balthazar

>>"What about that DISGUSTINGLY long front overhang? I'm surprised no one is APPALLED at how OBSCENELY long it is!"<< Perception colors so much; like dodgefan mentioned- most of the derogatory comment toward FWD cars has been the "huge front overhang", when the reality is numerous sports cars have a far longer overhangs. Therefore I submit- it's not the frontal overhang itself that's the problem, the complaint about it is merely a stretch to associate some physical characteristic to FWD to give it a more tangibile 'hate factor'. Frankly, overhangs, period, have been the target of undue criticism, IMO. It seems the end goal of some is to push the wheels beyond the bumpers, ala:

>>"#1. While my Guitar gently Weeps, the Beetles"<< Isn't that the 'Beatles' ?? No offense, Chris, but that ain't rock-n-roll. Agreed on 'Stairway', XP. Good God. I couldn't narrow it to a top 3.

That Kaiser is a full-on custom. Nicely done, tho still a bit bizarre.

Yes- I've read that also. Whether it would have bolstered Edsel by '61, I don't know. Obviously, Ford decided it was better placed as a Merc.

For driving dynamics, sure, but not necc for luxury. Still, RWD does not connotate 'luxury' for me, but as you know, my grounding is in vintage-era vehicles, which were all RWD. I could see how you might equate it with that today, by association. But I still feel you are crossing up 2 exclusive criteria WRT 'lux' & drive wheels. In other words, no reason to discount the 'lux' factor of this FWD/AWD SRX before it's finalized, just because it's not RWD. Interior, materials, ergonomics, features, styling could be head & shoulders above -say- the X3/X5 siblings.

The 'lux' factor has zero to do with which wheels are driving.

My God, he is an extrodinarily poor writer.

>>"...how the rear deck at the base of the rear window just very slightly comes up to meet the slim pillar."<< It's interesting, but I always felt the lil' turn-up at the C-pillar a bit awkward somehow. If it was all on one plane around the greenhouse, it'd be '59-60.... I assume it was merely done for that 'new!' look.

>>"This thing won't outsell the RX350 because it doesn't have the Lexus reputation. Since they aren't offering any premium chassis or engines or anything, "<< None of the housewives that buy the rx have any idea whatsoever which wheels are driving it, what level the chassis may or may not be, what engine is underhood, "or anything". It's a gussied up toyota- currently the volume whore in the market- it does not sell based on anything other than sentiment towards lexus- whatever that may mean in general.

>>"Did you know that one of the reasons the Ford Edsel didn't do well, that people felt the center grill looked like a vagina?"<< I do not believe this is literally factual. I believe this is hindsight conjecture. Truth is, vertical grilles on 'horizontal' cars lean towards 'unnatural'. 'I wonder why Ford gave up so quickly' You answered your own question: the recession. DeSoto & Edsel never got a compact to help bolster their numbers- then again; they weren't really in the position to get one, anyway.

That white car is a custom- in fact there's at least 2 different '62s that had a '61 greenhouse grafted on. It's not factory. Only the Chevy could be had as such.

Perhaps GM had the same reaction a number of the wild-eyed have had here: bankruptcy means everything will someday emerge penny-bright in the sunshine... meanwhile back on the ground, a filing in Aug may have only just recently resulted in liquidation (aren't we now talking Chap 7 ??) that would have the tooling GM needs going to a random bidder...

Edsels "warmed over Fords" -no. Different everything in '58. '59-60 was a big shift to major Ford componentry, yes, but not in '58. DeSoto had one of it's best years every in '57, but the drop in the mid-priced segment for '58 was something it really never recovered from. Unfortunately.

Car #1 : I did not know this car from memory- had to look it up, pointed to by cars #2 & #3. I have it's name. Car #2 : This one I know very well, tho NOT by the name you are looking for. I know it only as the 'M S'. Car#3 : Another one I know very well, but I feel you gave away too much in this clue. Maybe someone else knows... 68: you are sending me off in a quest to find out if #2 still exists, right now.... EDIT :: thank God - it does. Gotta see it someday. Better yet, would love to build a homage. The greenhouse is to die for.

Having been thru the mill @ CCS my freshman year, there's not a lot of carryover from transportation design to VisCom / graphic design- esp WRT credit transfer. Unfortunately. Not only is the education expensive, the schools (CCS at least) admits 4 times the # of students they have any intention of graduating. It's not that the cirriculum is that tough or that the standards are that high (that blob up above is the exact same thing we were designing in the '80s- more proof that progress in design is truely dead), it's that the degree is so specialized that the schools like to promote their placement rates. Without really good placement rates, your 4 years of tuition is wasted. When I was there, the previous year's graduating class was 12, & that was the largest anyone could remember. The above is the reality of the industry... which is why I pine for the scene in Tucker where Tremulis walks up to Tucker, shows him a few sketches and gets hired.

Yep- Delta-Wing = sweetness. I want to make a clarification from my above post. I glossed over that you stated : >>"The Olds big block 400-425-455"<<. I answered as if you had asked about Buick small vs. big blocks (which is what you WERE asking, right?). I BELIEVE Olds worked the same way- but I've never looked into Olds' engine story. But the Buick small- & big blocks share very little; its not merely a short/tall deck situation.

>>"It failed I think principally because it was hyped up to be like the Second Coming, when it turned out to be nothing extraordinary."<< ^-- reason #1. >>"I think it also hit just at the point were there was a really bad recession..."<< ^-- reason #2. The entire mid-priced market contracted heavily in '58. Edsel still set records for a new mid-priced line, over 200K units moved in '58. The '58 was a pretty well-developed car, lots of features & details were extremely attractive, but, for me and many others, the styling wasn't one of those. Don't get me wrong- I'd drive a '58 2-dr hdtp in a second, but I do not lust after them and I don't count them among my favored styling efforts. I LOVE the vertical grille, it's the side grilles & the front bumper esp that are too after-thought-ish for me to warm to. Here's a quickie customization which 'fixes' the 'mistakes' of the stock front for me. Sorry for the rough quality- I did half on tracing paper and xeroxed the other half. Like I said: quickie : A buddy had the most common Edsel made, the only one to break the 5-figure production mark, a black '59 Ranger 4-dr sedan. He got it for nothing off the father of a girl he was dating. It sat out in their barn, and with a roll-up door on opposing walls, plus a few six-packs, he & I had a blast, feeling like we were on the assembly line, as we re-hung all 4 doors. Door #1 closed with a snik of perfection, but by the time we got door #4 on... let's just say it needed further adjustment. Did a crapload of work on that car over a few weeks- then he was forced to get it out of there. Towing it a good 25 miles to a storage building, we had to use a floor jack to turn the Edsal the 90-degrees to stuff it in next to the building's door. He paid storage fes for about a year, then abandoned it. We never found out what happened to it.

Yea- tho I prefer the pre-fuselage MoPars, the '71 SF GT gits me. Can you make it out: there's big 'G' and 'T' letters inside the hood stripes, up near the windshield, plus the long-time red, white & blue Sport Fury dashes, here atop the fenders. These details, the 8-port grille w/ covered headlights, plus shoe it with a set of those rare cast magnesium rims and a Six Pack 440 underhood - Delicious. Near the last gasp of true Mopar spirit here. the '70 GT is sweet, too (tho I like the more intricate '71 grillework) :

I like a goodly bunch of various Ply-Mouths, esp the '57-58s, and that '70 GTX & '71 RR pic'd above. I like the '41 coupes, too.

>>"...300, 340 & 350 CID V8s from the 1960s-70s were "small blocks" and had their roots in the early 1960s 215 CID V8"<< True. Tho a new casting, the replacement iron-block 300 retained a number of dimensions of the 215. 215 was always an aluminum block. >>"I also have it rolling around in my head that the modern Buick "big blocks" were intro'd for 1967 and were available in 400, 430 and 455 CID versions (1970 for the 455). Is this summary essentially true?"<< True. >>"Are the 1967+ big blocks related at all to the previous nail-head V8s? How about the small blocks?"<< No and no. The 'nailheads' were vertical valve engines, the big & small blocks were angled-valve. No carryover. >>"Did the early Olds F85/Cutlass come with the Buick 215 V8?"<< True, for the same years Buick offered it: '61-63. Also available but rarely ordered in the Tempest / LeMans's for the same years. Buick sold the tooling for the 215 in '64. >>"Were the small- and big-block engines completely distinct?"<< Yes. See below (The Olds big block 400-425-455 engines were essentially tall deck versions of the 260-307-330-350-403 small block, IIRC.)"<<[/i] Incorrect; they do not share major components and the blocks themselves are different sizes (beyond even the low- / tall-deck aspect). They are completely distinct as you guessed above. If being interested in these sorts of things makes one a 'geek', I must be your King.

I entered a new stage in home life today- my son just unwrapped his electric guitar.... Merry Christmas ev'rbody... hope everyone finds a way to keep a smidge of it in them all year round. Stay safe and treasure your family!

I will clarify: I do not really think it's dumpy or fat. It's a nice design, but absolutely generic except in 1 detail- the 'fish mouth' grille is relatively unique. Take that away, and what am I supposed to be wowed over ?? : Frankly, the Buick has a far more fluid character line thru the body & a more fluid rear fender radius. I don't think either the Buick's rear quarter windows, nor maserati's abruptly truncated side glass are the best solution. Most all of the other details (greenhouse, bumper integration, body hardware, etc) are interchangable in execution. Same fisher Price door handles, same body-colored blob mirrors, same chrome-encircled side glass, same 'add-on' rocker trim, even the same multi-spoke 5-lug rims. And the maserati looks like what it unquestionably is: a stretched 2-dr. Nice, but generic, as is the Buick. I don't confuse the two on the road, but nor do I make distinctions between them design quality-wise.

>>"Ton of good info here:"<< >>""If you’re going to go 300 mph in a stock-bodied production car at Bonneville, the car of choice is a Pontiac Firebird," said Joe Kugel. "Out of all the production cars, it probably has the lowest drag as far as aerodynamics are concerned, and at 300 mph, this Firebird has to be the most stable vehicle that’s ever been built."<<

The lowness of a vehicle to the ground absolutely will affect the .cd number, as the 'greasy side' is far less aerodynamic than the 'shiny side'; so the less of the air stream going underneath, the better. I would doubt real advances in aerodynamic tuning have been made since the '80s- it's merely a matter of trial & error with the results calculated. But 2 vehciles with vastly different shapes can still come out with the same .cd. BTW, the '48 Tucker had a calculated cd of .27. That car had a very fluid taper front-to-rear, plus less air flow resistance due to being rear engined. Also, longer shapes work better at 're-pasting' air flow than shorter ones. But one still cannot judge a vehicle visually. >>"The Volt concept had a Cd of .42"<< A '60 Cadillac coupe is .45. I for one would not think them that close.

>>"Or that M-B and BMW don't sell 60% of their cars to rental car companies?"<< In Germany they do- mercedes: 50% and BMW: 67% rental/fleet. That pretty much averages to the neighborhood fo 60%. No doubt fleet sales in the rest of europe are high, too; no reason to think Germany would be an anomoly here. XF Jag needs a bunch more refinement to compete with the class leaders- it's not there, yet. And reliability remains the perpetual question...