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    New Lawsuit Alleges GM Used Software In Cruze Diesel to Cheat Emissions


    • General Motors is the latest to be hit with a lawsuit over their diesel vehicle

    Another class-action lawsuit involving a diesel vehicle has been filed this week, but it doesn't deal with Volkswagen. The Detroit News reports that class-action lawsuit has been filed against General Motors this week alleging the company used illegal software on the Chevrolet Cruze diesel to allow it to pass emission tests in the lab, while polluting more in the outside world. Also, the suit alleges the company falsely and marketed its Cruze Diesel as a “clean vehicle.”

     

    The suit, filed by the Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro law firm in Seattle says the six plaintiffs it is representing in this suit have tested their vehicles with a portable emissions measurement system. In certain instances, the system found the Cruze Diesel failed to meet U.S. emissions standards.

     

    “Diesel emissions fraud didn’t stop with Volkswagen or Mercedes. GM has proven that it too placed greed and profits ahead of thousands of owners who paid premium prices for what they thought were clean diesel cars,” said Steve Berman, managing partner of Hagens Berman.

     

    The firm is seeking buybacks of the Cruze Diesel, reimbursement for the $2,000 or more premium over the standard Cruze, and compensation on any “fix” and extended warranties that aren’t used.

     

    “These claims are baseless and we will vigorously defend ourselves. GM believes the Chevrolet Cruze turbo diesel complies with all U.S. EPA and CARB emissions regulations,” GM said in a statement to The Detroit News.

     

    We can't help but wonder if the Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro law firm is on a diesel witch hunt. Aside from this new lawsuit, the firm is in a court-appointed committee in a case dealing with the Volkswagen diesel emission scandal and is leading the case against Mercedes-Benz for allegedly using a 'defeat device' on their diesel vehicles.

     

    Source: The Detroit News

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    Diesel witch hunt it is.

     

    Now I suppose why aren't we testing gasoline vehicle to see if they're emissions compliant?

    This is a very good point. Why would an automaker stop at diesel only?
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    This is just another case of corporate black mail. 

     

    Law firms look for cases with large automakers where they know they have no case but yet still file these class action cases to basically work for a settlement just to go away. They often know they can't win but they know the company does not want the bad publicity generated and they often are cheaper to settle than fight to the win in legal cost. 

     

    The fact is that the GM diesels have been investigated in several countries and no issues were found. Most engines do not meet the standard at all times but they do meet them at the regulated standards that are set. The gaps are open and legal to exploit. 

     

    Case in point the gas cars are not regulated at WOT. This lets companies and even tuners to add power to a car at WOT and not mess with the emissions being legal. 

    Same on drive by noise. Companies will put an exhaust on  the drivers side to channel a less restrictive exhaust. By having it on the left side puts it away from the testing standard and they can open the exhaust up and still pass the drive by regulation. It is all legal as they have met the standard. 

     

    The diesel on the other hand is a major issue to meet emissions on soot. It will only get worse as we go on the regulations and I would not be surprised if some countries ban them all together in the near future. Automakers will not fight it in most places as it is just not worth the investment anymore in many places. It is a shame as these are very efficient engines and the emissions they are worried over are small compared to what we had in the past. 

     

    I just feel there is a faction in the global leadership that is out to control economies and people with control over things in our daily lives. By controlling the environmental issues you can gain the power over many industries and countries. You can shift the power and money to areas that could never gain a foot hold. Same with other areas too. 

     

    We are seeing it in England now where people found the EU was  not the utopia that was promised. They found that they lost the freedom to control what happened inside their boarders and the right to make their own choices. While that was going on they picked up the burden for other countries that created their own issues with bad choices. Now we will see others in power try to burn England for taking the step up in trying to free themselves as a punishment and a warning for others. But that is an argument for another day. 

     

    Either way I hope GM calls their bluff and I just pray we finally get some form of Tort reform that makes the looser pay to prevent these frivolous black mail cases. 

     

    In the end these class actions only enrich the legal firms and leave the so called people they represent with a discount on an Oil Change most never use and companies passing on the cost to each of us with out next purchase. 

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    Agree that this is a total black mail by the greedy lawyers and stupid tree huggers here in seattle that might understand the law but really just want to get out of their diesel auto and not be held responsible for their own decision of what they bought.

     

    GM should fight this and hopefully tort reform will happen where people who file frivolous lawsuits has to pay. I am so tired of the greedy lawyers going after companies with issues that really do not affect or impact society and only they get money out of it.

     

    Sadly, this is why we will see Diesel autos die and the various forms of hybrid will be the new high MPG auto's of the future.

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

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    This is just another case of corporate black mail. 

     

    Law firms look for cases with large automakers where they know they have no case but yet still file these class action cases to basically work for a settlement just to go away. They often know they can't win but they know the company does not want the bad publicity generated and they often are cheaper to settle than fight to the win in legal cost. 

     

    The fact is that the GM diesels have been investigated in several countries and no issues were found. Most engines do not meet the standard at all times but they do meet them at the regulated standards that are set. The gaps are open and legal to exploit. 

     

    Case in point the gas cars are not regulated at WOT. This lets companies and even tuners to add power to a car at WOT and not mess with the emissions being legal. 

    Same on drive by noise. Companies will put an exhaust on  the drivers side to channel a less restrictive exhaust. By having it on the left side puts it away from the testing standard and they can open the exhaust up and still pass the drive by regulation. It is all legal as they have met the standard. 

     

    The diesel on the other hand is a major issue to meet emissions on soot. It will only get worse as we go on the regulations and I would not be surprised if some countries ban them all together in the near future. Automakers will not fight it in most places as it is just not worth the investment anymore in many places. It is a shame as these are very efficient engines and the emissions they are worried over are small compared to what we had in the past. 

     

    I just feel there is a faction in the global leadership that is out to control economies and people with control over things in our daily lives. By controlling the environmental issues you can gain the power over many industries and countries. You can shift the power and money to areas that could never gain a foot hold. Same with other areas too. 

     

    We are seeing it in England now where people found the EU was  not the utopia that was promised. They found that they lost the freedom to control what happened inside their boarders and the right to make their own choices. While that was going on they picked up the burden for other countries that created their own issues with bad choices. Now we will see others in power try to burn England for taking the step up in trying to free themselves as a punishment and a warning for others. But that is an argument for another day. 

     

    Either way I hope GM calls their bluff and I just pray we finally get some form of Tort reform that makes the looser pay to prevent these frivolous black mail cases. 

     

    In the end these class actions only enrich the legal firms and leave the so called people they represent with a discount on an Oil Change most never use and companies passing on the cost to each of us with out next purchase. 

    not kidding, the EU's proposed regulations / bans on toasters and tea kettles are said to have made a difference in the way the UK voted.

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    It is not irrelevant as Electric will improve but it is not going to take over the entire industry in all areas. It will still take all variations of energy to meet the needs and desires of customers. 

    While technology will improve we are still decades from infrastructure that will meet the needs to most people. Hell there are still many places with out cell coverage yet today and will not have it in the near future. Not everyone lives in a metro area. 

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    VW stepped over the edge but most MFG take advantage of the gray areas much like Smokey Yunick did in racing. There are open areas where companies can go that are not covered. The real question is how soon till these areas are closed down and make it nearly impossible to make Diesels impossible to sell and own. 

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    hyperv6

    Posted (edited) · Report

     

    This is just another case of corporate black mail. 

     

    Law firms look for cases with large automakers where they know they have no case but yet still file these class action cases to basically work for a settlement just to go away. They often know they can't win but they know the company does not want the bad publicity generated and they often are cheaper to settle than fight to the win in legal cost. 

     

    The fact is that the GM diesels have been investigated in several countries and no issues were found. Most engines do not meet the standard at all times but they do meet them at the regulated standards that are set. The gaps are open and legal to exploit. 

     

    Case in point the gas cars are not regulated at WOT. This lets companies and even tuners to add power to a car at WOT and not mess with the emissions being legal. 

    Same on drive by noise. Companies will put an exhaust on  the drivers side to channel a less restrictive exhaust. By having it on the left side puts it away from the testing standard and they can open the exhaust up and still pass the drive by regulation. It is all legal as they have met the standard. 

     

    The diesel on the other hand is a major issue to meet emissions on soot. It will only get worse as we go on the regulations and I would not be surprised if some countries ban them all together in the near future. Automakers will not fight it in most places as it is just not worth the investment anymore in many places. It is a shame as these are very efficient engines and the emissions they are worried over are small compared to what we had in the past. 

     

    I just feel there is a faction in the global leadership that is out to control economies and people with control over things in our daily lives. By controlling the environmental issues you can gain the power over many industries and countries. You can shift the power and money to areas that could never gain a foot hold. Same with other areas too. 

     

    We are seeing it in England now where people found the EU was  not the utopia that was promised. They found that they lost the freedom to control what happened inside their boarders and the right to make their own choices. While that was going on they picked up the burden for other countries that created their own issues with bad choices. Now we will see others in power try to burn England for taking the step up in trying to free themselves as a punishment and a warning for others. But that is an argument for another day. 

     

    Either way I hope GM calls their bluff and I just pray we finally get some form of Tort reform that makes the looser pay to prevent these frivolous black mail cases. 

     

    In the end these class actions only enrich the legal firms and leave the so called people they represent with a discount on an Oil Change most never use and companies passing on the cost to each of us with out next purchase. 

    not kidding, the EU's proposed regulations / bans on toasters and tea kettles are said to have made a difference in the way the UK voted.

     

     

    It is pure and simple there is a faction that is changing the world financially through emissions and healthcare. UK finally called their bluff and I am afraid they will be made an example of to try to scare others. 

    While health care and emissions are legit issues they are also be extorted to the point they can redistribute power and money to other countries. 

     

    We will see a big push back here if it is not already too late before too many are brain washed or it is just too late to do anything about it. America has a history of not wanting to be told what to do by others outside our country. This will lead to similar issues here I am afraid. 

     

    We already have leaders willing to put emissions in the hands of the UN and let them tell us what we can and can't do in our own country.  Once you give up your sovereignty you will have a difficult time getting it back unless you are willing to fight for it. 

     

    Here in Ohio they selectively enforces Emissions testing on a county by county basis. If you live in a select few counties that had a run of poor emissions years ago you are now forced to be inspected while residents less than 10-20 miles away  are never tested. I don't think the air between counties stops?

     

    Note emission are similar at to the Columbus area and they do not have testing but the law makers also live there too. Hmm?

     

    Finally note many years ago those who passed the laws also invested in the company that did the testing. Now they do not charge for it anymore but are taking the money from the cigarette settlement to pay for it  that could be used to fix our roads and bridges. Nothing like stealing the money right from in front of everyone and getting away with it. 

    Same in Cleveland. We had a past senator pass to get taxes for a new stadium that was being built where he bought up all the property. He then built parking and made fortune off of it. 

     

    There are so many scams and no one speaks out. 

    Edited by hyperv6
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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    It is not irrelevant as Electric will improve but it is not going to take over the entire industry in all areas. It will still take all variations of energy to meet the needs and desires of customers. 

    While technology will improve we are still decades from infrastructure that will meet the needs to most people. Hell there are still many places with out cell coverage yet today and will not have it in the near future. Not everyone lives in a metro area. 

     

    I don't think it is unrealistic to think that in 2050 every new car sold will be electric.  It won't happen overnight, but it will happen in time.  Electricity is more readily available than gas also.  And electricity has better performance too.  Cost is the obstacle, eventually they will overcome that.

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    It is not irrelevant as Electric will improve but it is not going to take over the entire industry in all areas. It will still take all variations of energy to meet the needs and desires of customers. 

    While technology will improve we are still decades from infrastructure that will meet the needs to most people. Hell there are still many places with out cell coverage yet today and will not have it in the near future. Not everyone lives in a metro area. 

     

    I don't think it is unrealistic to think that in 2050 every new car sold will be electric.  It won't happen overnight, but it will happen in time.  Electricity is more readily available than gas also.  And electricity has better performance too.  Cost is the obstacle, eventually they will overcome that.

     

     

    To be totally honest there will be a place for many forms of power. 

     

    Electric will grow but unless there is some major advancement in charging times and ability to charge just about anywhere. Electric cars to many owners are life style changing to live with them and until that is handled it will remain a hurtle. When will these changes come. Next year? 10 Years  or 75 years.  You can not predict advancements. More money is going in and will increase the odds but there is no way to predict it. 

    As it is most market watchers that are stable and intelligent agree that Gas will still be a part of the market for a good time into the future unless the government out laws it like some EU countries are trying. 

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    It is not irrelevant as Electric will improve but it is not going to take over the entire industry in all areas. It will still take all variations of energy to meet the needs and desires of customers. 

    While technology will improve we are still decades from infrastructure that will meet the needs to most people. Hell there are still many places with out cell coverage yet today and will not have it in the near future. Not everyone lives in a metro area. 

     

    I don't think it is unrealistic to think that in 2050 every new car sold will be electric.  It won't happen overnight, but it will happen in time.  Electricity is more readily available than gas also.  And electricity has better performance too.  Cost is the obstacle, eventually they will overcome that.

     

     

    To be totally honest there will be a place for many forms of power. 

     

    Electric will grow but unless there is some major advancement in charging times and ability to charge just about anywhere. Electric cars to many owners are life style changing to live with them and until that is handled it will remain a hurtle. When will these changes come. Next year? 10 Years  or 75 years.  You can not predict advancements. More money is going in and will increase the odds but there is no way to predict it. 

    As it is most market watchers that are stable and intelligent agree that Gas will still be a part of the market for a good time into the future unless the government out laws it like some EU countries are trying. 

     

    Just received my EGO Electric Blower, weed wacker and lawn mower today.

     

    http://egopowerplus.com/collections/products 

     

    All are pure cordless electric and uses a 56V Lithium-Ion 7.5Ah battery.

     

    The battery recharges in less than 30 min and yet I have over an hour of use in the lawn mower or almost 1 1/2hrs of use in the blower or weed wacker. I love who quiet they are and yet how fast they get the job done.

     

    Truly some companies are figuring out how to get a battery recharged fast.

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    We know diesels need the urea systems, and some technology to get compliant, so I guess the question is, how much are these car companies doing to get these cars to pass emissions.  They probably all cheat to some degree, but gas cars are letting off emissions too, and they have emission control systems that I am sure some lawyer or scientist somewhere could claim is not meeting a standard.

     

    It does seem like a witch hunt on diesels, but it will all be irrelevant in a few years.  As electric motors and batteries get better, plug in hybrid and EV's will grow, people won't want diesel anyway.

     

    It is not irrelevant as Electric will improve but it is not going to take over the entire industry in all areas. It will still take all variations of energy to meet the needs and desires of customers. 

    While technology will improve we are still decades from infrastructure that will meet the needs to most people. Hell there are still many places with out cell coverage yet today and will not have it in the near future. Not everyone lives in a metro area. 

     

    I don't think it is unrealistic to think that in 2050 every new car sold will be electric.  It won't happen overnight, but it will happen in time.  Electricity is more readily available than gas also.  And electricity has better performance too.  Cost is the obstacle, eventually they will overcome that.

     

     

    To be totally honest there will be a place for many forms of power. 

     

    Electric will grow but unless there is some major advancement in charging times and ability to charge just about anywhere. Electric cars to many owners are life style changing to live with them and until that is handled it will remain a hurtle. When will these changes come. Next year? 10 Years  or 75 years.  You can not predict advancements. More money is going in and will increase the odds but there is no way to predict it. 

    As it is most market watchers that are stable and intelligent agree that Gas will still be a part of the market for a good time into the future unless the government out laws it like some EU countries are trying. 

     

    Just received my EGO Electric Blower, weed wacker and lawn mower today.

     

    http://egopowerplus.com/collections/products 

     

    All are pure cordless electric and uses a 56V Lithium-Ion 7.5Ah battery.

     

    The battery recharges in less than 30 min and yet I have over an hour of use in the lawn mower or almost 1 1/2hrs of use in the blower or weed wacker. I love who quiet they are and yet how fast they get the job done.

     

    Truly some companies are figuring out how to get a battery recharged fast.

     

     

    Much of it has to do with the size and the capacity and the usage of the battery. The variable change the game depending on the use and needs. While they have gotten better there is still much that is needed and expected from Batteries. 

     

    Now see here I could never use a electric anything other than a weed eater. Mowing here is longer generally than most charges will last. We can mow here for hours. Also leaf blowing in the fall can also take hours. 

    We also would not stop for 30 min when we can gas up in 30 seconds. 

     

    Electric is not a one size fits all for everyone. 

     

    On that note I saw a very nice looking Volt today on the road. I have to admit the new Volt is a stunning car inside and out. The plate said Gas LOL.

     

    It is product like this that will warm hearts to electric as the styling is not science fair like and the abilities fit more lives at this point. Get the price down to a Cruze and people will really start to pay attention. The Volt at this point is not a lifestyle changer as a pure electric can be to many. 

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    Hyper I can totally understand your take on the short battery life, but since I bought the trio of products I have 3 batteries and each battery lasts 75 min plus according to the manufacture with many people saying they get 1 1/2 hours per battery. Each device comes with a battery and charger, so I have 3 chargers. I can only do one thing at a time so the fall leaf blowing is a No Problem. Use one battery, when used up, swap out and put it on the charger, it will be charged by the time I use up the second battery, but if I still do not want to go back to the house to swap and charge, I can have all 3 batteries with me and just change them out. This gives me a total of 3hrs and 45 min of blowing time at the minimum. By then, I am more than willing to put them all on the chargers and go take a break and get something hot to drink and eat. 

     

    By the time I finish, I have recharged the batteries and can go back out for another near 4hr blow time. 

     

    Also, I am shocked at how quiet the Weed Wacker and Blower are. I used to have gas and always wore ear protection, then moved to corded electric which sucked with moving the cord but was quieter but still required ear protection.

     

    With the EGO products, they are so quiet I need no ear protection and can actually have a conversation. I am really impressed with the quality of the product.

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    hyperv6

    Posted (edited) · Report

    Hyper I can totally understand your take on the short battery life, but since I bought the trio of products I have 3 batteries and each battery lasts 75 min plus according to the manufacture with many people saying they get 1 1/2 hours per battery. Each device comes with a battery and charger, so I have 3 chargers. I can only do one thing at a time so the fall leaf blowing is a No Problem. Use one battery, when used up, swap out and put it on the charger, it will be charged by the time I use up the second battery, but if I still do not want to go back to the house to swap and charge, I can have all 3 batteries with me and just change them out. This gives me a total of 3hrs and 45 min of blowing time at the minimum. By then, I am more than willing to put them all on the chargers and go take a break and get something hot to drink and eat. 

     

    By the time I finish, I have recharged the batteries and can go back out for another near 4hr blow time. 

     

    Also, I am shocked at how quiet the Weed Wacker and Blower are. I used to have gas and always wore ear protection, then moved to corded electric which sucked with moving the cord but was quieter but still required ear protection.

     

    With the EGO products, they are so quiet I need no ear protection and can actually have a conversation. I am really impressed with the quality of the product.

     

     

    See this is my point on electric. It fits your needs and expectations. As for me it fails to meet mine. This is the problem with electric cars as it is today and will be till more advanced charging and batters are perfected. 

     

    While some folks are fine with the slight lifestyle change waiting for a charge most at this point in most parts of the country are not. This is the big hang up in this deal. 

    I expect things to improve but until the electric option offers the same things as what most expect or experience with a Gas powered vehicle most will stick with it. 

    I get all the time just take a 30-45 min piss but for me and most travelers here between the oceans we drive and we drive now. Many people here in Ohio jump in the car and only stop to fill the tank all the way to Florida. Lets be honest there not much to do in Big Chimmney WV or Elja GA on a Wed afternoon. 

     

    This is why I clearly believe gas will remain a major option into the future. Electric will continue to grow as well as other options in other applications. Only government regulations will change the speed of change and that would not go over big with any election so I expect they will let nature take it course. 

     

    This is also why Chevy offers the Volt. It is the answer to those in the middle on this deal that want a electric car around town but still would like to travel in a normal fashion. If not for the price I would be interested in a Volt myself. I like the new one but for that price I would buy a Camaro. 

    Sorry I am not a big Eviro guy. I am all for not dumping toxins in the water and such but I am not for damaging or economy by killing off power sources that we have not fully replaced yet. I tend to balance the environment with the economy as it can be done with cooperation on both sides.

    Also these folks who want to ban meat due to cow farts. Screw em I am going to grill a steak right now.  LOL!

    Edited by hyperv6
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    Hyper I can totally understand your take on the short battery life, but since I bought the trio of products I have 3 batteries and each battery lasts 75 min plus according to the manufacture with many people saying they get 1 1/2 hours per battery. Each device comes with a battery and charger, so I have 3 chargers. I can only do one thing at a time so the fall leaf blowing is a No Problem. Use one battery, when used up, swap out and put it on the charger, it will be charged by the time I use up the second battery, but if I still do not want to go back to the house to swap and charge, I can have all 3 batteries with me and just change them out. This gives me a total of 3hrs and 45 min of blowing time at the minimum. By then, I am more than willing to put them all on the chargers and go take a break and get something hot to drink and eat. 

     

    By the time I finish, I have recharged the batteries and can go back out for another near 4hr blow time. 

     

    Also, I am shocked at how quiet the Weed Wacker and Blower are. I used to have gas and always wore ear protection, then moved to corded electric which sucked with moving the cord but was quieter but still required ear protection.

     

    With the EGO products, they are so quiet I need no ear protection and can actually have a conversation. I am really impressed with the quality of the product.

     

     

    See this is my point on electric. It fits your needs and expectations. As for me it fails to meet mine. This is the problem with electric cars as it is today and will be till more advanced charging and batters are perfected. 

     

    While some folks are fine with the slight lifestyle change waiting for a charge most at this point in most parts of the country are not. This is the big hang up in this deal. 

    I expect things to improve but until the electric option offers the same things as what most expect or experience with a Gas powered vehicle most will stick with it. 

    I get all the time just take a 30-45 min piss but for me and most travelers here between the oceans we drive and we drive now. Many people here in Ohio jump in the car and only stop to fill the tank all the way to Florida. Lets be honest there not much to do in Big Chimmney WV or Elja GA on a Wed afternoon. 

     

    This is why I clearly believe gas will remain a major option into the future. Electric will continue to grow as well as other options in other applications. Only government regulations will change the speed of change and that would not go over big with any election so I expect they will let nature take it course. 

     

    This is also why Chevy offers the Volt. It is the answer to those in the middle on this deal that want a electric car around town but still would like to travel in a normal fashion. If not for the price I would be interested in a Volt myself. I like the new one but for that price I would buy a Camaro. 

    Sorry I am not a big Eviro guy. I am all for not dumping toxins in the water and such but I am not for damaging or economy by killing off power sources that we have not fully replaced yet. I tend to balance the environment with the economy as it can be done with cooperation on both sides.

    Also these folks who want to ban meat due to cow farts. Screw em I am going to grill a steak right now.  LOL!

     

    :rofl:

     

    Agree on the Cow Farts, I love myself a grilled Steak as well as all other forms of Protein. Vegans can go blow their veggie butts out elsewhere. Steak medium rare for me!  :metal:

     

    I have stated in the past that I think the best thing GM could do is use the VOLT power train and put it into their whole product line.

     

    I would love a Suburban with a 100 Mile battery pack for city driving and a generator for long distant driving. I view all EV's for the most part at this time to be inner city transportation and to give clean air to all those that love to eat on the sidewalk next to the belching traffic. I am a suburban boy who loves to get away to the mountains to play.

     

    I understand what you are saying is a balance between the tree hugger and the commercialization of commerce.

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    Hyper I can totally understand your take on the short battery life, but since I bought the trio of products I have 3 batteries and each battery lasts 75 min plus according to the manufacture with many people saying they get 1 1/2 hours per battery. Each device comes with a battery and charger, so I have 3 chargers. I can only do one thing at a time so the fall leaf blowing is a No Problem. Use one battery, when used up, swap out and put it on the charger, it will be charged by the time I use up the second battery, but if I still do not want to go back to the house to swap and charge, I can have all 3 batteries with me and just change them out. This gives me a total of 3hrs and 45 min of blowing time at the minimum. By then, I am more than willing to put them all on the chargers and go take a break and get something hot to drink and eat. 

     

    By the time I finish, I have recharged the batteries and can go back out for another near 4hr blow time. 

     

    Also, I am shocked at how quiet the Weed Wacker and Blower are. I used to have gas and always wore ear protection, then moved to corded electric which sucked with moving the cord but was quieter but still required ear protection.

     

    With the EGO products, they are so quiet I need no ear protection and can actually have a conversation. I am really impressed with the quality of the product.

     

     

    See this is my point on electric. It fits your needs and expectations. As for me it fails to meet mine. This is the problem with electric cars as it is today and will be till more advanced charging and batters are perfected. 

     

    While some folks are fine with the slight lifestyle change waiting for a charge most at this point in most parts of the country are not. This is the big hang up in this deal. 

    I expect things to improve but until the electric option offers the same things as what most expect or experience with a Gas powered vehicle most will stick with it. 

    I get all the time just take a 30-45 min piss but for me and most travelers here between the oceans we drive and we drive now. Many people here in Ohio jump in the car and only stop to fill the tank all the way to Florida. Lets be honest there not much to do in Big Chimmney WV or Elja GA on a Wed afternoon. 

     

    This is why I clearly believe gas will remain a major option into the future. Electric will continue to grow as well as other options in other applications. Only government regulations will change the speed of change and that would not go over big with any election so I expect they will let nature take it course. 

     

    This is also why Chevy offers the Volt. It is the answer to those in the middle on this deal that want a electric car around town but still would like to travel in a normal fashion. If not for the price I would be interested in a Volt myself. I like the new one but for that price I would buy a Camaro. 

    Sorry I am not a big Eviro guy. I am all for not dumping toxins in the water and such but I am not for damaging or economy by killing off power sources that we have not fully replaced yet. I tend to balance the environment with the economy as it can be done with cooperation on both sides.

    Also these folks who want to ban meat due to cow farts. Screw em I am going to grill a steak right now.  LOL!

     

    :rofl:

     

    Agree on the Cow Farts, I love myself a grilled Steak as well as all other forms of Protein. Vegans can go blow their veggie butts out elsewhere. Steak medium rare for me!  :metal:

     

    I have stated in the past that I think the best thing GM could do is use the VOLT power train and put it into their whole product line.

     

    I would love a Suburban with a 100 Mile battery pack for city driving and a generator for long distant driving. I view all EV's for the most part at this time to be inner city transportation and to give clean air to all those that love to eat on the sidewalk next to the belching traffic. I am a suburban boy who loves to get away to the mountains to play.

     

    I understand what you are saying is a balance between the tree hugger and the commercialization of commerce.

     

     

     

    I just don't see a SUV or CUV using the Volt system. The large frontal area and lack of real aerodynamics like we have in a Volt would really limit range. At some point I can see it but right now where aero is a key part of the cars range I just don't see it happening. 

    Even cars like the Tesla X are really aero and not tall. It is more like a tall car than a SUV.  

    Note the rear bumper corners contributed much to the Volt range on the last model. When they are working details like this the large area of a SUV just are no match. Even the exposed suspension creates much drag and it would be difficult to do a belly pan. 

    Many wish for this combo just as GM but we are just not there yet with batteries to pull it off. 

     

    My point with economics and green energy often falls on deaf ears. So many have bought the line that Green energy will save the day economically and some day it may but right now there is a high price to pay. 

    The big vote in England was not just about open boarders but also high energy cost. England was directed to go green in a big way and this took away much of their cheap energy and the average person is really paying the price for it no pun intended. Their industry also was dealing with high cost. 

    Germany is struggling with their energy as they have found the wind is not enough to cover their needs nor is it cheap in the short term. 

     

    My dilemma is you have people in government pushing agendas and not worried about the cost to businesses. In turn they are representing people who are also collecting money from the government funding their green companies and their lobbyist are paying back those who support them enriching them on the way. 

     

    I see much conflict of interest here just as in other areas too. I know coal and other industries also have their lobbies too  but it has to stop where it starts to hurt our ability to produce products and items in this country and in turn costing jobs. 

    You want to sell people on green energy you do not punish them first and then expect them to accept it. 

    This is a deal where all parties need to work together and turn off the personal gains in the changes. Protect business and jobs while working to protect the environment. 

     

    Just watching the news tonight and reading the web we are so far off track on honest reporting and just given the news and not an agenda. Even the government you can see how they are no impartial anymore. The corruption is front and center and yet people pay no attention as they are lied to in their faces. 

     

    Things like the FEC on the debate charges or where Bill Clinton entered the AG plane is just flat wrong. I don't care what party you just do not do things like this. To be hones I feel the AG was the victim here but Bill knows better than that but he has gotten away with so much? We have seen the same on the right too and I do not absolve anyone of doing wrong. 

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