razoredge

I wonder if contractors involved in the clean up/rebuild bought new trucks from profit or expanded business ? My problem is when I think trucks, I think work trucks, not much gonna keep those guys from buying new trucks when the time comes and business is good. Gasoline is in the price.

Yes !!!!!!!!! that is the stuff ! I am so glad they did not follow the current trend of having a blunt nose. The Shark is back ! If they balk on this Im so outta here ! Camaro Mustang Challenger Charger The world is getting more colorful...as it should well be ! No more detuning..it is destroying GMs overall. C6, GTO, CTS V all have 400 HP LS2 so should the Camaro Z28 or SS or whatever, ZO6 has LS7, all is in order. Hows about at some point in time (soon) forgetting the 3.9 V6 (all V6's) and doing a LS 4.0 V8 for base models ? To the entire team that brought this together "hats off to you !" now get back to work

I already read that and I get the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing part. I really wasnt looking for a homework assignment, I thought maybe I could get your input about sales drops in the fall after the summer months of everyones sales. I guess apparently Im only worth one kind of effort from you ? I mean Im capable of both confrontation and neutral contribution.......oh well

shucks, I got right on this right away and then came back and see ya'll beat me to it :( First I was gonna say "36 mpg ! " :blink: "I gotta get me one of dem dar toyomongos" :lol: This is the kind of crap those of us that talk about the media are referring to, not that they are reporting but how they spin it, this will go down as gospel in the eyes of the public now "Toyomongo gets 36 mpg" and "GM's typically suck but this car is OK" Anyhow yes indeed 432,000 is very very impressive for one model, and there is probably a Lexus that could go in there ? but GM is a bit different and did sell 502,216 ancient W bodies, the only one I may have missed is a Saab but I dont follow them and have only heard mention here on C&G that somehow they were similar to Impala ? If Saab has a W it is not in the 502,000, Regal/Century/Monty were included as well as the obvious Lacrosse, Impala, GrandPrix. Not trying to take anything from Camry just adding some perspective. I certainly like GM's way better, I would find the world lacking some color if all we had was 502,000 Impalas........which would never happen....GM limb choppin beancounters so dont get any more bright ideas ! :rolleyes:

Im not getting your verdict from the statement or of the statement ? We all know this happened but what does it mean or how can it be interpreted ? Is it common for sales to decline this time of year ? GM is not the only company that had "blow out sales" over the summer. Couldnt this also mean much of the new car shopping/buying was done ? New models comming in Nov ?

:unsure: Me, dream world ? "Only in the Midwest do people flock to GM for no purpose other than ties and loyalty." "GM's cars aren't equal" "Califonia is one of the most normal" Cali and normal in the same sentence ? come on, even I know better than that Arnie...Clint.....Sonny......Ronnie " The investments in the mid-90's went to trucks." is that it ? "Cadillac on its own could do better than the GM corporation is doing now" "Buick barely sells more than Cadillac" Buick... 05 - 282,288.......04 309,639 Cadillac 05 - 235,002.......04 - 234,217 Saturn.. 05 - 213,657......04 212,017 while I understand profitability of high end vehicals there was some transition at Buick this year, with less models, new models, slack inventory and all, still 47,000 difference is 20 % and where is the Buick investment ? AND how large was the Caddy investment ? I have no beef with the Cadillac investment but lets not use that against Buick when it just sits there......comparitively speaking. 32% higher than saturin and wanna turn back the clock, year after year after year and once again Ill ask "where the Buick investment?" now before you go off on your profitability and fleet and other problems we all know exist wasnt there recently much stir about accounting putting a spin on things at GM. Knowing the investments at Caddy vs the investments at Buick I have to do a bit of nay saying on that one. Is a Buick plant or two one of the over staffed areas ? Hmm ? All these #'s GM's been throwing out dont really pass the sniff test do they ? I mean really..do they ? " because of thier perception that GM will always be inferior, for whatever reason they may have acquired this perception" This describes your outlook very well...doesnt it ? Case after case, proof after proof and not one of us here can sway you in the slightest to ease up off our backs, so once again I will say whats the use, might as well throw in the towel. We have proven with cars we drive that we drive reliable cars, comfortable cars, or fast cars from all of the "horrible decades of awful product" and we recieve no peace. Just continous bombardment that our cars suck and should die. It all seems so pointless :(

They turned the light off at Buick 10 years ago and thats the only light in which you see Buick. There are plenty of younger people that like Buick, no majority but people that can see past cliques. Buick was so much responsible for the good cars and the good attributes of the better platforms and powertrains that were above the typical opinion of what "all" GM cars were, but do you know this ? Caddy was on its way down the tubes from some poorly designed troublesome engines and who knows what other reasons. Chevy was dying in passenger cars until they recieved the better BOP platforms and Buick based engines, but does anyone know this ? No they just run around "oh yea, Buick, we heard of them, they suck, at least thats what we heard, from my big bro and his bros" Im sure you will campaigne your hardest for the death of Buick for some unknown reasons but Ill go the other direction because I saw clearly before and since the lights were shut off. :rolleyes:

So on one hand you say the public is so educated or informed as to what value or refinement is in a car and on the other hand you say they do not know that saturin is a GM product ? maybe back in 90-95 or so but thats all over now. Being a Buick and Oldsmobile owner that would never never stoop so low as to drive a saturin I just dont see the no bad image thing. saturin has a image for the cheeziest designs, styling and wobble panels, cheep ugly cars with a pathatic name. and they still dont sell I sure hope GM can turn a bunch of Japanese drivers because they are not going to turn me into a saturin Buick does have a positive image and it is not the one that some people growing up in the 90's & 00's painted on it through ignorance and hatred of everything "old" Buick has had so much potential, just sitting there but not utilized in over a decade. Much of which had to do with castration from management so other divisions would not have their toes stepped on. Yet today we have saturin taking a free ride on the gravy train that they never contributed to.

They cant legalize the stuff, that would be making the statement that it is OK to be messed up. Alcohol, tobacco, gambling-including lottery should all be illegal. and while collar crimes should be punishable by public executions on Sunday afternoons whether you inhaled or not !

yea, your forgetting that saturin is pathatic, always has been, just look at those sales figures their nowhere from where they were 4 & 5 years ago when they killed Olds. saturin is a real problem, Id like to see the tally on how much has been spent on that folly.

We've been hearing that for years now but yet saturin sold no more cars in the past few years than it did in 99 & 2000. Im not sure who it is that has head implanted in the wrong place but its not me. Theres a generation now that finds it popular to hate Buick but thats what it is popular, its not informed, its just "oh yea, they suck". Buick is not where they belong, I look back and cant figure out how all this happened. If just like they got castrated and put out to pasture........for no apparent reason. Still they out sell Cadillac and saturin. Im really not sure whom has head implanted in wrong place.

I only drive unrefined, unreliable, GM's so what would I know.

I dont ever remember seeing a single Oldsmobile commercial for the Intrigue or Aurora ever. There was quite a few Intrigues on the road around here but people really seem to like Pontiacs more, is it the styling ? Was it the priceing ? I have to work at it to like the styling of the front of a Pontiac.

I dont have the answer myself but I do know that our areas one huge dealership sent them all back to GM. I think it was part of franchise buy out ? This dealership had all Oldsmobiles way in the back and just stopped selling them. They had 4 final Auroras a few standard Auroras and something less than ten Aleros sitting in the back of a 5 acre lot ????? NOT FOR SALE. I read reports from others that tried to buy 03 Auroras that were "not for sale"

General Motors Corp. WARD'S AUTO WORLD STAFF Ward's Auto World, Jan 1, 2000 3.5L Twin Cam V-6 It seemed like we'd been hearing about the "Shortstar" forever. Rumors about General Motors Corp.'s modular DOHC V-6 derived from the famous Northstar 4.6L and Aurora 4L "Premium V" V-8s had powertrain watchers salivating at the prospect. Last year's launch of the Shortstar - officially dubbed 3.5L Twin Cam - didn't disappoint. It instantly earned a position as one of Ward's 10 Best Engines for 1999, in its first year of eligibility. The 3.5L Twin Cam V-6 stands above the mass of 3L V-6s in the market largely by virtue of another half-liter of displacement. GM engineers eschewed the now-common add-on gadgets like variable valve timing in favor of good old cubic inches - and with those cubes comes the virtue of long stroke. Extending the range of the pistons in their bores produces fabulous torque, particularly in the middle-rpm ranges, making the 3.5L Twin Cam a most satisfying implement for squirting through city traffic and breaking out to beat that next ill-timed traffic light. More stimulating, though, is the 3.5L Twin Cam's punch on the freeways and interstates. It lopes along at 75 mph (121 km/h), just below its real light-off rpm; further throttle provocation then summons a torque burst of profound influence - our 3.5L Twin Cam-motivated '01 Aurora test car displayed 75 mph-to-95 mph acceleration of heroic stature. And sustaining triple-digit speeds was the proverbial "walk in the park." Yes. That long stroke yields the sensation of power reserves deeper than those of even the best 3L V-6s. It's a feeling of a uniquely "American" engine - the reassurance of generous displacement. But there's also the unbreakable feel so prevalent in the Northstar and Aurora V-8s. The 3.5L Twin Cam exudes the sounds of fine inner workings, of tight tolerances and components dense where they need to be and finely optimized where they don't. The torque is intoxicating, but it's the typical GM fascination with detail refinement that delights. The company's engineers pursued friction reduction with religious zeal. They specified practically everything you would if you were designing your own V-6: powder metal connecting rods, a forged crank, roller-finger cam followers. A chain cam drive that never needs adjustment or replacement. And the amazing and now-legendary "limp home" feature that allows this all-aluminum engine to operate without any coolant without fear of meltdown. In short, the 3.5L Twin Cam has been developed to the high standard we know GM Powertrain sets when it gets serious about an all-new anything. It doubtless is not a cheap engine - in fact, to watch one built component-by-component, it looks positively lavish - yet now comes standard in the modestly priced Intrigue and will be the base engine for the '01 Aurora starting this spring. Probably nowhere else can you buy so much engine excellence at such reasonable cost.

I normally wouldnt do a high five or jump in to back up someone as so many here do with the tag teaming but I gotta say :metal: SIXTY8, that had to have felt good, I know it worked for me, thats my anti drug for the night :lol: As a responce to the topic or what Josh said. The 60's & 70's had alot of stuff going on and it was not so frowned upon at that time just like tobacco or alcohol for that matter. We didnt know about ADS or depression and the only crack that killed was the view of the plumbers. Today there is more awareness of the end results so many kids are doing better then my generation, or at least I presume. My daughter nearly 17 is so straight it scares me, Im afraid she will get in trouble down the road for not knowing to keep her mouth shut, or go off the deep end if she does givein, in college or any time later. We saw that. Kids that were straight in HS and frowned on us came back from college, dumber than dumb, we got over our partying and they were coke heads and alcoholics, of course there were those of us that never wanted the party to end too and were well into their late 20's still going to the bar 2-3-4 times a week and sending half their paychecks up their nose. Im glad to hear that so many of you younger folks know better and focus elsewhere. I have seen so many of my generation, especially some great girls screwed up from the "party". The guys that went to far were pretty much worthless in the first place and they drug some damn fine girls down the tube with them. Just another view from the trenches

Also please note and we all seem to forget to mention loss of Park Avenue sales 15,000- there. Notice Buick still outsells Cadillac and ............arg ! saturin yet no love for Buick :angry: Interesting that Auroras were still sold (18) ? I figured they were cleaned out last year. I wonder what the selling price was ? I can't believe how low Bonneville numbers were GP sells excellent W body sales alone smoke saturin GA & G6 combined beat previous GA only Cobalt outsold previous Cavalier there is hope

Those ZX's are some nice looking little cars but I smell a money pit. Already had the engine changed at 100,000 miles ? Probably drove hard or weak to begin with ? Id be worried about that, so Id do some research on the drivetrain. Tuff call, both look good and perform well. Thing is you said you dont want to spend later. Thats the key right there, Id spend some time looking and not jump to soon. Whats the typical durability of the 5.7 ? Thats at 98,000. Of course that wont break the budget if it acts up. Isnt 5500 kinda high for these cars or is that because they are performance models ? offer 2500 to each of them and get both.

Looks like a perfect size town. I like that turn of the century drawing, it shows how they cleared everything back then. I wonder if it was origionally settled and RR as a logging town like most were, then other resources came latter. You said there has been mineing right ? Coal ? We went out to Butler twice about 7-8 years ago. Two of our dogs came from a breeder in Butler. In fact the males name is Lucan Butler (Luc) aka (big doppy dog) (killin machine) :P. Anyhow we must have flown right past Brookville 3 times, the one time I went up around 79 to 90, bla, very boreing route. 88, 81 & 80 is nicer. I liked the area along 68 and thats like your back yard. Down into that town with the Allegheny River...... ? Theres one town that is right on a long hill and there is a sign for trucks....no engine brakes, or no jake brakes.

Boy oh boy, those old, new and in between GM's sure have been unreliable :rolleyes:

adreneline did it for years, now I just do drugs :P but I never inhale nor do I have sexual relations.

Old before 1970 ? Them 70's babys are tenderoni, lol ! You can PM me.

In my opinion or interpretation anyhow

Ahh, I dont agree with him but I know what he meant. Even though gas is really 2.5o a gallon here and that is too much for us commoners, he is commenting on how a huge portion of the population just doesnt give a damn. See Dodge Hemi. LS2, Hummer, Trucks and everyones huge emphasiis on HP and how fast we can get to 60mph or down a quarter. I think that is what he is talking about. "in its own way, as irrational and emotional and economically unsound as the horsepower race." which is true, I used to hunt far and wide for deals on Japanese trucks to get an extra 1o miles to a gallon, but I was paying 1000 more for the truck than I would have a Chevy, it was not really really rational. My best friends father started driving Land Yahts back in the 70's when gas went through the roof. I asked him why ? He said, "no body wants these cars, I buy them for $1000 dollars and look at them they have everything, fully loaded, power, excellent condition, it would take me two years worth of gas to make up the difference I would spend on the high demand economy box's and Im riddin in style" Dont get me wrong I am pushing for lower weight cars with less gimmicks and more substance from smaller engines, Im about the only one on this board that has mentioned anything about it. Everyone else wants more cubes, more gears, more toys, more safety, this is what Lutz is talking about.

I dont remember those first three, who was the other Oldsmobile guy ? Used the Intrigue 442 in his sig. ? I think he was fading out when I first came around. I miss Regency for his activity in the Olds forum and a steady dayly supply of industry news. I miss Plums concepts I really really miss positive General Motors outlook I....I......I....think Im gonna start cryin. .. .. .. .. OK, got that over with.