caddycruiser

See, it still baffles me why SO many people, especially of the "GM crowd" aren't getting it. Though I completely think that it should have been a Malibu of the same year and NOT a Cutlass (that's just...odd...), the POINT is to fully acknowledge that, with cars like that, they've been ignored again and again and again. And, even more so, a LOT of people who had either bad experiences or just scoffed at things like the 2 last gens of Malibus, now still have it ingrained in them that "that's what a Malibu is" and can't accept anything else. GM admits it, publicizes it, and says "THIS" is different, and not what everyone is stuck on thinking it "WAS". It makes a great point, and it's nice to see this kind of advertising from GM. Don't get stuck on what they did in the past, specifically pointing to people who have proceeded to buy imports, etc. just "because" of that one dowdy, cheap car they see when they hear that certain name, and never actually realize what the current product is. They need more thorough, clearer ads as well, that push a similar point, in coming time, that make it glaringly obvious, with more speaking, etc. Acknowledging a past foible that some people have never gotten over is more effective than just putting something new and different out and expecting people to naturally "come over".

That's an interesting point, at least with some vehicles. There are different maintenance items that a lot of people may not even think of, but crop up. Kind of like all the Saturn Vue's that are around with the Honda 3.5L. Everyone always remarks how fantastic of a powertrain it is in the Vue, but if they're GM die-hards, there are small things like the timing belt, etc. differences that need to be noticed & remembered. I think it's just a weird coincidence that 2 were seen by Satty on fire/smoking, and not traced to a certain problem--I stay up to date with common problems of a lot of vehicles, and have never heard a thing about this. But, you never know.

See, that's the thing. The first sales were actually in late April, and continue to just a rapid pace, but you won't yet see one on every street corner. Think of something like the 300C, Beetle, etc. Insanely hot sales for quite a while, but it still takes some time for enough of them to get spread around that you'll see one daily. Locally, at home, I've seen a total of 3 on the road, 2 from out of state, and the same for when I'm in PA mostly. Give them another year of sales, and you'll really see them out there, in addition to the already prevalent--mostly--Acadia, for instance.

The key issue, with the Sonata specifically, is they just fell into the trap of having it 90-95% "great" as of the last redesign and then just going nuts with production...more, more, more, essentially. So, it still sells, but there's been so many new entries in the year or two since it's been out, that it can't help but fall back a bit and sadly become really much so the packed lots--big rebates mid-size star. The refreshed version, with new interior, etc. is out for next year, but until then, and still with so many other choices, sales aren't going to be brisk for sure. Still, a great appliance car like so many, with proof such as the flawless 40k+ beating C&D put one through over a year, and actually a big fan base...but there's only so many sedan buyers, and with so many choices, you HAVE to offer them something truly unique to make a difference. So, it's just a minor growing pain for Hyundai at the moment, a company who I still think is and can continue to do great things, just cautiously still.

Dead on, and I completely agree, especially with the Rendezvous. Of course, my grandparents themselves took advantage of a great deal on a used '03 Rendezvous, always having wanted one...but the vast majority right now are going from their old & young first owners into the second hands of families and such on a budget who will continue to enjoy them. And, from this point, there already are and hopefully will continue to be a lot of continued sales going through the Enclave, and whatever other similarly impressive sedan(s) they will have before long.

EXACTLY. The Rendezvous was first to start attracting a lot of younger buyers, and did, but also in the lifespan, attracted quite a few of the typical older buyers as well. With the Enclave, it seems like the people who WANT one and are buying the most are anywhere from their late 20's to 40's. A lot of these are also the same people trading in their Pilots (I've read SO many of those stories now...), MDX's, RX's, etc., because they're drawn in by the styling then astounded at the performance and versatility, that beats every other crossover available, all for a great price.

Being someone who went recently shopping for one, only to REALLY be relieved to find a dealer that actually had one to see and drive...this is all very true. The local dealer that we last bought from & have all service done at gets about 2 a month (not sure why they're so limited on what they get, given their large size), and each one is always gone within a day. Same story for most other dealers, aside from inventory/supply differences. And having been on an Enclave owner's forum for some time now, the bulk of Enclaves are special ordered simply because there are none on the lots to begin with, and that's how most are relying on getting just the right one--with it taking anywhere from 6 weeks if you're REALLY lucky, to months in wait. Things seem to finally be evening out and picking up pace as far as this order time, lately, however though, based on what people are reporting. The Acadia & Outlook are also doing very well, but not to the level of the Buick, for sure. Those two sell quickly but you can find a selection to see & drive...the Buick is almost impossible to find, in most places. NOW, just continue to keep it fresh with little details here and there...and get the rest of the lineup on such a hot level. I think they can do it, the problem is, a sedan will never have the natural "draw" a large crossover does, in the US market.

Sounds great and I'm VERY glad to see the kind of real-world mileage numbers you're reporting, from a broken in unit. That seems fairly typical, despite a few getting worse, and is a great improvement for sure. My mother seems to hover right around 14.5'ish in her daily drive to work and back (about 2 miles each way), and highway is about 18-19'sh in the Suburban. Has a load of power, though, so it's never been a huge complaint. The improved numbers of a Lambda should help more sell my father, though... And YES, the seating/whole rear cargo/people area space difference is the big kicker in the Lambdas vs. the cramped and inconvenient Tahoe/Yukon. Their seats are higher and seem a bit larger, but the BOF with live axle & its bounce room really kill things.

OLD news... But, at the same time, it's pretty clear in reasoning. They can't tow something that large & heavy with a 1/2-ton truck, so, out goes a Toyota. And even regardless, it's not Toyota directly dealing with those trailers and such, but whoever is in charge or the sponsor. They use big International, etc. trucks to tow big trailers with Chevy & Ford products...so it's the same idea. Just happened to be a funny seen, moreso when someone took a pic and it got posted. But, again, OLD...

I really like the look of the outside--with GREAT proportions, actually--and I like the overall styling of the interior. BUT, it's details of things in that interior that mess with it. 1) This car and the Aura suffer from some of the worst center stack syndrome in GM vehicles ever. For whatever random reason, they're 2 cars that seem like NO ONE could possibly come up with a proper way to integrate the radio and HVAC...with just too many cut lines, and panels around that look like fillers put there as an afterthought. 2) Overall, very solid and not "cheap" plastics, but at the same time, especially in colors such as the gray, nothing that comes off as even moderately rich. Even from pictures, you can tell the door panels seem barren, which has been a long-time criticism of the Aura, and still not figured out. So, I still REALLY like the car, and think it's great how good even a lower LS model like pictured here looks outside with the great lines and wheels...but with still such obvious interior flubs, like the mess of a center stack and the overall "not great" aura put off by a lot of it, it really makes you wonder. Is there a syndrome, at GM, that just prevents Epsilon cars from ever going past 80-85% in the interior finale?

Dear God people...I know it's a dumb story, but try and check the facts. Just like SO many things she says, it gets completely taken out of context and turned 3 ways to Sunday--something she always acknowledges. What was said was a JOKE, based on so many of the rumors that all the evening national news people seemed to like making up day after day after day. Yet, when trash MSNBC or CNN hear it, they pounce, spin it around, and say "See! We told you!"...yeah, but did you ever, maybe, want to take into context where and when something was said...like at a comedy show, for instance? Don't take this as a huge Rosie siding...I'm just getting so sick and tired of big news being no more than trash, making stories up out of things that NEVER were or were meant in a different context, and refusing to cover what's important. Same deal with CNN and the whole "Bill O'Reilly is a racist" thing...all based on only playing a minute of a 35 minute conversation...just because that part SOUNDED like a great story starter. Fox does it too...but at this point, they're the only ones I can bear to watch and get something worthwhile from, even if just briefly. But otherwise, people, don't be so stupid to play into these 3rd grade stories...it's just dumb. Okay, rant done...until someone brings up another CNN/MSNBC/etc. "news splash". As everyone else has said...a waste of time, and let's move on to real things...or at least good jokes!

^^It's not now...then again, I never noticed it was in the first place, if even.

Great review, and sounds EXACTLY like mine--of all 3 Lambdas--and is the big reason why we're now going to replace our '04 Suburban with a new Enclave, hopefully this century Actually, started out on my part thinking the Outlook would be the best fit, and drove one (I had already driven an Acadia and another Outlook), and enjoyed it...then drove an Enclave. First minute, the thoughts of the GMC & Saturn were over, and it was clear the Buick was far and away in a different class--same platform, designs, and all, but the Buick is SO different. That said...in response to things you brought up: 1) Yes, they are quite quick in FWD form, and seem much more lively (and VERY refined) than some reviews would suggest--the 3.6L cammer engine is a big sweety, and just does marvelously in anything its put in. One BIG factor with the Lambdas seems to be if they have the latest transmission programming or not--very early ones seemed to lag, then there was a fix, followed by another to improve the responsiveness of shifts owners thought were way too lazy...and then in the past month, there was a final release (well, until another is refined and supplied by GM) that most owners are reporting is a great improvement, and the best of all. 2) The steering groan--that very likely was what it was. Being in several Lambda owner's forums, it seems like a LOT of 2007 model owners have experienced groans or other weird sounds, in addition to just finding ps fluid puddles, all traced back to a bad steering pump. Not every 2007, but seems like a pretty big chunk...without hearing much about the same for 2008's as of yet. The combination of how beautifully the Lambdas drive, how large they are, the 3.6L engine, the pricetag & features, etc. are why one is now in the cards for us, definitively. Are on our 2nd full-size GM ute, and for a while there, talk was that the momma loved the new '07s the most of all and wanted a new one, but a Tahoe/Yukon to downsize a bit, for her next vehicle. Still likes them, but already hates lugging around the 3rd seat as it is now and refused to ever deal with such an archaic design again, when she uses the function of removing/folding it so much; as always, still ghasps at the $40k+ pricetag of the full-size utes, when equipped just lightly; and had been told by my father (who pays for her gas) "yeah...no more gas guzzlers"--the Suburban is actually not bad here, but still, for a daily driver, is a bit over the top and not economical. Also, since I know you have an '07 Tahoe, another interesting factoid--when I drove the first Acadia, a $31k FWD model with cloth, I also drove a $50k Yukon SLT 4wd back to back with it. LOVED the Acadia and was just stunned at the cargo/people space and features, and how it just soared down the road with aplomb--with a pricetag under what so many sedans are. Then out with the Yukon, and while I liked the higher and slightly larger seats a bit more because that's what I'm used to, I just wasn't THAT impressed for $50k. All the same great ride, handling, and quietness I've become used to with our '04, but MUCH more solid and even quieter...still, for the pricetag, couldn't hold a candle to the Acadia in driving dynamics & value. But, one is a real truck, and the other not, so there are clear differences that still give each a specific purpose, and I accept that. Just couldn't stomach writing the check for a Tahoe/Yukon, given my uses, in comparison to a Lambda--but still enjoy all.

Car aside, the SAD part is, people actually still "talk" like that...and it continues to happen, no matter what. Sort of like learning English, and deciding to change around all of the basic phrases and words to your own very stupid sounding ghetto-garb speak. Hopefully they find someone else that also speaks that "language" to buy the car...shouldn't be too hard. You know, the market for Hyundais with cloth tops is very active, in that group.

Yep, these have been out for a month or so now. Main changes were, like you said, the front fascias and some new rear touches, as well as new wheels, the 6-speed automatic (replacing the 5-speed it had before), and some small touch-ups, again, inside--the latter being very, very minor.

Oh God...hah!

Yeah, I'd agree with that. A little confused by this thread...but maybe it'll be clearer soon. I think we're missing one key detail, somewhere.

SOO...was there a response on your part, or not, besides a look

Yep, at the end. The majority of this video, though, is a very cool look behind the scenes a bit with Ed. Met him in person this February, and he's just a very cool guy :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah, that definitely counts, especially since it's now been repeated 3 (if not more) times, and it STILL happens. Plus, it's not like a weird noise, but rather it's...DEAD. So yes, that counts. Oddly enough, and unrelated, but I saw our neighbor's '99 Grand Cherokee have to be roll-backed out of their garage TWICE, for no apparent reason other than it was just dead. Still, kept it, and about a year later, brought home a new '04 GC, which she still enjoys and hasn't apparently been problematic. I never did ask what the problem was when the old one would be fine one day, then dead and stuck in the garage the next.

Cool, except the text is hard to read in black, and should be white, with maybe a better font choice. Then it'd REALLY be great.

Berwyn, PA...WOW...right in my back yard I'll have to try and spread the word too--is the car located somewhere else, or is this where you're at too?

I want one, now. Love the current car, 3.6L and all, but team the car up with a very Euro-like diesel in performance and efficiency, and I'm ready to sign. SO glad to see it's real, too, and not just a rumor.

BIG part...the frame has the structural strength and rigidity of a wet piece of spaghetti. Still, I don't have a clue who thought it was a great idea to go against common standard of the industry and step DOWN in overall strength and durability, with a C-channel that itself is even worse than others, and not even a close relative to a typical modern hydroformed box frame. Saves weight, but that's about it. I can only imagine how great the Toyota would REALLY be if the body didn't have to fight against the awful, constantly flexing frame underneath as it goes down the road...and it was teamed up with a modern boxed & hydroformed setup like everyone else. Just from my engineering perspective, that is one choice that has and will not only cause problems and hurt driveability and capacity, but was just stupid. THESE videos are ones I saw this summer, and REALLY clear it up:

Me: 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Dad: 1992 Buick Roadmaster Limited, 1993 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Mom: 2004 Chevy Suburban 1500 LS 2wd (which, at the moment, has had its replacement chosen as a new Buick Enclave...but we'll see if that actually happens before years) Brother: 1986 Buick Regal Limited Then... Grandfather: 2003 Buick Rendezvous (bought from his neighbor this year, after wanting one for years) Grandmother: 1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue Otherwise, no other immediate family drives a GM. My father's brother has a Chrysler PT Cruiser and a Suzuki Vitara, his sister has a Jeep Wrangler, and then on my mother's side, both of her brothers are HUGE Ford people (one used to be a Ford service tech, and the other just a Ford guy), with one having an Explorer and a Ranger, and the other with a Focus and F-150.