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    200 Mile Range Focus EV? Not Happening


    • Ford Focus EV with 200 Miles? Uh, no.

    One of the key problems with most electric vehicles is the limited range on offer with many offering a max range of around 100 to 120 miles. Many believe that for electric vehicles to be in the mainstream, they need to offer a minimum of 200 Miles. But not Ford.

     

    Speaking with Automotive News, Ford's director of electrification programs and engineering Kevin Layden says the updated 2017 Focus EV with a range of 100 miles will cover the average commute for a driver.

     

    "I think right now with the launch of the Focus Electric at 100 miles, it is going to satisfy a big chunk of the population. It's going to be really affordable and a step up from where we are now," said Layden.

     

    The primary issue is the cost and weight of the batteries to achieve a 200 mile range. Ford doesn't see how an increase of possibly $6,000 and added weight would help. Layden says the lower range allows the blue oval to use a lighter and less expensive battery pack.

     

    But there is another factor possibly in play as to why Ford isn't going with a 200 mile range with the Focus EV, sales. The Focus EV is very slow seller for the brand, with only 1,717 models sold in 2015. Through March, Ford only has moved 257 Focus EVs (average of about 86 vehicles per month).

     

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    The Chevrolet Bolt....200 mile range plus.

    My money is on a 100% electric car getting me off of oil COMPLETELY while using Quebec's raging rivers to power my ride 99.99% cleanly. 

     

    And, while a 100 mile range is brave, it may not be brave enough.

    Ill GLADLY buy a Chevy Bolt!

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

    Yup.

     

    And...if Tesla slips up with the deliveries of the Model 3, I suspect that those people that havent signed on with Tesla just yet, is because they are awaiting to see what is happening with the deliveries, and if Tesla does indeed drops the ball in 2018-2019, they will end up in Chevy stores instead for the Bolt. And by that time, maybe the range will be closer to 250 miles...

     

    Tesla Model 3 pre-orders have shown that people DO want 100% pure EV and AT LEAST 200 mile range....

     

    Good Luck Ford with your Focus, but I think even the Volt will lean your clock.

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    My vote is for 200-250 mile range and eventually ready available fast charge time.

    Fords being pretty stupid on its electric plan

    If I were gm I would throw all the chips down to get volt and bolt powertrains in mainstream segments now. As in NOW .....compact and mid size sedans and compact and midsize SUVs.

    And a real tesla challenger from Cadillac.

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    I would guess that Ford is just maxed out on their vehicle engineering. The only mainstream automaker to do an extended-range electric is one of the biggest on the planet.

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

     

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/

     

    So realistically, It only wouldn't be sufficient for only about 11% of commuters. Which, doesn't account for people who don't work(thinking of stay at home mom/dad or the kids in high school/college) therefore they aren't driving 100+ miles a day running errands n such. 

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

     

    I will say that the BOLT and Tesla 3 will finally give many a reason to ditch at least 1 petrol auto in favor of EV. 200+ miles on these new batteries that show they can loose very little power in extreme cold or heat will allow people to go to work, decide to work out, run errands and even then maybe pick up a friend, etc. and still get home with plenty of charge left. 

     

    Then they plug it in before going to bed and BOOM, all good for the next day. Even if they do not do a bunch of stuff, but just work and home, having to only charge every 2nd or 3rd day is a welcome compared to daily charging on the Spark, Leaf, 500e etc. where they just do not hold up.

     

    Lucky for me plenty of public charging stations of 220 or DC fast charge all over the west coast. :)

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    That was a crazy lease deal, with the heat and use of AC, it seems the EV Focus is averaging about 50 miles a charge. Very interesting. I still think FORD is stupid for NOT going after a proper 200+ mile range EV. Excuses is all it is for them.

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    I think Ford looked at it, and saw no viable, as in profitable way to sell a electric car on near the average transaction price range.

     

    GM is not going to make money on the Bolt, it's going to be NPV negative. Tesla will make money by leveraging their brand to be able to do nickel and diming options.

     

    But, I think they are stupid for it, and I'd like to see more automakers take the risk to speed up the transition.

     

    For god sakes, the only reason why Sergio said he'll copy the Tesla formula if the model 3 produces, is because the Tesla patents are free for any entity to use, without licensing.

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted

    Focus may not be implementing a larger battery for more range, but that does not suggest they don't have something else in the future.  The 3 is 2 years out, maybe longer. I think if Ford is smart and prices the Focus EV accordingly, it will suffice for the vast majority of EV customers, and they will continue to sell it with virtually no profit. So, not a lot of incentive otherwise.

     

    And the next milestone in hybrid is ~60mpg, through improvements in ICE and battery electrical systems.  And PHEV will benefit as well, with longer range and better ICE FE.  And they will do it for less than the anxiety ridden BEV vehicles, which will only accentuate their limitations.

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    uhhhh how about electric BIKES?!?!? Haha

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/24/ford-mode-flex-ebike/

    https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2015/06/fwf/MoDeFlexEbike_FactSht.pdf

    Edited by ccap41
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    Look man, I know that you know I'm a fan of bicycles, but human-powered is just the way to go. It's simpler and more cost effective.

     

    The e-bikes are a hassle to maintain, and there's too many service problems.

     

    For one...the massive torque dump means that everyone just stays in the high gears. In a multi-gear drivetrain that means premature wear and tear on the single cogs. 

     

    And the replacement parts are DOA. Lack of availability, which means prices are ridiculous for a cassette of gears or the mid-drive front cog. Chains wear out because they use thinner gauges. 

     

    Electric bikes should not be multi-geared, but the manufacturers realize that such an E-Bike is done for if it's not charged. Then you have the massive behemoths that have terrible brakes. Like I've worked on these things and it's not fun - especially for the firms that guarantee lifetime basic service on them...

     

    Then there's the issue of wheel replacement, lack of standardized drivetrains - in-hub motors, centre-drive units, mid-drive, the Bosch systems requiring dis-assembly and sending to a service centre... just a hornet's nest of problems...

     

    Anyways....

     

    Well, the press release was more of a near-term solution, say 4-5 years.

     

    I like EVs when there's a Tesla badge on them - otherwise I still find them underwhelming, unless you're the kind that uses the lease techniques to get a deal on a vehicle that pays for itself.

     

    I think it's more important to hybridize anything that would not make for a good ev...like a pickup truck. But even then....I see a lot of model duplication.

     

    Guess what, a hybrid F150 means possibly a hybrid Expy and Navy. Hybrid Fusion and MKZ. Hybrid Focus or C-Max replacement. Given the Escape rides on the global C1 platform like the Focus, there's another one. And then supposedly we'll get a hybrid Edge, and MKX, and with MKC because of Escape.

     

    That's 11 vehicles. Which mean atleast 2 of the 4 all-new nameplates that will be crossovers will ALSO be hybridized. Maybe that's a better way to raise CAFE, BUT...

     

    I can imagine GM selling a decent number of Bolts...

     

    We'll have to wait and see...

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted

    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

    Ford employee?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    Personally, I don't think they have to make the jump to a full EV with 200+ miles of range quite yet. As long as they are still keeping up and improving on their technology and not sitting on their hands I don't see a problem..yet. They honestly might not see a market for 3+ full EVs yet(200+ mile range). 13 electrified vehicles says they aren't just sitting back and not pushing their own technology further and further. 

     

    Would I like to see a full EV Ford pushing 250miles of range? Of course. Maybe it just isn't profitable at this point, or they would lose too much to be worth it all the while they have the tech to keep up with the Tesla and Bolt..? Just typing as I think.. Maybe when they do release their first long-range EV it'll be a whopping 300mile range vehicle? 

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

    The BOLT is NOT a compact Hatch but a CUV. Big difference I think.

     

    Also, seems FORD is spending money on EV's, This bloomberg report quotes ford spending 4.5 Billion to bring 13 EVs and Hybrids to market by 2020. After all FORD just spent $199,950 according to filing documents for registration and bought the 64th Tesla Model X off a local LA coin dealer to get their hands on one.

     

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-20/ford-pays-199-950-before-taxes-for-tesla-s-64th-model-x-suv

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      All-new Ford Expedition – the smartest, most capable and most adaptable Expedition ever – provides families generous space, connectivity and smart new technology for their next adventures Flexible seating and storage solutions include second-row tip-and-slide seating that provides easy access to the third row even when child seats are installed; new, more powerful 3.5-liter EcoBoost® engine and class-exclusive 10-speed automatic transmission are expected to deliver the best towing capability of any full-size SUV Ford introduces the all-new Expedition today with an assist from the Dallas Cowboys in Texas – America’s best-selling full-size SUV market; Dallas firefighters join Ford to surprise a local first responder with an all-new Expedition DALLAS, Feb. 7, 2017 – For today’s active families, Ford introduces the all-new Expedition – the smartest, most capable and most adaptable Expedition ever – with technology to keep every passenger connected, more power for drivers, and more expected towing capability than any other full-size SUV.
      The all-new Expedition makes its debut today with an assist from the Dallas Cowboys in Texas – America’s best-selling full-size SUV market.
      “When Expedition was introduced 20 years ago, it set the standard for active families who simply needed a big and strong SUV to take them places,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford president of The Americas. “Today’s families want even more smart technology to help them cover more ground safely, more efficiently and more comfortably – all while staying connected to friends and family.”
      Smartest Expedition ever
      The all-new Expedition offers more driver-assist technology than any other full-size SUV.
      In addition, an all-new high-strength, aluminum-alloy body and redesigned high-strength steel frame form the foundation for Expedition’s rugged off-road and strong towing capabilities. Thanks to the use of advanced materials, the all-new Expedition saves up to 300 pounds, and the team reinvested that weight savings everywhere it counts to give customers more technology and convenience features than ever before.
      More than 40 features and driver-assist technologies new to Expedition help make the journey as enjoyable as the destination.
      These include class-exclusive enhanced active park assist to easily pull in and out of parking spots, as well as available 360-degree camera technology to help customers see more around their Expedition for easier parking.
      On the road, Expedition’s lane-keeping aid is designed to reduce unintentional drifting of the vehicle outside its intended lane, while adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go allows drivers to set a cruising speed, using radar and camera technology to monitor traffic to maintain a set distance between vehicles.
      Its collision avoidance detection system helps drivers avoid other vehicles or pedestrians, while available Blind Spot Information System helps monitor blind spots outside the driver’s immediate view.
      In addition, Expedition offers available new connectivity technologies and convenience features, including:
      Wireless charging; Expedition is Ford’s first vehicle to feature this system, which allows customers to place compatible mobile devices on an integrated charging pad conveniently located in the front center console Wi-Fi hotspot supports as many as 10 devices at once, up to 50 feet away from the vehicle Dual-headrest rear seat entertainment system provides a next-generation video experience that allows passengers to view their home cable programming on either of two video screens or hand-held devices SYNC® 3, with both Apple CarPlay™ and Android Auto™ capability, allows drivers to stay connected on the move SYNC Connect lets owners connect with the vehicle remotely using FordPass® to start, lock, unlock and locate their vehicle from anywhere, while also allowing access to important vehicle diagnostic information Power for passengers in every row, with four 12-volt power points, six USB chargers and a 110-volt power outlet that lets passengers stay charged and connected 12-speaker B&O PLAY premium audio system perfected by acoustic engineers for a sound experience even audiophiles will appreciate Advanced cargo manager with an adjustable shelf behind the third row lets owners create a storage space customized to whatever they’re hauling; even when parked on a hill, cargo won’t roll out the back of Expedition when the liftgate is opened Panoramic Vista Roof spans two rows, a feature not offered by any competitor Most capable Expedition ever
      Powered by a 3.5-liter EcoBoost® engine with standard Auto Start-Stop plus a class-exclusive new 10-speed automatic transmission, the all-new Expedition is the most powerful Expedition ever. A newly available electronic limited-slip differential on models with Intelligent 4WD enables improved off-road capability by sending power where it’s needed.
      More than 50 percent of Expedition customers value towing, and 15 percent tow weekly or monthly. That’s why the all-new Expedition offers Pro Trailer Backup Assist, which makes backing up a trailer as easy as turning a knob.
      Plus, an available hands-free liftgate makes loading cargo easy.
      Most adaptable Expedition ever
      The all-new Expedition has a roomy, flexible interior. With seating for up to eight people and their gear, this full-size SUV makes modern family adventures more comfortable during short and long trips alike.
      The all-new Expedition is the first full-size utility to feature a sliding second-row seat with tip-and-slide functionality, providing easy access to the third row without the need to first remove a child safety seat. Once in the third row, even adults will appreciate more legroom and reclining seats.
      Expedition’s second- and third-row seats can be quickly folded flat with the push of a button to open up a cargo area wide enough to handle 4x8-foot sheets of plywood and other gear, depending on cargo weight and load distribution, even with the liftgate closed.
      Even the drive is more adaptable, with Expedition’s all-new Terrain Management System™ that lets customers choose between drive modes for optimal vehicle handling in different conditions. This includes normal for around-town driving, sport for more spirited trips, tow/haul for improved towing and hauling performance, eco for enhanced fuel economy, grass/gravel/snow for loose terrain, sand for low traction situations, and mud/rut for uneven surfaces.
      Revealed today
      The all-new Ford Expedition is being unveiled at Ford Center at The Star with Stephen Jones, Dallas Cowboys chief operating officer and executive vice president.
      Last fall, Ford and the Dallas Cowboys surprised Dallas firefighters of Station 43 by refurbishing their station. Ford is now working with both the Cowboys and the fire station to surprise a local first responder with an all-new Expedition to continue his unstoppable level of service and enable new family adventures.
      The all-new Expedition is available in XLT, Limited and Platinum series. In addition, an XL version is available for fleet customers, from law enforcement to emergency services. To help customers choose the right amount of interior room for their families, all series are available on the extended-length Expedition MAX.
      The all-new Expedition is part of Ford’s plan to grow its SUV leadership with five new vehicles for North America in the next four years.
      The all-new Expedition arrives this fall. It is built at Kentucky Truck Plant in Louisville, Kentucky. 
       

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