FUTURE_OF_GM

I really don't think the ICE will be phased out in our lifetime. Will electric cars be available and will they sell a lot? Absolutely. But I think we'll see a mix more than anything. At least, I hope so. Electric cars suck.

f@#k 'em I'll drive old cars. Besides, I'll have plenty of disposable income to pay whatever taxes they want. (If something like this ever gets passed here, which I'm sure it won't) If that were the case, we would've passed it already.

We all waste money... Whether is be through driving to starbucks and buying a $1.99 frapa/lappa/ghey drink for $5 or buying furniture for $500 that was assembled in China for about $50 Hypocrisy should not cloud our vision.

VW quality problems are widely confirmed by consumers. Now, the media is a different story. (As always, they don't report the facts)

So... Basically, we get RWD cars for 10 more years, then all the fun stops?!?!? How about GM and Ford puts their engineering hats on and engineer the automobile to a better future so that we can buy something more than a piece of $h! Aveo or Corsa circa 2020.

Drumroll please................................................................. My official entry: Pontiac Apropos (ap-ruh-poh) Look it up: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apropos

There's always Catalina...

Yeah, I guess I could've stated that better. I'm talking about basic freedom such as freedom of choice and freedom of speech. There will always have to be boundaries but i guess the real question is; why are the boundaries being tightened? The government just 'told' us that we are no longer allowed to buy big SUVs and powerful cars. California was trying to 'tell' its residents that they cannot use their thermostat at certain times. I am not comfortable with the direction this country and the enviro-hysteria is taking us.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean? Is there really a way that you can misuse freedom? Wouldn't defining freedom negate the very reason for it, i.e. an oxymoron?

Yeah, it's REALLY getting out of control. I'm not sure if it's a backlash to the president or the generally more conservative previous generations or the effect of narrow minded academia or the environmental or just lazy people that have a 'cause' as opposed to a career. What's sad is; the very people who accuse H2 owners et al. of being pretentious, seem to be some of the most pretentious and hypocritical people I know. For instance; my afore mentioned friends expect me to sell my V8 classic cars (That get driven less that 500 miles a year) yet one of them hate handicapped people because they "ruin his designs" one of them has to burn lights in the apartment and have his computer on at all times among other things such as the window down/air or heat combo and he drives a larger, less maintained car than my Focus and drives it very spastically. The other girl doesn't really believe in charity. She'd rather buy a $1000 piece of art to "support the local artists" than give money to anything. Now, I can certainly appreciate her affinity for art but hypocrisy is just that: hypocrisy.

GMC does not, cannot and never carried that image. GMC trucks have always been about quality and durability. Professional Grade sums it up nicely, and the trucks will continue to sell to the suburban 'professional grade' clientele who don't want to be seen in a Chevy but can't afford/don't want the bling of an Escalade. GMC is perfect just the way it is and I don't think it could ever be viewed as a formidable competitor to Land Rover or even Jeep.

Funny you should mention that, as I sit here and reminisce about my youthful days attending Denny's and Waffle House after parties/bars/strip clubs. And FWIW, I think IHOP is much better than Denny's and Waffle House. Their International Club is truly the cats meow.

Couldn't agree more! That's why the talk of phase out pisses me off so badly. Pontiac is *almost there* and GM could really reinvent the division with stuff they already have.

Heaven... It would completely redefine the segment IMO.

What's funny is that a lot of Hummer haters sure as hell loved the division a few years ago when gas was cheap and the H2 was bankrolling the rest of GM. I'm the same way in that the more people hate Hummer, the more I want one. I'm not sure if it's just because I thrive on confrontation or because I feel so insulted by people trying to tell me what to buy.

LOOK. Nobody's complaining, it was just a thought. I said I like the car a lot and that says quite a bit coming from a person who hated the G8 when it was first launched. I don't know what else you could ask for.

Oh yeah, it blows the Cobalt out of the water. Unless of course, we're speaking of a Cobalt SS turbo

xtube... lol

I wonder if this is why we keep hearing fluctuating G8 production numbers. If both cars are coming from the same line, wouldn't Holden be able to adjust for demand? Therefore if the Ute is hotter than the G8, technically they could increase Ute production and cut G8 production. Also, the fact that Holden will adopt the 6.2L as their base powerplant adds fuel to my speculation that we might see increases in power from the GXP in coming years. (Kind of like what happened with the GTO)

Stopped by the dealer, for the first time in a LONG time (Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac) to get my first good look at an Astra. I like the 3 door quite a bit, but I'm not floored by it like I thought I would be. The 5 door is just down right bland IMO. It seems that the americans can take Opel designs and put the "final touch" on the theme to make it look awesome. For example, both the Sky and the Outlook are MUCH more striking and impressive to look at and even the Aura radiates a certain elegance that the Astra only dreams of and the Vue looks better made and more substantial eventhough I'm not a huge fan of the design. This scares me, because along with it's inability to manage a paltry 3 divisions, to think that GME can somehow run Saturn as well as GMNA as a whole is ridiculous. I think Saturn is going to be in even bigger trouble when the new models get here because 1) They seem to lack refinement in details 2) They don't really have a cohesive theme that will appeal to americans and 3) If the prices go up, they'll be an even harder sell. I predict that Saturn might become the VW of General Motors in that it has huge aspirations only to fail in the long run. Maybe it's just because this Astra is a dated design already (It is a couple of years old, right?) but I would take a Mazda 3 and probably a VW over it any day of the week. Conclusion; the Astra is pretty nice, but not nice enough to be a homerun, especially given the price. Other notes: SATURN: I still think the Outlook probably ties for first as the sexiest Lambda in production (No small feat, since I really love all 3 and the Traverse) I have yet to see a Vue RL, dammit. PONTIAC: I've always liked the Solstice better than the Sky but as much as I hate to say it, the Sky is aging much better. The targa and facelift can't come soon enough. I've seen 2 Vibes so far and not been very happy with either, but today I got my first look at a Vibe GT and WOW, what a world of difference the bigger graphite gray wheels and more agressive bumpers make! I REALLY liked the GT a lot and I think it's perfect for what Pontiac needs to move some volume. Does it convey the image of the division well? The GT very well could... If it were marketed right. Is it a nice, affordable wagon that GM could capitalize on and help revive Pontiac with? ABSOLUTELY! Again, if it's actually marketed. I still haven't gotten a close up of the G6 GXP with body mods, I wish the dealer had one. Ditto the G8 (Which is the reason I came out in the first place) I also got my first really good look at a Torrent GXP as they seem to be rare. It looks nice, but not as nice as the Equinox Sport. The badging in the middle of the door looks horrible and, like the G6 GXP, this model isn't worthy of it's name. BUICK: The Lacrosse Super looks nice, for a touch up, the Enclave is amazing as always and unfortunately no Lucerne Supers were on the lot. GMC: The Sierra Denali is probably the sexiest truck I've seen in quite some time. CHEVROLET: No HHR panel or SS. (DAMMIT!) Interesting that the formerly known Cobalt SS is now designated the lame name of "sport" with an equally lame badge. Seriously GM, why not use RS or something with a bit of panache? The Malibu is freakin' sweet and this dealer only had 1. I think I'm seriously in love with the Equinox Sport. I could really see something like this as a daily driver to save my fleet of Camaros for the weekend, when I get out of school. CADILLAC: The CTS is a gorgeous car... And it pulls this off through proportion and design, unlike so many GM offerings of recent memory that use 'bling' or extra equipment or trim. The STS is completely outclassed and redundant now. And this got me to thinking about something: GM's idea that it does not need a mainstream V8 in it's Cadillac line for future cars. We keep hearing that "Our buyers are overwhelmingly choosing the V6." Well DUH?!?!?! That's what happens when 1) You sell *ALL* of your volume to NEW buyers in ONE segment, specifically the entry point to your division. The STS and CTS serve the same clientele and naturally people are going to pick the CTS because it is better in every way and guess what; 2) The CTS doesn't offer a V8. So how can you accurately gauge the future of your product line up on demand for basically one, relatively cheap by comparison, offering? The SRX doesn't count because it's basically a CTS wagon and shares the same fate as the STS. The DTS doesn't count because it sells to traditional Cadillac buyers. I certainly hope that GM isn't going to screw Cadillac up in the future, but it looks as if they will. We currently have the same scenario that we had circa 2000 when the division was revived. 2 VERY strong models carrying the entire franchise with the rest of the models in jeopardy. GM will milk the CTS dry by offering the V, a wagon and a coupe (Which is good as long as the product is good) and GM will continue to ride the successful Escalade as it appeals to a lot of people who don't give a rats ass about fuel prices. And the STS will be phased out, as it should be. But the DTS and ULS (If there is one) are now in limbo since certain operations are trying to kill the foundation for both cars. Not to mention, Alpha won't be on line until 2011 or so and as far as we know is being delayed daily and XLR plans are non existant. So GM is set to miss out big time on the market once again as the europeans cash in on the small luxury segment LONG before GM gets there and the more profitable/halo models are not established decreasing the appeal and momentum of Cadillac substantially. [/end ] P.S. Sorry about the crappy structure. Like a lot of my posts, I wrote this in pieces while I was doing other work.

DAMN!!! Beat me to it!

Yeah, our dealer here used to do the "$98 over invoice" pricing. The trick was that you got bottom dollar for your trade.

I agree 100%.... I would be on the other side of the fence if the 430hp Corvette was the top vette. But seriously, with the Z06 and ZR1 in the picture, why not have a 430-450hp G8 GXP? I hope it's just cost and mechanical stuff that keeps the HP to 400 (Maybe we'll see more as time goes on) and not CAFE or politics. For god's sake, the top vette is pushing 620hp and the top Cadillac is at 550hp. Is Pontiac such a hated step child that it has to be 150-220hp away to "not be a threat" with it's top offering? I like the G8 GXP a lot and I think it'll do VERY well, but a part of me still yearns for a 'no compromises' Pontiac flagship that truly embodies what the division stands for; unbeatable performance, intimidating and aggressive design wth approachable demographics. Maybe the GXP was limited to 402hp so as not to make the Camaro look stupid? EDIT: How 'bout a Solstice with 400hp?

I hope it has the updated nose as well.

Wow... Does GME even design cars anymore or do they just rip everything off from Mazda?