balthazar

V-8 Pontiac running hot on the tail of a V-12 ferrari.

>>"...1955 pontiac safari chiefton station wagon."<< That's a '57 Chieftan Safari. 11,536 9-passenger jobs were built- can't be many left in this shape, tho long roofs are very much in vogue these days. GS-CA is sweet with those rims, tho that funky vinyl top treatment on the C-pillar always irked me.

hyperv6 >>"Pontiac needs a rehash they have not seen since Bunkies day. If he had just targeted the Pontiac fans in 1957 Pontiac would have not ever seen the GTO and a new wave of younger buyers. You need to give the people under 40 some reason to look as of now they no longer we build excitment after the last 20 years. The new cars like the G8 deserve bettter than a con line for a FWD Grand Am."<< Thing of it was, is, Pontiac didn't really use much in the way of advertising taglines in '50s advertising, it wasn't until Wide-Track of '59 that a running tagline was used in print advertising. No slogans pulled people in for the '57s, in fact, sales did not eclipse '55 & 56s until '62. The pre-'57s get undue flak (and in turn- the '57s get a bit too much credit), when in actuality, the '55-56s were very popular once the V-8 came on board; it was the pre '55s that were 'Pontiac ol skool'. Anyway... the break for '57 was all product-sourced, not advertising (actually, '57 advertising was on the light side AFA frequency went). If the G8 turns out to be all that to a healthy slice of the consumer base, then the tagline will be immaterial once again. That said, I'm with Camino RE: Ponti-action and Fuel for the soul" -- two real good ones.

Some cool, ol' time pics, Camino! I'd post one of me, but I'd not look forward to getting bashed over the car I'm leaning on. It's already uploaded to photobucket, too....

I read the original as that chosing the M5 was being conformist, not Beethoven.

>>"outageuously cartoonish tacky boy racer thug styling and cheap interior."<< Zzzzmmffph...were you talking about the old M3? :wink:

I don't think I can choose, besides, this becomes 2 different questions depending on whether we're going back to snag future collectibles to flip today, or just cars we'd love to own/keep personally. BTW- gotta love all the love for 1959 here! I will say '59 also: I could pick up a Buick Invicta coupe (Ooo, already got one!), a Seville, plus '57 Eldorado Brougham & Seville, a '57 Bonne and a Tri-P Super Chief Catalina, a '56 & 57 300 Letter car... plus I should be able to score a brace of Tuckers cheap. There's plenty of others- how about the '55 Gaylord? Plus, when Mitchell came on board in '59, he tossed a lot of Earl's concept cars- so assuming I could slip a wing-tip into the back door at GM, I would love to grab a '53 LeMans, the '55 LaS roadster, the '55 Delta 88, the '56 Golden Rocket............. On the other hand, I would be strongly tempted to step into '63 so I could gather an armload of Super Dutys, esp '62-63 GP SDs. I could list 100 vehicles here........

>>"Ever see financial results analysts term 'disappointing'?...that's because somebody (a professional, generally with years of experience in that industry) made a prediction and that expectation wasn't met....It's every industry, not just autos."<< Predictions in the financial industry are almost always an average of numerous opinions... and therefore there is always a range of predictions. Are they close? Often, yes. Are they spot on? Often, no- the range is wider that one would think while being sourced from 'professionals'. >>"Journalists aren't smart? Or well paid? Or knowledgeable?"<< They may be these things, tho it's certainly not a prerequisite. What they often display, however, is laziness and/or sloppiness. Simple factual errors are as common as toyotas. Then there's the pressure --editorially-sourced, most likely, tho some is no doubt peer-sourced-- to sell magazines/newspapers/web clicks, so the straightforward usually takes the backseat to Mr Finger-Popping Hipness and Mrs Cliche'd-to-Death. News is secondary to 'entertainment', and most entertainment is fluff. How much smarts does it take to do entertainment? My issue with the WSJ piece is there is no mention of toyota or the other foreign manufacturers- toyota earns 75% of it's global profit from the U.S., and while they have enough cash to weather a few years (10?) of a downturn, they & all the others must also plan for a contracting U.S. market if they have any sense. So what are their plans ?? There is no mention of foreign makes whatsoever. Journalists' phones too heavy to lift to get a quote there ?? The unwritten implication is : 'they're not mentioned, because they don't NEED to care'.

40 HP is not going to put me in a hyundai over a Camaro; if peak HP is that crucial in my decision, I'd be modding it anyway or buying the V-8. Besides; hyundai has a good 20 years of decent reliability to go before I would trust one. According to Settlemire via hyperv6: >>"From what I was told there will be 2 V6 models one standard issue and one performance 300 HP 3.6 DI non Turbo. Now I was quoted last summer that they may be looking at around 320 HP at that time."<<

In some magazine with a feature on vanity plates, I saw 'FAA QUE'- someone was sleeping down at the DMV.

>>"Gone are the hideously overdesigned, ugly-clad machines such as the Grand Am, Bonneville and the likes. In their place has been introduced simpler, clean cut lines with obvious European design cues (G6 and Cobalt)"<< You DO know where Pontiac got their inspiration for their cladding, right? >>"people are real enthusiasts who appreciate the virtues of all cars"<< I've seen this stated more than once and I cannot agree: passion and preference do not need to encompass every aspect & interpretation of the automobile to be legitimate. Most passions burn stronger when more focused & consistant, and logically, that would make that person more of an enthusiast, at least for that preference, than one who found merit in examples that are, at many times, in direct opposition to another.

I'm with Delta, in a RWD V-6 coupe, I'm in the Challenger rather than this. I want to like the hyundai's beltline dip because it's different, but it doesn't flow for me, and it shows up a long way off. That rear bumper 'wrap-up' from below looks straight off the GP- and I've long thought that element has been played out. Overall, tho, it pushes the envelope for a hyundai.

RE: welding- actually, it becomes less and less useful the newer the car is you're working on. Modern sheetmetal is laughably thin and unweldable, and nearly half of new cars are plastic. But it damned sure came in handy (& neccessary!) working on the '59.

I don't mind 2-tones as long as they follow body contours- the mercedesbach just looks so lame & dated. I'd be interested to see contrasted-colored roofs (provided some character line or trim bit helps the break). Obviously, the mini is textbook for something like that.

What he said. Are we comparing the FWD Malibu 4/6 to the RWD G8 6/8 merely because they are from the same corporation, or does the G8 trump every other 4-dr within a $4-5K range and the Malibu is the top contender ?? :wink:

Yeah- I figured you meant that, but others have said it and others still will read a lot more into it.

Well, if there's a 'plug-n-play' choice for an engine you prefer, by all means that's the way to go (duh!). But just about any motor you can think of has, at one time, been shoehorned into any car you can think of. There's one small tool that allows this, a welder.

This is certainly not an issue with 'the manufacturers force-feeding the market automatics'. Manuals were standard in everything (even Cadillacs) for years after they debuted, and some makes, even their full-sizers, had standard manuals decades & decades after the auto first appeared (Pontiac: 1st year manual standard- 1926. 1st automatic as an option- 1948. 1st year automatic standard (full-size cars)- 1971). 23 years is a very long time for an automotive trend, but the point is- installation percentages AS AN OPTION increased slowly but steadily year after year. The automatic is viewed by most consumers just like any other convenience feature; a time & effort saver, just like delay wipers, ABS, automatic headlights, power steering, etc, etc, etc...; it makes driving easier. Thusly, over 40- or 50-some years, sure; the auto trans has become more & more & more popular. At one point many european brands NEVER had autos- their installation percentages have risen greatly over time, also. Just like cruise control, A/C, power windows, etc etc. reg makes an excellent point RE congestion here in the U.S., too. I've driven a bunch of different manuals from all sorts of eras, I prefer autos. That said, I do think most cars should offer both. But I would not agree with the term "ignorance".

That blatant assymetry in the interior would drive me nuts.

>>"The Invicta name has been used previously on past Buick models, circa late 1950s and 1960s. No, it hasn't been around 30 plus years, but it is a name steeped in Buick's heritage and has little to no negative baggage."<< Trust me 100%- "Invicta" has zero negative baggage, there's just not a incredible amount to speak of of an image there, period. It was the '59-62 mid-line series, the smaller LeSabre body with the big Electra engine, in the spirit of the earlier Century and the later Wildcat full-size performance series... but it has 'fallen thru the cracks of time', esp relative to the heritage the Century & Wildcat enjoy today. It's a great name either way; according to Buick, Invicta means "invincible, unconquerable, unbeatable". I like the overlay pic, but hope to see larger wheelwells/rims than the prototype is wearing.

I'm with Camino on this: a strange mess. I see 2nd-gen Aurora in the beltline... I'm afraid modern design is in a slow grinding toward a halt, so expect to see more 'weirdness' and more copying in the struggle to be 'different'. There's very little freedom in auto design anymore...

It's a real treat to see yet another time-honored Buick cue return- the Sweepspear. So much to pull from from Buick's heritage... Sketch looks interesting, and I the name. :wink:

"Failed to stop leaving private drive, 2 pts, $120" ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I will add that once things seemingly are up to spec (esp after the oil change), instead of just starting it, 'bump' the key 4 or 5 times to pressurize the oil gallery, so when it does turn over, the oil is 'right there'. I don't suppose for one millisec that it has an oil press gauge...

>>"The 80's were all Grand Am, TA and Bonneville."<< Not quite: Sunbird & 6000 were also heavy sellers: J2000/Sunbird averaged 120K from '82-87, 6000 averaged 157K '84-87. 1986: GA- 223K, 6000: 211K. Even the Fiero kicked in 137K in '84! PMD sold 827K in '84, 735K in '85 and 952K in '86, and it was based on far more than 3-4 models... but you know that, hyp. Tho I don't have the totals handy for the '90s, I have little doubt there are also more solid contributors there than 3-4, too. >>"If Pontiac survived with too many models when only few sold they can live with a few models when only a few are expected. "<< At some point, like HP & TRQ, there's a point of intersection... the question is where is it, even within a fully-realized B-P-GMC channel?