyota plants are 'doing well' because they're attached to a global sales whore...oops, success story. The plants do not stand or fall on their own- they are bankrolled by the corporation, and the corp has cash. Don't GM assembly plants top the list for plant efficiency ? Because everyone drives a car, everyone is an expert. I'll say this again- this is an extremely complex and quite emotion-driven issue, and. I heard a 'industry analyst' on Bloomberg radio this morning. Guy was saying 'if you look at the domestic cars, they have x-amount of content from numerous foreign countries in them'... and... 'the foreign plants are doing well'. This completely ignores the fact that x-amount of AMERICAN parts are in all the FOREIGN nameplate vehicles assembled here also. None of those suppliers are going to be viable if 50% of the new car market volume dissapears. Isn't this the link between a domesic industry failure and as some have said- the foreign makes pulling out of their U.S. plants as a result ?

Yea; while I was farting around on google looking for a S60S pic with the door open, post #2 & 3 appeared - I missed your mention of that. I always disliked the S60S because as a top-line sedan, it should've been a hardtop. The roof treatment was unique, tho.

SMK- yer link is to a vote RE H.R. 7005, the Alternative Minimum Tax Relief Act of 2008, not the autoamker bridge loan. And there would be no 'salvaging' under Chapter 11.