Drew Dowdell

And ES350/TL/RL drivers who want to go up in class but don't want RWD (yes, they are out there) In China this could sell with an Ecotec 2.4 and still do well because the chauffeured care more about fuel economy than speed. This is the key point. I don't see the XTS as a big seller, even if it doubles the DTS, it is 2,000 cars a month. And if they fleet a lot of them off, what is the profit margin on those? GM for years had tons of sales volume and lost money because of legacy costs, massive rebates, fleets, etc. Brand positioning and profitability should be the focus. (Edit: and I know I said 3k a month earlier, but that is a high side and given lots of marketing during year one and a lot of fleet/livery sales. We've seen GM cars do well out of the gate then fall off before) So are you going to take my bet or no?

So I guess I don't follow. Cadillac selling a vehicle in a segment at the same price as its rivals and coming in a comfortable 3rd place in sales after being at the bottom in sales for years isn't a success how? Just because it isn't a badge engineered E-class? Is that really what its going to take to satisfy you? Just scratch off the 3-point star, paste on a wreath and call it a day? Isn't 3k units a month proof that a segment for this car would exist out there? Is the $45k dollar those buyers pay less green? I'm not against a RWD flagship at all. But I think the XTS has its place as well. If Cadillac can make money from it without damaging the brand.... why not? We've already seen what GM can do with a FWD platform in the old Cobalt. The Lacrosse is already one of the better handling FWD sedans out there..... I don't have the fears of the XTS that some of you do. I also am realistic in that getting a new car on the market is more involved than "downloading an app"... and I haven't forgotten that nearly everything got shelved 2 years ago while GM went through bankruptcy.

Ok. Fine. The A6 then. The ZTS is coming to slot above the XTS. Regarding the ZTS: fair enough. The Ciel is a good start. But regarding the A6 comparison...I'm not buying it. I don't see the XTS as a real competitor to the A6--and it doesn't look like GM is that confident it'll compete in that segment either. You don't think the XTS will outsell the A6?

Ok. Fine. The A6 then. The ZTS is coming to slot above the XTS.

So MKS sells half what the Continental did. Chrysler killed the FWD big sedans and went to RWD. LeSabre in 2000 sold 148,000 units. Park Avenue 48,000 Deville sold 105,000 Seville/Eldorado/Aurora combined for 71,000 Bonneville 66,000 Together that is 438,000 large FWD cars of about 200 inches in length. In 2011, the LaCrosse, Lucerne and DTS have combined for 74,000 sales, on pace for 98,600 for the full year. 438,000 cars to 98,000 cars in 11 years. Full size FWD luxury or near luxury is dying. Cadillac should be putting every dollar into rear wheel drive, a new V8, a new transmission, and fuel saving measures. And Avalon, ES, and RL, and S60 and S80, and MKS, and Taurus.....you forgot those numbers.

It is still a cheaper car, and the A8 is a sales dog. Compare retail XTS sales vs retail E-class or 5-series, at least they are at the same price point. It wouldn't surprise me if the XTS sells 3,000 cars a month, especially while new with a lot of marketing and picking up lost Town Car sales in the livery market. There is still a segment of older buyers that like a big, soft Cadillac, but I see this car at the end of its life cycle back down around 1000 cars a month like the DTS and MKS are at now. And probably another one and done GM car like the Cobalt, Lucerne, most Saturns, etc. So you admit that the XTS will easily come in 3rd place in sales behind the 5-series and E-Class with little effort by Cadillac, thereby outselling RWD mavens like the Genesis, M35/45, GS350/450, and Jaguar XF. While also soundly trouncing the A6 AND A8 combined, the MKS, the RL, the S60, and the S80. and in a market segment that Cadillac was under performing in for the past few years no less. Your argument that the platform it is based on will kill the car doesn't hold water since it would end up outselling at least 4 RWD cars.

There will be some downtime tonight. Don't Panic! Edit: and there is a very good chance I'm going to break the front page tonight. Continue to not panic.

Rumor: $56k

The XTS will because it will cost less. If the XTS was $75,000 base price I think it may be a different story. Plus the XTS will have fleet and livery sales. So yes the XTS will have volume, but how profitable is a car like that, compared to a high end RWD car that can command a price premium. I'm even willing to give you a 200% handicap for the price difference and subtract fleet sales from the XTS numbers. Basically for me to win, the XTS has to sell triple the A8 at retail. Three retail XTS for every one A8 sold. To make it interesting, I'll even put it up against the 7 series with a 100% handicap. Two retail XTS for every one 7-series sold.

Want to make a little wager on which will sell better in the U.S., the XTS or the A8?

I like the S and the Executive (the wood was great)

True but Cadillac has been rebuilding since 2002, it has been almost 10 years. And the XTS isn't the type of car that helps rebuild greatness. It maintains mediocrity. Just like the A8 right?

They are three mediocre RWD cars that get plastered by the media any time someone tries to hustle one through a bunch of cones. All three combined were outsold by the SRX just by itself last month. The CTS alone ALSO outsold all three Hyundai RWD vehicles (the bulk of which are the $26k coupe). Even the Buick Enclave outsold all three Hyundai RWD vehicles. To add insult to injury, despite both being out of production for months, the DTS is STILL selling more than double the Equus and as of October 1, the STS and Equus YTD sales are roughly identical.

and why not? It's profitable for them, It isn't hurting their image in the target market (in fact the image has greatly improved on this model), and it is selling waaaay better than the German competition at the same price point. The GLK and X3 are within an inch in either direction of the SRX on interior dimensions. Yes the SRX is longer externally, but people don't generally worry about that unless they are shopping in the Suburban class. The point is. Making the SRX rwd would have added no value to the target market and increased the costs for Cadillac (Sigma is more expensive than T-E).

The X3 has never been a sales stunner. The target for the SRX really, though, is the FWD based premium CUVs---the RX, MDX, and MKX. The "target" doesn't know or care if it is FWD or RWD since they buy them in AWD over 50% of the time. Once it gets into AWD format, perceptions of "betterer" in either direction vanish for 98% of the driving public. F the 98%. Luxury cars are supposed to be premium, not your everyday generic FWD sh*tbox that Toyota, Hyundai, etc peddle... Cadillac needs to make the money.

73ish Mark series coupe on the morning commute.

I didn't think they ever sold the X-Type estate here!?

The target for the SRX really, though, is the FWD based premium CUVs---the RX, MDX, and MKX. The "target" doesn't know or care if it is FWD or RWD since they buy them in AWD over 50% of the time. Once it gets into AWD format, perceptions of "betterer" in either direction vanish for 98% of the driving public.

I am shipping to those who paid as soon as I receive them. They haven't been shipped to me yet.

Well, it IS the Cadillac of minivans. Knock it all you want, but it is selling at the same price point as its German rivals AND at higher volume.

"The Market" has spoken and dubbed the FWD based SRX to be better than the RWD based X3 and GLK.

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Wait! I think I forgot something..... oh yeah.. .now I remember.

more wagons = more gooder

cause spreading your branding thinner over the same number of cars is a good thing.....