29 replies to this topic

[loki]

http://www.fudzilla....lose-to-core-i7

We have some good news for everyone who would like to see AMD make a big comeback in style.

Since the time when Athlon used to be a high-end brand, and by that we mean the good old K8 core, it's been a while since AMD had a high end part capable of competing with Intel on a par.

However, initial test scores that slipped to a hands of industry source are suggesting that Bulldozer should come really close to new Core i7 six-core CPUs. Bulldozer has both six and eight cores in the pipeline and they should be launching before the end of Q2 2011, at least that is the current schedule.

The performance of Bulldozer should come really close to Core i7, but we don't know if this might be enough to take Intel's high end market dominance. Samples of Bulldozer are out for a while now and the full production should start as soon as this quarter.

Sources are suggesting that and yields should be quite good and that the chip is doing just fine in 32nm. One thing is certain, even if Core i7 remains faster, Bulldozer X8 and X6 parts should end up way cheaper. It looks like AMD will finally give Intel a run for its money.

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duh on the last part, that why amd is as much a part of the market as it is.

[FAPTurbo]

Those six-core CPU's aren't that new. In fact, Intel's 'Sandy Bridge' line can catch up to the Gulftown in many tasks, at almost a third of the cost. Remember too, that the new P67 platform is only a mid-range product; if AMD's Bulldozer can only perform on par with an older X58 CPU, and those from its new mid-range, then Intel will likely still remain the high-end player.

What makes me a bit worried is that there have been no real preliminary 'public' benchmarks yet. Often, AMD is quite content to show off their wares when they have something advantageous in the pipeline, like Magny-Cours. Given that Bulldozer is supposed to be ready for Q2, there should be some benchmark or indication of performance by now, usually on some Chinese website that doesn't care about NDA's.

And then, AMD's CEO has just been forced out. That adds even more concern. At least he didn't bail on his own accord, rats leaving the ship and all.

[loki]

I agree, but it is good news because AMD's trend has been to beable to do Intel's previous chips competition in their newest lines. phenom < core < Phenom 2 < I5/i7 = or < Bulldozer < new I series...generally.

[@dmin]

AMD can't beat Intel. Especially in high-end enthusiast cpu's. Intel has enough capital to mess around with consumer cpu's. They need to worry about bread and butter stuff like Enterprise servers. They need low power multi core powerful systems that can match Intel's performance and do it for less cost and less energy. If companies start spending money on IT this year if we are out of the recession then AMD needs to its options out there with Dell HP Sun IBM and others. That will save them and then give them capital to make top tier cpus for the public later on. It needs to become profitable first. To many fanboys have put there hopes in Bully. Intel is most likely pushing out new cpus and chipsets and sockets as often as they can to hurt AMD. Think of it as USSR vs US in the arms Race. Us(intel) could drive USSR(amd) bankrupt because they keep wasting money playing catch up. The need Dell, HP, Acer, etc. to start using there chips in laptops and desktops. the DIY market won't save them.

[loki]

but Intel can't "kill" AMD, they use different tactics. every other year intel changes platforms, AMD has only updated it's original from back in, ...2005-6? am2 to am2+ to am3, next is am3+... at some point amd will have to realy revamp, because Fusion isn't going to be on am3+. so AMD can pump out new systems without making consumers buy all new parts.
it seems like AMD is targetting servers with thier fusion lines now, either in very low power setups, or stepping up to bulldozer servers.

different strokes...
and we agree it's all good for us, right?

[FAPTurbo]

What AMD needs to be doing is promoting itself. As it stands, the company is non-existent in the public's mind. OK, so they sponsor Lance Armstrong; the only time the American public really see Lance is when he's on the podium and they're busy making fun of the Frenchies.

This is why their CEO was given the boot, I think. The guy is an engineer, and underperformed when it came to marketing decisions, among other things. Hopefully their new CEO will be overseeing some big advertising overtures soon. As it stands, Intel is the juggernaut it is, not because it makes the best chips, but because people identify Intel with being a superior product. People bought Pentium 4's thinking they were great, when AMD's K8 was easily the better chip. Why? Because Intel has commercials, branding on every PC advertisement, and of course, the oh so familiar jingle:



Fortunately, AMD's Bobcat, and Llano platform make Intel's comparable offerings look like 8086's. But AMD needs to market these products; people won't know it's the superior technology if you don't convince them of it. That's doubly important, now that VIA is once again raring to enter the mainstream, and nVidia developing its ARM chip that will be CPU/GPU. Those companies will be going for a lot of the potential share AMD is targeting too.

AMD also needs to make a large push to businesses, especially small businesses who buy Intel because, well, nobody ever got fired for buying Intel.

[loki]

AMD also needs to make a large push to businesses, especially small businesses who buy Intel because, well, nobody ever got fired for buying Intel.

but as olds has said so many times, intel is just a meany-butt for coercing companies like dell, to not make many amd models.

it's been years since i've seen an AMD commercial, but maybe, just maybe that's their tactic, solid, and cheaper, product will get it's own following, instead of having to spend so much on ads. maybe?

[FAPTurbo]

but as olds has said so many times, intel is just a meany-butt for coercing companies like dell, to not make many amd models.

But they're still made, and Intel has since been busted for those anti-competitive acts. Like I previously said, nobody was ever fired for buying an Intel. Their products are regarded as 'safe' and name-brand, like Microsoft. AMD needs to get it out there that their products are just as reliable, and more cost effective.

it's been years since i've seen an AMD commercial, but maybe, just maybe that's their tactic, solid, and cheaper, product will get it's own following, instead of having to spend so much on ads. maybe?

Well, if that was their plan, it has utterly failed, because Intel has really encroached on AMD's server, and mainstream markesthare. Joe Average does not care what is in his PC, as long as it loads his email, spreadsheets, and porn. That's why you never see an Intel ad on television talking about 'hyperthreading' or cache. Instead it's a jingle at the end of an advertisement for a laptop, or it's a bunch of dancing engineers, or Homer Simpson.

[loki]

Joe Average does not care what is in his PC, as long as it loads his email, spreadsheets, and porn. That's why you never see an Intel ad on television talking about 'hyperthreading' or cache. Instead it's a jingle at the end of an advertisement for a laptop, or it's a bunch of dancing engineers, or Homer Simpson.

that's for certain....maybe the battery life of the fusion line will surprise people...hopefully.

[@dmin]

and we agree it's all good for us, right?

Yes, I love competition.... I would love to see Cyrix come back as well. Also Amiga is coming out with a PC. It will be interesting the next 2 years. AMD has taken to much sweet time with bully. I think I first heard about it in like 07. As said they need to stand up to Intels marketing machine.

[black-knight]

My Toshiba laptop has an AMD processor ... just for the record.

[loki]

http://blogs.amd.com...rgy-efficiency/

hopefully they're not trying to lie to us - "hype"

The Bulldozer core implements numerous improvements that target super-efficient computation in all aspects of the design. These features build on and extend the foundational innovations that were discussed as part of the “Llano” disclosures

Fully power gating the core to essentially zero power when not in use

Sharing components in the dual core design (instruction fetch, decode, L2 cache, FP) to make more efficient use of them while still delivering the performance of a true dual core. This is sort of like the efficiency of a duplex home design where heat, plumbing, foundation and electrical infrastructure can all be shared, but the structure still provides independent homes for two families.

Optimizing the low level circuits for maximal efficiency at all levels. For instance low-power flip-flop design shown in paper 4.5 yesterday at ISSCC provides innovative power reductions for one of the biggest power consuming circuits in the core. The clock grid (another big power sink) builds on the power efficiencies of past designs, and adds more improvements. Perhaps most importantly, the grounds-up design opportunity enabled an unprecedented level of clock gating (see figure below from the paper) to reduce power waste as shown in the graph below. Retrofitting a design to add logic to turn clocks off when circuits aren’t used is a time consuming and error-prone process. The Bulldozer team designed these in from the beginning which enabled the inclusion of over 30,000 individual clock enables to be used.

And finally, a next generation AMD Turbo CORE technology implementation that provides maximum compute speed when required, and throttles back to maximum efficiency when appropriate. Bulldozer implements a significantly more aggressive version of this capability than “Llano” with more details to be disclosed in the future.

Putting all these improvements together means the high performance computing engine that is the Bulldozer core will enable the best of both worlds: great computing speed without the costly and unpleasant side effects of high power consumption. Initially AMD plans to deploy this core in desktop and server products, but it may provide the foundation for efficient processors across AMD’s product line for many years to come.

[loki]

Llano comparison to mobile SB video


it is mostly gpu loaded benchies, but... still impressive.

[FAPTurbo]

So there's been quite a bit of interesting news about Socket AM3+.

Seems like certain BD CPU's will be able to plug into 890 chipsets. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. Enthusiasts do continue to get a nice upgrade path from AMD, but now I'm worried that BD CPU's may not be as earth shattering as AMD has claimed. Can a totally new architecture really just plug into an existing chipset (that is really a rehash of one that debuted in 2007) and still be able to perform perfectly?

This also means that the 990 chipset isn't too different either. I'm worried.

[loki]

BD isn't supposed to be backwards compatible... different pin count, but yes, i've heard that too. AM3 is supposed to be able to be used in am3+
i think the biggest changes will be the ram speed it supports and the power management (compared to thuban)

hopefully it won't be more than 3 months before everything is revealed.

edit. actually, i hope they finally move chipsets onto the next man. node. like 45 or 40 (if not 32/28). this 65/55nm is just so wasteful. lol

Edited by loki, 04 April 2011 - 01:15 AM.

[loki]

http://www.gigabyte....jid=10&p=2&v=26
http://www.xbitlabs....processors.html

to your am3+ mobo comment.

[loki]

http://blogs.amd.com...pu-is-shipping/

Production units of AMD’s 32 nanometer quad-core “Llano” A-Series Accelerated Processor Units (APU) with discrete-level graphics are now shipping.


shipping...from the fab to oem partners

Edited by loki, 04 April 2011 - 03:25 PM.

[loki]

assuming these are the boxes. very cool!

http://www.cpuforever.com/showthread.php?tid=380

[loki]

'nother benchie for llano...mobile vs desktop I7?

[loki]

release dates for the "big 3" (chips and platform)
http://www.fudzilla....hedule-revealed

"Starting at Computex, AMD will introduce 9-series chipsets, including Zambezi FX chipsets and a new chipset, of Fusion Controller Hub for upcoming APUs. AMD will follow up the chipset launch at E3, where it will show off new AM3+ motherboards.

As for the mainstream stuff, Llano and Sabine are scheduled to launch on June 12 in Asia, while the launch date for the rest of the globe is June 14."

computex is may 31st to june 4th
e3 is june7th - 9th

Edited by loki, 03 May 2011 - 11:09 AM.