balthazar

>>"There are businesses that dont exist to maximize profit?"<< My car insurance Co is the best in the state, no stockholders, & has given dividend checks every year since 1918. Sure they make a profit, but in not being beholden to stockholders and quarterly statements, they are able to concetrate on efficiency & service. In 2007 they had 0 complaints with 790K insured vehicles, and I got a dividend check of $299.18 back. I would qualify that as not 'maximizing profit' in that they certainly do not owe anyone that check.

Umm, where did I say that? Thought so. Neither of these is a Buick as it should be, so save yourself the trouble of telling us we'd all love it with a Tri-Shield on the grille.

Yes, please elaborate, ocn. I am sick of errors in quality historical tomes- this was supposed to be the ultimate GM concept book. Plus, someone PLEASE tell me if there's a numerical listing of all the XP codes !!

Ahh- the weather sucked Sat- biting cold, plus most auctions of this volume last all day, and I was not up for standing outside all day. Plus- I really should not be spending money right now... but Jeez that was a candy-sweet Cheyenne. I'm going to try and contact the auction Co next week and find out if/how much it went for. From Friday's inspection day, I have no idea if there were reserves on anything or not- maybe some of the stuff is still available...

According to the press of the day, it was still a nice little 'sport sedan' that handled very well. Jump to the V-6/5-spd and you got performance quite competitive in it's class. In that Cadillac entered the J-program late, they still did quite a bit with the car, tho the visual connection was undeniable, yes. CARBIZ is completely correct - the sentiment today is revisionistic. In other words, look at the car as if the Cavalier never existed if you can, because not a single detractor has been able to judge the car on it's own merits ...

Don't leave out Big Brother & Uncle Sam on every level... rancidly corrupt across the board.

Wow- such a touchy-feely love-in for hyundai going on here ! Run right out & place yer orders, guys, yer dream sedan is here! >>"Put some port holes on the front fenders, Buick badges, and waterfall grille and everyone here would be going ga-ga over it. "<< Bull&#036;h&#33;. Everyone here would be moaning that it's not a Buick. And how can you presume to speak for others? You're not speaking for me, I can tell you that. The peak power level is great, but these cars are not raced or even pushed. Peak HP is not going to sell this car to one more person than if it had 275 HP. The azera, the prior, pseudo-upscale sedan was a sales flop. Was it because it was FWD? No, most in this class don't know or care. Supposedly that car was competitive, but it's penetration in its class was dismal IIRC. The 'lazy H' badge have anything at all to do with that? Gee.... VW has a far better & more upscale rep than hyundai may ever have, and tho it's idiotically-named phaeton was grotesquely overpriced, it was in line with it's intended market. It flopped, and most point to the badge as the problem as opposed to the car. hyundai is certainly no aspirational badge. Not to mention, it's a pretty rotten time to launch a conspicuous-consumption 375-HP lux sedan in a crowded segment in today's market... We'll see how well this worn bar of blandness sells...

Not up on tire sizing, per say?

..but that would get offset by their increased, pro-rated GDP contribution...

Sure- a typical tire would be more in the range of 285/75-16 or -18. 24s with 40-series tires ??? Base '09 Corvette wears 40-series tires up front, 35-series in the RR.

turbo200- >>"...and that laughter that was so condescending and inappropriate, and ironically as time goes on, being proven wrong again and again. I just don't have the time, and am content enough knowing I see the truth."<< I... did not... realize... that you were such the delicate flower. Let's hug. -- -- -- -- -- Bangled bmws utilize the far-fetched named 'flame surfacing' which blended hard-edges character lines within amorphous envelopes. The profile shows zero character lines, and there's nothing I see (and i see nearly 100 BMWs daily) influenced by Bangle- even the hood reveal evoks Lincoln rather than BMW. Perhaps you were referring to the interior.... I still see a shapeless, generic blob with no design language other than maybe a few minor cribbed cues. $40 grand for complete anonymity?? I just don't see it. Is the azera dead, or are these 2 going to be fighting for buyers in the same showroom?

My buddy's business partner runs a towing service. He has a brand new F-350 tow truck, all tricked out with chrome & some tasteful graphics, riding on what has to be custom-milled, polished alumium multi-spoke rims. Still the same factory 8-lug hubs, too. Tire size.... this is a tow truck, folks ... is 295/40-24.

There is also a problem in the definition of 'obese', because the simple formula does nothing to account for frame size or muscle mass. Now, this won't apply to children, but it's inheritantly flawed WRT adults. -- -- -- -- -- http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/ Underweight = <18.5 Normal weight = 18.5-24.9 Overweight = 25-29.9 Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater -- -- -- -- -- I could lose 10 lbs but not -say- 20; I'm built real solid & my BMI is a whopping 30.7. According to the Gov, I'm "obese" and I would need to lose almost 60 lbs to put me in the middle of "normal". I'd have to saw off a leg at the hip and then start a diet to even approach that. The sugared soda tax is ridiculous, IMO. Diet soda's artificial sweeteners should never have been approved, I cannot drink diet because Nutrasweet crystalizes and settles in the joints, painfully. I usually drink iced teas as opposed to soda, but those have as much sugar as soda- are they going to be taxed next ?? It's an obvious money grab for poorly managed budgets.... let's call it what one could- a bailout for the failed policies of city government. The last thing people need in this economy is a laundry list of new taxes (isn't it something like 132 proposed new taxes?). Why not just prohibit sodas & teas & sweetened juices to kids under 18 if they were serious about health.... ohh, right; because it's really about money, not health.

Because GM is permanently connected with a high volume image. Sales #s do not matter, esp w/ a car of this class. As long as Pontiac makes a profit on the G8 / G8 GXP, it's a success, even if that is only 50 GXPs. Whether or not that turns out to be the case, who knows.

>>"better than crushing them (which the bean counters probably reccomended). "<< That would be the lawyers. '90s one-offs certainly cannot hold a candle to the real & unique dream cars - I don't see them as influencing much; more like tangents to progress rather than steps forward.

A-ha-ha. O-ho-ho. Tee-hee. So what would Pontiac's 1 model be, or did I miss that PR? The G3 ? The Vibe? Why bother. When is Zeta slated to die?

I see a Pontiac ST as a low-volume alternative to some people coming out of trucks- I think it would prove itself viable. Rampage & VW truck were awful vehicles with no aspirational attributes- no wonder they bombed. Besides, the 'ElCamino final verdict' was a lo-oong time ago; perceptions & wants/needs change. The investment would be minimal.

Tho I twice almost bought 2 different '70 Polara coupes with the SuperLight option, I cannot really get into the 'fuselage' MoPars; too bland... no character lines. They are appealingly massive, tho. In this era- gimme a '68:

Gonna piggyback another Leno vid on here- I so love everything he did to this car except 1 thing- there's a Chevy engine underhood. Otherwise- it embodies 85% of what I'm going for with my B-59. Enjoy, and lookit that SMOKE!

Sweet car. There was a '68 convert in the junkyard near me- one of 474 units. I do like the '67-68s out of all the post-fin Imps. Jay made a mistake tho: "...cast-iron TorqueFlite...". TorqueFlite switched to an aluminum case for '60. Imperial could've been different --they didn't go unibody until '67 IIRC vs. '60 for all the other ChryCo's-- but there's no engineering reason to use 2 different case materials.

>>"...At first news outlets attributed the recalls, cost overruns, and other problems to "growing pains..."<< 'Growing pains' are experienced by new companies, encountering business challenges or major changes for the first time. toyoda has been around since the 1940s; that BS 'growing pains' line doesn't hold a single drop of water.

I guarantee it interchanges with Buick's sibling's wagons, which would be Chevy, Olds & Pontiac, '59-60. Not sure if it's repro'd, but I would bet it is. I've never heard that it's a problem. Easy enough to search around & verify that. Besides, enough used glass that you could find it somewhere. Windshields are a breeze- I'm looking at replacing mine because of 2 close stone chips in the driver's field of vision - $402. All the rest of the glass is flat (=cheap). The '55-57 Nomad / Safari 2-dr sport wagons are a LOT more rare, but they share glass, too., and I'd bet it's repro'd, too. Only glass offhand that I KNOW is not reproduced and is a constant worry is the extended windshields on professional cars (hearses/ambulances). Nobody makes those. Go get it!

>>"It seems to have worked for the airline industry."<< The gi-mungeous difference is that with the airlines, all you as a consumer buy is a ticket and a seat for x hour(s). If they go bankrupt, there are pentiful other choices, and when they fly again, it's not that big of a deal to drop another -say- $200 and try them again. With an automobile, you buy a complicated product that costs anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 or more, that you keep for x year(s) and xxx,000 miles, that will at some point require specialized service, parts and warranty claims.

If Pontiac is indeed to become a 1-model marque for a while, and somehow that 1 model could incorporate the G8 sedan, a G8 coupe and ST, I'm fine with that. It reminds me of pre-1961 when Pontiac had 1 basic body with a variety of styles & trims- could work really well for that small of an investment- since the point about having no domestic competition (there is foreign competition, tho) is a great one. I'd be saddened to see the Solstice go, but that tradeoff would be one I'd vote for if the 3-variant G8 line would see daylight.

If someone can afford new car payments and their 198x car is tired and nearly worthless- getting a tax credit for scrapping that car is all well & good, but prior state 'tax credit' drives have already proven that people will find parked junks and turn them in. Since the name of the game here is emissions & increased fuel economy, this accomplishes ZERO in that circumstance. I would only be happy if this incentive tax credit 'scrap drive' would only accept running, licensed cars newer than 1980, because anything outside of that is just a cash grab that does nothing evironmentally, and any car outside of that is either already not running, or far too few in number to contribute anything.