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    200 Mile Range Focus EV? Not Happening


    • Ford Focus EV with 200 Miles? Uh, no.

    One of the key problems with most electric vehicles is the limited range on offer with many offering a max range of around 100 to 120 miles. Many believe that for electric vehicles to be in the mainstream, they need to offer a minimum of 200 Miles. But not Ford.

     

    Speaking with Automotive News, Ford's director of electrification programs and engineering Kevin Layden says the updated 2017 Focus EV with a range of 100 miles will cover the average commute for a driver.

     

    "I think right now with the launch of the Focus Electric at 100 miles, it is going to satisfy a big chunk of the population. It's going to be really affordable and a step up from where we are now," said Layden.

     

    The primary issue is the cost and weight of the batteries to achieve a 200 mile range. Ford doesn't see how an increase of possibly $6,000 and added weight would help. Layden says the lower range allows the blue oval to use a lighter and less expensive battery pack.

     

    But there is another factor possibly in play as to why Ford isn't going with a 200 mile range with the Focus EV, sales. The Focus EV is very slow seller for the brand, with only 1,717 models sold in 2015. Through March, Ford only has moved 257 Focus EVs (average of about 86 vehicles per month).

     

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    The Chevrolet Bolt....200 mile range plus.

    My money is on a 100% electric car getting me off of oil COMPLETELY while using Quebec's raging rivers to power my ride 99.99% cleanly. 

     

    And, while a 100 mile range is brave, it may not be brave enough.

    Ill GLADLY buy a Chevy Bolt!

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

    Yup.

     

    And...if Tesla slips up with the deliveries of the Model 3, I suspect that those people that havent signed on with Tesla just yet, is because they are awaiting to see what is happening with the deliveries, and if Tesla does indeed drops the ball in 2018-2019, they will end up in Chevy stores instead for the Bolt. And by that time, maybe the range will be closer to 250 miles...

     

    Tesla Model 3 pre-orders have shown that people DO want 100% pure EV and AT LEAST 200 mile range....

     

    Good Luck Ford with your Focus, but I think even the Volt will lean your clock.

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    My vote is for 200-250 mile range and eventually ready available fast charge time.

    Fords being pretty stupid on its electric plan

    If I were gm I would throw all the chips down to get volt and bolt powertrains in mainstream segments now. As in NOW .....compact and mid size sedans and compact and midsize SUVs.

    And a real tesla challenger from Cadillac.

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    I would guess that Ford is just maxed out on their vehicle engineering. The only mainstream automaker to do an extended-range electric is one of the biggest on the planet.

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

     

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/

     

    So realistically, It only wouldn't be sufficient for only about 11% of commuters. Which, doesn't account for people who don't work(thinking of stay at home mom/dad or the kids in high school/college) therefore they aren't driving 100+ miles a day running errands n such. 

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

     

    I will say that the BOLT and Tesla 3 will finally give many a reason to ditch at least 1 petrol auto in favor of EV. 200+ miles on these new batteries that show they can loose very little power in extreme cold or heat will allow people to go to work, decide to work out, run errands and even then maybe pick up a friend, etc. and still get home with plenty of charge left. 

     

    Then they plug it in before going to bed and BOOM, all good for the next day. Even if they do not do a bunch of stuff, but just work and home, having to only charge every 2nd or 3rd day is a welcome compared to daily charging on the Spark, Leaf, 500e etc. where they just do not hold up.

     

    Lucky for me plenty of public charging stations of 220 or DC fast charge all over the west coast. :)

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    That was a crazy lease deal, with the heat and use of AC, it seems the EV Focus is averaging about 50 miles a charge. Very interesting. I still think FORD is stupid for NOT going after a proper 200+ mile range EV. Excuses is all it is for them.

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    I think Ford looked at it, and saw no viable, as in profitable way to sell a electric car on near the average transaction price range.

     

    GM is not going to make money on the Bolt, it's going to be NPV negative. Tesla will make money by leveraging their brand to be able to do nickel and diming options.

     

    But, I think they are stupid for it, and I'd like to see more automakers take the risk to speed up the transition.

     

    For god sakes, the only reason why Sergio said he'll copy the Tesla formula if the model 3 produces, is because the Tesla patents are free for any entity to use, without licensing.

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted

    Focus may not be implementing a larger battery for more range, but that does not suggest they don't have something else in the future.  The 3 is 2 years out, maybe longer. I think if Ford is smart and prices the Focus EV accordingly, it will suffice for the vast majority of EV customers, and they will continue to sell it with virtually no profit. So, not a lot of incentive otherwise.

     

    And the next milestone in hybrid is ~60mpg, through improvements in ICE and battery electrical systems.  And PHEV will benefit as well, with longer range and better ICE FE.  And they will do it for less than the anxiety ridden BEV vehicles, which will only accentuate their limitations.

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    uhhhh how about electric BIKES?!?!? Haha

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/24/ford-mode-flex-ebike/

    https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2015/06/fwf/MoDeFlexEbike_FactSht.pdf

    Edited by ccap41
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    Look man, I know that you know I'm a fan of bicycles, but human-powered is just the way to go. It's simpler and more cost effective.

     

    The e-bikes are a hassle to maintain, and there's too many service problems.

     

    For one...the massive torque dump means that everyone just stays in the high gears. In a multi-gear drivetrain that means premature wear and tear on the single cogs. 

     

    And the replacement parts are DOA. Lack of availability, which means prices are ridiculous for a cassette of gears or the mid-drive front cog. Chains wear out because they use thinner gauges. 

     

    Electric bikes should not be multi-geared, but the manufacturers realize that such an E-Bike is done for if it's not charged. Then you have the massive behemoths that have terrible brakes. Like I've worked on these things and it's not fun - especially for the firms that guarantee lifetime basic service on them...

     

    Then there's the issue of wheel replacement, lack of standardized drivetrains - in-hub motors, centre-drive units, mid-drive, the Bosch systems requiring dis-assembly and sending to a service centre... just a hornet's nest of problems...

     

    Anyways....

     

    Well, the press release was more of a near-term solution, say 4-5 years.

     

    I like EVs when there's a Tesla badge on them - otherwise I still find them underwhelming, unless you're the kind that uses the lease techniques to get a deal on a vehicle that pays for itself.

     

    I think it's more important to hybridize anything that would not make for a good ev...like a pickup truck. But even then....I see a lot of model duplication.

     

    Guess what, a hybrid F150 means possibly a hybrid Expy and Navy. Hybrid Fusion and MKZ. Hybrid Focus or C-Max replacement. Given the Escape rides on the global C1 platform like the Focus, there's another one. And then supposedly we'll get a hybrid Edge, and MKX, and with MKC because of Escape.

     

    That's 11 vehicles. Which mean atleast 2 of the 4 all-new nameplates that will be crossovers will ALSO be hybridized. Maybe that's a better way to raise CAFE, BUT...

     

    I can imagine GM selling a decent number of Bolts...

     

    We'll have to wait and see...

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted

    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

    Ford employee?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    Personally, I don't think they have to make the jump to a full EV with 200+ miles of range quite yet. As long as they are still keeping up and improving on their technology and not sitting on their hands I don't see a problem..yet. They honestly might not see a market for 3+ full EVs yet(200+ mile range). 13 electrified vehicles says they aren't just sitting back and not pushing their own technology further and further. 

     

    Would I like to see a full EV Ford pushing 250miles of range? Of course. Maybe it just isn't profitable at this point, or they would lose too much to be worth it all the while they have the tech to keep up with the Tesla and Bolt..? Just typing as I think.. Maybe when they do release their first long-range EV it'll be a whopping 300mile range vehicle? 

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

    The BOLT is NOT a compact Hatch but a CUV. Big difference I think.

     

    Also, seems FORD is spending money on EV's, This bloomberg report quotes ford spending 4.5 Billion to bring 13 EVs and Hybrids to market by 2020. After all FORD just spent $199,950 according to filing documents for registration and bought the 64th Tesla Model X off a local LA coin dealer to get their hands on one.

     

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-20/ford-pays-199-950-before-taxes-for-tesla-s-64th-model-x-suv

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      “Electrifying our next generation of vehicles is core to our unwavering commitment to sustainability,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford president, The Americas. “By being a leader in electrified vehicles, we remain committed to delivering cars, trucks and SUVs that are better not only for our customers, but for the environment and society as well.”
      The all-new Ford Police Responder Hybrid Sedan – making its debut in Los Angeles and New York – is the industry’s first pursuit-rated hybrid police car. In addition, Ford is delivering:
      Another new hybrid police vehicle for North America All-new fully electric small SUV, coming by 2020, engineered to deliver an EPA-estimated range of at least 300 miles, to be sold in North America, Europe and Asia. Actual range will vary. Final EPA numbers not yet available. Hybrid-powered self-driving vehicle designed for commercial mobility services, starting in North America in 2021 Hybrid version of best-selling F-150 pickup, available by 2020, and sold in North America and the Middle East. F-150 Hybrid will offer powerful towing and payload capacity, and will operate as a mobile generator tough enough to power a job site Hybrid version of iconic Mustang that will deliver V8 power and even more low-end torque. Mustang Hybrid debuts in 2020 in North America, to start Transit Custom plug-in hybrid available in 2019 in Europe, engineered to help reduce operating costs in even the most congested streets Growing global demand
      As growing urban populations are overwhelming transportation systems and compromising air quality, first-time car buyers – including 50 percent of U.S. millennials – say they are interested in purchasing an electric car, according to a poll conducted by the Consumer Federation of America.
      Ford is at the forefront of driving electric vehicle technology and improving costs on batteries and motors for hybrids, plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles. As the company focuses on vehicles that deliver improved performance – such as the F-150 Hybrid with powerful towing and payload capacity plus the ability to operate as an on-board generator – Ford expects sales of hybrids, plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles to dramatically increase during the next decade.
      In fact, Ford predicts the auto industry will offer customers more hybrids, plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles than gasoline-powered vehicles within the next 15 years.  
      Ford partners with cities
      Ford sells the most police vehicles in the United States, with 63 percent market share. The company has been partnering with cities on custom law enforcement vehicles since the days of the Model T.
      The Police Responder Hybrid Sedan will help cities decrease emissions and offers the potential for significant fuel savings, both while driving and while idling. While driving, Ford’s patented hybrid technology is projected to provide EPA-estimated combined gas mileage of 38 miles per gallon – more than twice that of today’s Police Interceptor with 3.7-liter V6 with EPA-estimated 18 mpg combined. Actual mileage will vary. Final EPA-estimated ratings are not yet available. 
      While idling, the Police Responder Hybrid Sedan’s lithium-ion battery helps power the high electrical loads of a police vehicle, reducing engine run time and saving an estimated 0.27 gallons of fuel per hour. Police Responder Hybrid Sedan customers could see nearly $3,900 a year in potential fuel savings per vehicle relative to the Police Interceptor, if a police vehicle is driven 20,000 miles per year, runs two shifts per day, 365 days per year, idles 4.9 hours per 8-hour shift, and is fueled at an average gas price of $2.50/gallon. The Ford Police Responder online fuel calculator enables customers to determine how much they may potentially save.
      The new vehicle will be the first hybrid sedan with full pursuit capabilities. That means the car is certified by police agencies to be tough enough to handle police pursuits for longer periods at different speeds and over obstacles such as curbs and flooded intersections.
      The Police Responder Hybrid Sedan uses an efficient Atkinson-cycle 2.0-liter engine with an electric motor fed by an advanced lithium-ion battery. The hybrid is calibrated for law enforcement’s unique duty cycle and will run in battery-only mode up to 60 mph. The car automatically switches to maximum performance – with the engine and battery working at peak acceleration levels – when needed.
      “Our mission to create safe and healthy communities in Los Angeles is achieved through sustainable approaches in community policing, and that includes embracing new technologies,” said Charlie Beck, Los Angeles Police Department Chief. “Patrol vehicles are a police officer’s office, and we expect them to not only be economically and environmentally efficient, but also an effective tool for fighting crime in major metropolitan areas.”
      The Police Responder Hybrid Sedan can be ordered this spring and will be delivered to police departments nationwide next summer.
      This year, Ford also is testing a fleet of 20 Transit Connect hybrid taxi and van prototypes in demanding traffic conditions in New York and several other major U.S. cities.
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