Cadillac Faces A Conundrum With the Escalade

Over the 6 model years from 2009 to 2014, sedans have lost 0.9% of the marketshare. If you want to call that "declining", I guess that's your perogative.

 

SUVs and CUVs together have gained 5.1% over the same years. Some colossal tidal shift.

 

As far as 2020 goes, who knows?? Last summer everyone was projecting $5/gal gas in the U.S.. Only time will show if any major shifts will occur.

Actually it pains me but I have to stick up for his claim on the CUV is outselling the Sedans. I can't remember where I saw the story but it may have been on Autoblog. They stated last year CUV sales has passed up Sedan sales.

I totally disagree with about all he post but in this case I did see info stating this. They did not give the criteria on how they came to this total but with the great number of CUV models and the large numbers they sell in I could see it happening. Just the Nox and Terrain alone at GM account for almost 300,000 units with the SRX taking them over that. That is Camry numbers and they mostly all sold for more than a Camry.

Also note the rise of the CUV has never been hampered by fuel prices as most get better than SUV MPG. In fact many of the buyers have come from larger SUV models.

One look in any parking lot at the mall will show you the vast numbers being sold today too. I have seen where entire rows a the stores are parked up with SUV and CUV models.

People want larger interiors and more capacity to haul things and that is what they are getting. Also the CUV have a better appeal to men since it is not a Mini Van. For many the Mini Van was a sign you gave up for a guy. At least with a CUV it has a truck like appearance or stance.

As the trend is going more and more people are going to the CUV and that is only going to bring more models. Also the MFG are making more money per unit on these than a comparable sedan in many cases. So they go to where the sales and money is going.

Sorry I had to support him here but he is right so little odds it will not happen very soon again.

Keep in mind they were counting even models like the Encore etc.

We always heard we would be driving pods in the future. At the rate it is going with people going to small CUV models and such they may become pods by the time we are done.

You don't have to feel any pain, hyper; the numbers have CUVs AND SUVs grouped together. CUVs are probably 85% of that number, but they're not (yet) eclipsing sedans.

Unless somehow that group saw a tremendous jump in sales in the last 12 months. 

I would like to see the SUV / CUV number split…. but either way, the segments are remarkably stable WRT marketshare.

So here are two stories that cover saying that SUV's and CUV's surpassed Sedans.

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/07/suvs-and-crossovers-surpass-sedans-in.html

http://jacksonville.com/autos/2014-07-18/story/suv-crossover-surpass-sedan-vehicle-registrations

We even had our own coverage of SUVs/CUVs surpassing sedan registration / sales in 2014.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/_/news/industry/suvs-and-crossovers-pass-sedans-in-sales-r2305

Interesting figures. Wonder who is right?

 

You don't have to feel any pain, hyper; the numbers have CUVs AND SUVs grouped together. CUVs are probably 85% of that number, but they're not (yet) eclipsing sedans.

 

Unless somehow that group saw a tremendous jump in sales in the last 12 months. 

 

I would like to see the SUV / CUV number split…. but either way, the segments are remarkable stable WRT marketshare.

The reason they are grouped together is because there is no longer a definitive line between what is an SUV and what is a CUV.   Body on Frame makes an SUV? Well then does that mean the Grand Cherokee, Durango, and Land Rover Range Rover are crossovers?  Is it the direction the engine is facing with longitudinal being an SUV.... does that mean the GLK/GLC and X3 are SUVs then?    Maybe if it is on a shared car platform or not makes it a crossover?  That would make the Traverse an SUV and an Explorer a crossover.

We can't really stick most of them into the anachronistic segments we once had.   

^ That's fine & well, and I agree they should be grouped…. but many times enthusiasts / boards talk about them as if they are 2 distinct segments.

We've all read on C&G how Cadillac only has "one CUV", have we not? :shrug:

But to answer the specific charge earlier in this thread… CUVs alone have not surpassed sedans yet.

And again I submit; if we're going to (have to) group SUVs & CUVs together, there's no earthly reason to separate out coupes, wagons & sedans from each other… and there, they're still over 46%.
 

The way that makes the most sense is we group 'cars', 'SUVs/CUVs' and 'pickups' as 3 separate segments and call it done.

If we persist with all this hair splitting, pray tell where is the Murano convertible plugged?

^ That's fine & well, and I agree they should be grouped…. but many times enthusiasts / boards talk about them as if they are 2 distinct segments.

We've all read on C&G how Cadillac only has "one CUV", have we not? :shrug:

 

But to answer the specific charge earlier in this thread… CUVs alone have not surpassed sedans yet.

And again I submit; if we're going to (have to) group SUVs & CUVs together, there's no earthly reason to separate out coupes, wagons & sedans from each other… and there, they're still over 46%.

 

The way that makes the most sense is we group 'cars', 'SUVs/CUVs' and 'pickups' as 3 separate segments and call it done.

If we persist with all this hair splitting, pray tell where is the Murano convertible plugged?

Oh please tell me they aren't making an electric version of that!

I count SUV/CUV as the same thing, pretty much anything tall with a 2 box design I lump in together.  With big volume coming from that segment, van and pickups, they'll have to push mileage up on them.  CAFE might be a reason to look at an Omega Escalade, but it still has to be big, clingy and have a V8, as that is what makes it popular.

^ That's fine & well, and I agree they should be grouped…. but many times enthusiasts / boards talk about them as if they are 2 distinct segments.

We've all read on C&G how Cadillac only has "one CUV", have we not? :shrug:

 

But to answer the specific charge earlier in this thread… CUVs alone have not surpassed sedans yet.

And again I submit; if we're going to (have to) group SUVs & CUVs together, there's no earthly reason to separate out coupes, wagons & sedans from each other… and there, they're still over 46%.

 

The way that makes the most sense is we group 'cars', 'SUVs/CUVs' and 'pickups' as 3 separate segments and call it done.

If we persist with all this hair splitting, pray tell where is the Murano convertible plugged?

I have struggled with this for a while. I know the market looks at them as the same but on forums I have to adapt to who ever I am addressing as so many have not adopted the new convention of one and the same.

The merger really took effect when Ford took the Explorer to the unibody FWD based vehicle and GM went to the Lambda.

The stories I have read lump them all and last year was the year they consider when they took over for the sedans and the segment is only getting stronger.

As for the Monaro Convertible that was in the make the wife happy. From what I read they made it because one of Nissans leaders wives wanted one.

I count SUV/CUV as the same thing, pretty much anything tall with a 2 box design I lump in together.  With big volume coming from that segment, van and pickups, they'll have to push mileage up on them.  CAFE might be a reason to look at an Omega Escalade, but it still has to be big, clingy and have a V8, as that is what makes it popular.

Then why do you keep saying that Cadillac has only one crossover?  In fact, if we use the German methodology of "counting" models, Cadillac has three. I guess probably because it suits your bias of stomping on anything Cadillac. 

As for the Monaro Convertible that was in the make the wife happy. From what I read they made it because one of Nissans leaders wives wanted one.

I guess he works for Land Rover now?

I had to double read that...

I said to myself...when in the world did Holden make a convertible Monaro?

And what does an Aussie 2 door coupe have anything to do with this?

Then it dawned on me...typo...

The stories I have read lump them all and last year was the year they consider when they took over for the sedans and the segment is only getting stronger.

One would do well to recognize that these articles --again; ever eager to trumpet any sort of "news/trends"-- are putting all non-pickup 'trucks' against a singular 'car' body style.

It suits media's frequent agenda, but it does not suit logic. 

The stories I have read lump them all and last year was the year they consider when they took over for the sedans and the segment is only getting stronger.

 

One would do well to recognize that these articles --again; ever eager to trumpet any sort of "news/trends"-- are putting all non-pickup 'trucks' against a singular 'car' body style.

It suits media's frequent agenda, but it does not suit logic.

It is what it is in an ever evolving market. We do not set the standards but we are left to abide by those that will be set and modified.

Either way the market and the products will continue to evolve and change what a CUV or SUV are and at this point most will be in one large mash up.

With the ever growing CUV market and the shrinking SUV market the CUV designation will prove to be the most dominate till the next trend comes along.

In this day of ever shrinking product Americans cling to the larger vehicles or those with the most interior space and utility.

What shrinking product?  Except for the compact crossover segment which is relatively new, almost all segments have grown substantially.  Tempo -> Contour -> Fusion (which is as large as the old Taurus)

The Civic of today is larger than the Accord of 25 years ago. 

 I'd also wager that a lot of the sales of these compact crossovers are coming at the expense of small economy car sales rather than people downsizing from a Suburban. 

What shrinking product?  Except for the compact crossover segment which is relatively new, almost all segments have grown substantially.  Tempo -> Contour -> Fusion (which is as large as the old Taurus)

The Civic of today is larger than the Accord of 25 years ago. 

 

 I'd also wager that a lot of the sales of these compact crossovers are coming at the expense of small economy car sales rather than people downsizing from a Suburban.

What used to be the volume cars like the Crown Vic and the Caprice are now pretty much gone and people are in mid sized cars like Malibu and Fusion. These are smaller cars than what was the norm before trucks really became a force. Most full size car owners moved on to trucks and SUV models.

Yes the mid size cars have grown as what car owners we have left have down sized mostly due to price or need or want of MPG. They forgo the Imapala because they just can't afford the loaded LTZ there but they can afford more Malibu.

As for ability to haul things the Maliu and Cruze do well for their size as long as the object is not tall. They have lots of room in the trunk but large square boxed that will fit inside can not get past the opening.

People discovered the mini van in the 80's were it has more interior room and cargo ability and they liked it. Men were not smitten but women were and they now buy half of the cars on the market. Now the CUV is the happy medium for most people as it has utility more space and head room and the ability to make men feel a little better driving the wifes vehicle.

The market has shifted and we are now a mid size based market as the full size cars are shrinking in availability and sales.

The over all size of all cars averaged out from the 80's to today is smaller as a market size as a whole. Yes some grew a little but more shrunk and even smaller ones appeared.

No matter what people like the size and utility of the CUV and it will continue to grow. It has nearly killed the mini van and has made a major hit in the sedan segment.

A Malibu may have grown in size but to get that new 60" screen home that smaller Encore can do it much better.

No matter what people like the size and utility of the CUV and it will continue to grow. It has nearly killed the mini van and has made a major hit in the sedan segment.

Again; the data from 2009 thru 2014 shows sedans --as the singular car body style-- down only 0.9%.

IMO, a decline I would consider dubbing "major" would have to be closer to 10%, not >1%.

My 2 cents.

No matter what people like the size and utility of the CUV and it will continue to grow. It has nearly killed the mini van and has made a major hit in the sedan segment.

 

Again; the data from 2009 thru 2014 shows sedans --as the singular car body style-- down only 0.9%.

 

IMO, a decline I would consider dubbing "major" would have to be closer to 10%, not >1%.

 

 

My 2 cents.

You have your reports and I have mine. As pointed out there are more than one place that shows the gains and number sold that support the CUV segments strength.

Just go to any store parking lot and you can see the percentages there. More often than not the new CUV/SUV will out number many of the new cars.

Chevy alone sold something like 260,000 Nox last year alone. What other Chevy car came close not using any kind of fleet sales? Even back in the HHR days they were selling 150,000 plus HHR's which is amazing as it really was a car under the skin but people perceived it to be a SUV/CUV.

Even someone like you has enough awareness that GM and most other MFG's are investing and building more and more CUV models because they are the hot ticket and are growing much faster than any other segment there is. Also they produce more profit than most cars that are sold with larger incentives.

Even as I drove down the street tonight most homes now hold at least one CUV in the garage or drive way when just 10 years ago that was not true.

It's not a matter of "yours' or 'my' reports; I posted an IHS Automotive chart based off of Polk new car registrations. That's "the" numbers, regardless of who quotes them.

Now, what op-ed pieces do with that info, such as omit the inclusion of SUVs in that total and specifically call the percentage "CUVs", is yet again; typically sloppy 'journalistic' laziness.

The bottom line is still; cars : 46%, SUVs & CUVs : 36%.

Parking lot visual estimates are anecdotal, not empirical. 

Are the HHR, PT Cruiser, Kia Soul, Scion xB, and Nissan Cube cars or crossovers?

What makes the Kia Soul different from say a VW Golf or Chevy Sonic 5-Door?

Is is just how high the suspension is set?

Look at Cadillac, there are months when the SRX outsells the ATS, XTS, and CTS combined, and the SRX is their oldest model.  Sadly the people want boxes on wheels rather than rear drive sport sedans.  Give me a rear drive car any day of the week and twice on Sunday, but the buying public thinks otherwise.  Lexus is similar, the RX is their #1 product, the GS is a sales dud, the ES sells because Camry buyers had to go somewhere when they turned 70.

^ Very true, thus; as the homogenization of passenger vehicles continues, these 'trends' are less and less important.

Are the HHR, PT Cruiser, Kia Soul, Scion xB, and Nissan Cube cars or crossovers?

What makes the Kia Soul different from say a VW Golf or Chevy Sonic 5-Door?

Is is just how high the suspension is set?

^ Very true, thus; as the homogenization of passenger vehicles continues, these 'trends' are less and less important.

Are the HHR, PT Cruiser, Kia Soul, Scion xB, and Nissan Cube cars or crossovers?

What makes the Kia Soul different from say a VW Golf or Chevy Sonic 5-Door?

Is is just how high the suspension is set?

PT Cruiser was sort of low, but the Soul, HHR and Scion you don't really sit down into, you climb up or at least move across to get in them if that makes any sense.  The seating position on those is higher than in a car.  But there is a lot of gray area with those sort of vehicles. 

Although with a lot of these crossovers, I think perceived safety, size and engine power helps gets sales.  If you buy an SRX or RX350 or Lincoln MKX you get a 300ish horsepower V6.  Go buy $45k luxury sedan and you'll probably get a turbo 4 engine.  Even the Lexus GS has a turbo 4 now.  So buyers will think more size + more power = better.  

 

Are the HHR, PT Cruiser, Kia Soul, Scion xB, and Nissan Cube cars or crossovers?

What makes the Kia Soul different from say a VW Golf or Chevy Sonic 5-Door?

Is is just how high the suspension is set?

PT Cruiser was sort of low, but the Soul, HHR and Scion you don't really sit down into, you climb up or at least move across to get in them if that makes any sense.  The seating position on those is higher than in a car.  But there is a lot of gray area with those sort of vehicles. 

 

The HHR you sit down into, not a lot, but you do. My Escape is about "level" for me(5'8") I don't climb up at all or fall down at all. The HHR definitely sits lower. It's much more car-like in my opinion. 

Well here is the deal.

Things are not just as simple to class as you may think.

The PT was considered a non car as it counted for truck fuel mileage. That is unless you had a convertible and then it was considered a car because it had no hatch and no cargo area like the 4 door.

The truth is these small wagon with high roof are considered what is a CUV today and not counted among the car volume.

The HHR was based on a Cobalt but no one would have bought the Cobalt wagon at a volume of 150,000 units per year but hive it a high roof [HHR means Heritage High Roof] with some modern Suburban lines and people will buy it.

The Nox, Terrain and SRX have a platform that is based on a car platform and adapted to their use. Many of the other small CUV's share many car parts too.

The point is if it looks like a truck or has cargo area like a truck no matter if it is FWD, RWD or 4x4 it can be a CUV in todays terms. We may see a sub set yet added to space out the CUV segment as there are so many variations today.

To be honest my HHR is a car but looks, feels and is classes at a CUV/SUV.

The trick to a good CUV is to make it appear like a truck, haul like a truck but drive, ride and get MPG like a car. That is what people want today. Also the lower cost vs. a full size SUV has driven people to these lower cost alternatives.

We are in a state of evolution in the auto industry we have no seen on this scale for 100 years. The automobile is being totally transformed because of the regulations driving MPG, peoples expectations of still being able to get the same of better untility and at a price they still can afford. Lets face it the cost is going up fasteter than income levels.

You can call it what you like but this automotive mish mash is not going away and will onlyu continue to evolve.

Hell they now are predicting we all will start ride sharing. Wonderful! Just what I want to do is share a boring self driving car with a bunch of monobows that leave all their Mc Donalds wrapers on the floor. While right now is the best time for auto enthiusiast it also is a time many want to take it all away from us too.

Anyways the real reasons people are going to CUV models is this.

Cheaper to buy than say a Tahoe.

Better MPG

Better utility vs. a small car in most cases.

Many sit high and people like this.

AWD options because somne folks think you can not drive in snow with out it anymore.

A CUV is loved by women and accepted by men unlike the Mini Van loved by women and detested by most men.

As for safety I really do not see that as a factor. Most vehicles are 5 stars now and going to a Fiat 500 X is not a symbole of safety to most coming from a Tahoe. As for power most CUV models are 4 cylinders few are V6 unless you get to the high end models that only account for a smaller number of sales. Count the tail pipes on a Nox and if it only has one as 3/4 do it is a 4.

But a Fiat 500x probably seems safer than a Fiat 500 or a Mazda 3 or Chevy Sonic. The 500x could be a death trap but I bet 90% of the buying public thinks it is safer than a Focus simply because it is is a crossover.

But a Fiat 500x probably seems safer than a Fiat 500 or a Mazda 3 or Chevy Sonic. The 500x could be a death trap but I bet 90% of the buying public thinks it is safer than a Focus simply because it is is a crossover.

I Doubt the safety thing goes any where lower than the old body on frame guys.

The rest look for 5 star ratings and leave it right there.

Well, I think the next step for Cadillac is to make the Escalade even more better.

It dispatched everyone else in this field in the luxury realm in a recent huge comparo. Perhaps now thet can make a hyper luxury model to go against the Mercedes Mayback GLS600 (whatever it'll be called) and the Bentley Bentayga.

Cadillac is more autonomous now than in recent memory. If they now see a viable market for an ultra-luxury product, we'll see them commit to it.

The thing is, Mercedes-Maybach is even less than a badge-engineered product or platform share.

It's just a stretched S550 with the option to tart up the interior to Bentley levels of cowhide. The GLK however is something else. It's a beast of its own, and it doesn't compete with anything internally to Mercedes all that well or is intended to at all.

And that is exactly the same with the Escalade. A lot of buyers for Denali and Escalades simply overlook anything else that might be made from the brand. 

So Cadillac should be worried more about organic growth for its upper echelon for cars, while making sure the Escalade is a vehicle of its own that no Cadillac model can really compete with absolutely head to head. They do that, while preserving its image for excess and bling, they should see no problem.

I think making the Escalade a global model, might not be preferable. If it dilutes the product, then maybe an all-new XT7 of sorts would be a better approach.