FUTURE_OF_GM

As was the plan... The plan from 2005 was that Chevrolet and Cadillac would 'carry' GM. The rest is icing on the cake. So you're saying that GMC, the number 2 selling division at GM, is a niche brand? You're saying that Pontiac, the number 2 selling CAR division at GM is a niche? You're saying that Buick, a brand with only 1 hot selling model and 3 models total is NOT a niche brand? You're saying that Saab doesn't have the SAVIOR that you said it had? Once again, the "facts" change as the news leaks out.

The ONLY reason people ask you about anything is because you parade around the fact that you work for GM. At C&G, we have had FAR better placed and more accurate "insiders" that got just as much ass kissing as you get. Some of us, like myself, would rather get reliable info though instead of a half-assed confirmation when actual GM higher ups leak ACTUAL news.

Which boils right back down to what UNCLE BOB said... GM will focus on the profitability of brands INSTEAD of closing them.

My point exactly... It's not rocket science... But at the same time, if done right, it will allow GM to weather the storm WITHOUT destroying any more divisions. On the back side of this "downslide" GM might be able to continue rebuilding the divisions.

He's brash because he can afford to take that risk and that means that in the grand scheme of things, his opinion isn't sh*t to GM management. He's a mid-level GM guy that enjoys screwing with C&G fans. Could Pontiac die? absolutley! And that would prove him right and reinforce his 'knowledge of the inside' But it's just the reality of the market and the situation GM is in. But just like half of the stuff he's told us here, it could just 'drop off of the radar and be forgotten about' because he only smears his "knowledge" in our faces, not his failure to predict the market/outcome of decisions.

I call bullsh*t. The rebadges are of volume products.. Minimal investment + volume = profit. GM wil restore the brand to profitability (which shouldn't be hard since it's still kicking the living $h! out of the ever-so-profitable (lol) Saturn "experience" saleswise) or essentially put it on the back burner and see what happens. If the brand sinks, then sure it will probably go but if it swims, they'll start pushing more money into the brand. It makes no logical sense for GM to just "starve" it's second best selling passenger car division when 1) that's what's selling now, 2) the division requires minimal investment and 3) The company is literally in a fight for it's life for share.

+1 There are MANY more performance niches that Pontiac could fit into. GM isn't even in the performance game in the 2 largest markets on the planet... (compact & midsize cars -- as nice as the Cobalt SS is, it still doesn't do sh*t sales and image-wise when compared to the big dogs.) If you want to use the "Chevy and Pontiac can't have competing performance cars" logic, then someone ought to let Cadillac know that Chevrolet is the ONLY performance division at GM, and likewise Saturn with their REDLINE badge.

The market is also saying "it's over for GM" as well. Do you use this same flawed logic when talking of the whole corporation?

3 reasons... 1) They had saturn to replace it. (Personally, I think this might've been a plan all along) 2) GM has ALWAYS maintained at least 6 core divisions. To maintain less than 6 would be to admit defeat. It's a HUGE psychological barrier. 3) Olds was an experiment. (Ironic, since they were always the experimental technology brand anyway) GM had enough share and thought that it would maintain enough share that the Olds phase out wouldn't affect the company. Had the transition gone smoothly, and GM maintained those buyers, you'd probably see at least 2 other brands suffer the same fate by now. But the Olds phase out was HORRIBLE. GM lost loyal buyers, ditched share, spent millions and pissed off dealers and is STILL is dire straights... What was the point? I hope GM has fabulous marketing up their sleeve... Because this plan could fail miserably. The 9-4X would be suited just as well as a Pontiac. That would give the buyer the choice of a volume 'performance' X-over or to step up to the premium SRX. But why? Isn't that Cadillac's job?!!?!?! Again... Better served as a Pontiac. Give it Denali's and the Hummer HX and GMC will be fine. Give Pontiac a G8 line (sedan and coupe/wagon/ST in whatever mix you want) Then give it a hot G6 sedan based on either an AWD version of Eps II, Alpha or Kappa. Leave the Solstice line on Kappa as the coupe counterpart. Leave the Vibe and give it a hot compact coupe and sedan (G4) from Delta II. It's not rocket science... G8 has PLENTY of room to sell now that the Zeta Buick and Chevrolet sedans are dead and the wagon and ST will pick up would be truck and SUV buyers. Zeta is done, development-wise and will require very little money to keep on the road UNTIL GM gets out of it's cash bind. Not to mention, it's essentially a Holden. G6 can move upmarket from Malibu and stay well below Buick (Since the Invicta will likely move upmarket) and will not compete with Aura. (Since Aura is a car for yuppies and the Pontiac would be more for Lancer owners and wannabe Audi owners) Eps II is done as well, Kappa II is in the works and Pontiac could easily jump on Alpha. Solstice could take the majority of Kappa in volume and body styles. Saturn could get bent or do limited volume. And Delta II is 1) finished and 2) would be a HUGE seller and pull volume if done right.

*FIXED I think the Z moniker fits better as the top of the line since the Z06 and ZR1 are so extreme. And the SS fits better with the turbo Cobalt and HHR SS.

That's REALLY sweet! But if Autoweek assertion that GM is stopping development of V8s is true, then count me out.

Umm... What? Do these idiots honestly think that there isn't/won't be a market for V8s???? I mean, sports and luxury cars aside, what about TRUCK buyers that need real trucks that tow REAL things? I certainly hope this is an error of some sort.

I guess my rebuttle was lost when the server got hit... Oh well, This guy is an idiot and this article is a crock of s**t 'nuff said (Because I don't have time to re-type my rant)

Yeah... I don't really care how accurate the article is. (You know my feelings on the media anyway) My goal was two-fold, to get a little positive news on GM and to give GM positive exposure.

http://autos.aol.com/article/green/_a/best...711132109990002

Lemme guess... The CTS will now be the top cadillac and everything else will be corporate FWD small car bull$h!? And all of this is a result of the OMGZZZZZ!!!!!! gas prices? Please... Cadillac owners couldn't care less about gas prices. I don't really see what ANY of this has to do with "survival" But I guess if you're a company that can't innovate (LIke GM seems to be now) it qualifies as 'sliding by'

So our 7 series replacement will ride on what, exactly? Epsilon? (In reality I'm guessing Sigma modified, right?)

:AH-HA_wink:

The comment wasn't directed at you. DUPLICATE: " 'nuff said."

Nice... BTW, I'd say it's safe to say (LOL, say that 3 times fast) that NO ONE knows whats going on inside GM at the moment.

Well, really... I mean, why do we need a super expensive Camaro anyway? Surely GM can find a better scenario for the Z/28 moniker. If people want a high priced Chevrolet show piece, they can buy a Z06 or ZR1.

I'm betting on middle managment cuts, a possible sell of Hummer (announcement) and the company announcing that it is looking to borrow money.

Potential growth... It will be much easier to grow Buick and Pontiac (instead of Saturn) because the brands have identity (Like it or not) in the market AND an established dealer network. Saturn is a clean slate, but does GM have the money, time, and more importantly, vision to grow the division into something. I'm guessing the answer is no. The market turning like it has can actually be considered a benefit to GM if they can play off fo it correctly. Just in the "shift to cars" alone, Pontiac is finding new buyers and new relevance. Imagine how powerful GM could be if both Pontiac and Chevrolet were pulling volume while Saturn was being built to pull volume for the future.

With the recent sales increases, I have a hard time believing that MOST of Pontiacs share is fleet. It's politics... Plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see both Pontiac and Saturn stay. But Hummer and especially Saab need to go.

You know, I'd like to see the share numbers for the niche Japanese brands to see if a phase out of those divisions could be 'justified' based on bias. (Like this article does for GM) And I find it funny that Toyota is whispering about starting a FOURTH division (The "Prius" division that has been mentioned in the media more than once in the last few years) amid all of this talk that "The imports can do it with only 2 divisions" That kinda defies logic, right? GM is 'having to downsize' while Toyota is appealing to more and more customers with a diverse offering of vehicle. I guess GM is happy with Toyota displacing them for everything they once were.