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    200 Mile Range Focus EV? Not Happening


    • Ford Focus EV with 200 Miles? Uh, no.

    One of the key problems with most electric vehicles is the limited range on offer with many offering a max range of around 100 to 120 miles. Many believe that for electric vehicles to be in the mainstream, they need to offer a minimum of 200 Miles. But not Ford.

     

    Speaking with Automotive News, Ford's director of electrification programs and engineering Kevin Layden says the updated 2017 Focus EV with a range of 100 miles will cover the average commute for a driver.

     

    "I think right now with the launch of the Focus Electric at 100 miles, it is going to satisfy a big chunk of the population. It's going to be really affordable and a step up from where we are now," said Layden.

     

    The primary issue is the cost and weight of the batteries to achieve a 200 mile range. Ford doesn't see how an increase of possibly $6,000 and added weight would help. Layden says the lower range allows the blue oval to use a lighter and less expensive battery pack.

     

    But there is another factor possibly in play as to why Ford isn't going with a 200 mile range with the Focus EV, sales. The Focus EV is very slow seller for the brand, with only 1,717 models sold in 2015. Through March, Ford only has moved 257 Focus EVs (average of about 86 vehicles per month).

     

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    The Chevrolet Bolt....200 mile range plus.

    My money is on a 100% electric car getting me off of oil COMPLETELY while using Quebec's raging rivers to power my ride 99.99% cleanly. 

     

    And, while a 100 mile range is brave, it may not be brave enough.

    Ill GLADLY buy a Chevy Bolt!

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

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    Ford is being stupid and a horse with blinders. GM research has shown that most people if only commuting from work to home 100 or less if fine, but then what happens when you need to go to a doctors appointment and run some errands, you very well could fail to reach home unless you wait to charge somewhere. 

     

    Range is a valid concern and 200 miles has proven to satisfy that concern. Look at the pre bookings for Tesla 3 and with BOLT I expect many to not bother waiting for a car that might come at the end of 2017 as a 2018 model. Once people see just how good the BOLT is, I expect GM to sell everyone they build close if not for MSRP.

    Yup.

     

    And...if Tesla slips up with the deliveries of the Model 3, I suspect that those people that havent signed on with Tesla just yet, is because they are awaiting to see what is happening with the deliveries, and if Tesla does indeed drops the ball in 2018-2019, they will end up in Chevy stores instead for the Bolt. And by that time, maybe the range will be closer to 250 miles...

     

    Tesla Model 3 pre-orders have shown that people DO want 100% pure EV and AT LEAST 200 mile range....

     

    Good Luck Ford with your Focus, but I think even the Volt will lean your clock.

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    My vote is for 200-250 mile range and eventually ready available fast charge time.

    Fords being pretty stupid on its electric plan

    If I were gm I would throw all the chips down to get volt and bolt powertrains in mainstream segments now. As in NOW .....compact and mid size sedans and compact and midsize SUVs.

    And a real tesla challenger from Cadillac.

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    I would guess that Ford is just maxed out on their vehicle engineering. The only mainstream automaker to do an extended-range electric is one of the biggest on the planet.

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

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    While it would still hold me back from buying one I don't think it is a terrible decision. I mean isn't that what the first gen Volt was designed around, the average commute distance? I know the Volt has a gasoline "backup"(which, I think is one of the best designs out there in terms of electric cars). I mean I don't think I surpass or even get close to 100 miles of driving in a single day probably more than a couple times a year. If I actually had to drive to work it would be a little different story as my house is 35 miles from the parking garage so 70 miles would be eaten up just to and from work. But as the technology advances and cities adapt to EV life I would think more and more garages will have EV charging stations built in so people's need for longer range will actually decrease as tings advance. Weird way to look as it but it's true. The more and more EVs become mainstream the more and more charging locations will pop up and they'll be easier to access making the need for a 2-300 mile range virtually unnecessary for all but travelers. 

     

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/

     

    So realistically, It only wouldn't be sufficient for only about 11% of commuters. Which, doesn't account for people who don't work(thinking of stay at home mom/dad or the kids in high school/college) therefore they aren't driving 100+ miles a day running errands n such. 

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

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    They call it range anxiety for a reason. People want a large margin for error on driving range. And the range on electric cars is wildly temperature-sensitive, as well as remaining a pain in the butt to recharge away from home. Even a range of 200 miles will give a good chunk of potential customers the heebie-jeebies.

     

    I will say that the BOLT and Tesla 3 will finally give many a reason to ditch at least 1 petrol auto in favor of EV. 200+ miles on these new batteries that show they can loose very little power in extreme cold or heat will allow people to go to work, decide to work out, run errands and even then maybe pick up a friend, etc. and still get home with plenty of charge left. 

     

    Then they plug it in before going to bed and BOOM, all good for the next day. Even if they do not do a bunch of stuff, but just work and home, having to only charge every 2nd or 3rd day is a welcome compared to daily charging on the Spark, Leaf, 500e etc. where they just do not hold up.

     

    Lucky for me plenty of public charging stations of 220 or DC fast charge all over the west coast. :)

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    That was a crazy lease deal, with the heat and use of AC, it seems the EV Focus is averaging about 50 miles a charge. Very interesting. I still think FORD is stupid for NOT going after a proper 200+ mile range EV. Excuses is all it is for them.

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    I think Ford looked at it, and saw no viable, as in profitable way to sell a electric car on near the average transaction price range.

     

    GM is not going to make money on the Bolt, it's going to be NPV negative. Tesla will make money by leveraging their brand to be able to do nickel and diming options.

     

    But, I think they are stupid for it, and I'd like to see more automakers take the risk to speed up the transition.

     

    For god sakes, the only reason why Sergio said he'll copy the Tesla formula if the model 3 produces, is because the Tesla patents are free for any entity to use, without licensing.

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted · Report

    Focus may not be implementing a larger battery for more range, but that does not suggest they don't have something else in the future.  The 3 is 2 years out, maybe longer. I think if Ford is smart and prices the Focus EV accordingly, it will suffice for the vast majority of EV customers, and they will continue to sell it with virtually no profit. So, not a lot of incentive otherwise.

     

    And the next milestone in hybrid is ~60mpg, through improvements in ICE and battery electrical systems.  And PHEV will benefit as well, with longer range and better ICE FE.  And they will do it for less than the anxiety ridden BEV vehicles, which will only accentuate their limitations.

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

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    ccap41

    Posted (edited) · Report

    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    uhhhh how about electric BIKES?!?!? Haha

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/24/ford-mode-flex-ebike/

    https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2015/06/fwf/MoDeFlexEbike_FactSht.pdf

    Edited by ccap41
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    Look man, I know that you know I'm a fan of bicycles, but human-powered is just the way to go. It's simpler and more cost effective.

     

    The e-bikes are a hassle to maintain, and there's too many service problems.

     

    For one...the massive torque dump means that everyone just stays in the high gears. In a multi-gear drivetrain that means premature wear and tear on the single cogs. 

     

    And the replacement parts are DOA. Lack of availability, which means prices are ridiculous for a cassette of gears or the mid-drive front cog. Chains wear out because they use thinner gauges. 

     

    Electric bikes should not be multi-geared, but the manufacturers realize that such an E-Bike is done for if it's not charged. Then you have the massive behemoths that have terrible brakes. Like I've worked on these things and it's not fun - especially for the firms that guarantee lifetime basic service on them...

     

    Then there's the issue of wheel replacement, lack of standardized drivetrains - in-hub motors, centre-drive units, mid-drive, the Bosch systems requiring dis-assembly and sending to a service centre... just a hornet's nest of problems...

     

    Anyways....

     

    Well, the press release was more of a near-term solution, say 4-5 years.

     

    I like EVs when there's a Tesla badge on them - otherwise I still find them underwhelming, unless you're the kind that uses the lease techniques to get a deal on a vehicle that pays for itself.

     

    I think it's more important to hybridize anything that would not make for a good ev...like a pickup truck. But even then....I see a lot of model duplication.

     

    Guess what, a hybrid F150 means possibly a hybrid Expy and Navy. Hybrid Fusion and MKZ. Hybrid Focus or C-Max replacement. Given the Escape rides on the global C1 platform like the Focus, there's another one. And then supposedly we'll get a hybrid Edge, and MKX, and with MKC because of Escape.

     

    That's 11 vehicles. Which mean atleast 2 of the 4 all-new nameplates that will be crossovers will ALSO be hybridized. Maybe that's a better way to raise CAFE, BUT...

     

    I can imagine GM selling a decent number of Bolts...

     

    We'll have to wait and see...

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    Guest BuckNaKidd

    Posted · Report

    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

     

    So you know this because Ford is typically so forthcoming with future product......or you read between the lines of something that was not actually said?

    Ford employee?

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    Nah.... Ford is just not thinking of the future. 13 electrified vehicles planned, $4.5 billion dollars dedicated, and not one of them is a decent new electric car?!

     

    That's just lame.

    Personally, I don't think they have to make the jump to a full EV with 200+ miles of range quite yet. As long as they are still keeping up and improving on their technology and not sitting on their hands I don't see a problem..yet. They honestly might not see a market for 3+ full EVs yet(200+ mile range). 13 electrified vehicles says they aren't just sitting back and not pushing their own technology further and further. 

     

    Would I like to see a full EV Ford pushing 250miles of range? Of course. Maybe it just isn't profitable at this point, or they would lose too much to be worth it all the while they have the tech to keep up with the Tesla and Bolt..? Just typing as I think.. Maybe when they do release their first long-range EV it'll be a whopping 300mile range vehicle? 

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

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    It's purely capital budgeting reasons. EVs are still a sinkhole for cash and there's yet to be a proven case for an affordable EV being able to pay for itself. Or even an affordable EV worth considering after all.

     

    The Tesla 3 is their most affordable car, but it really isn't affordable.

     

    The Bolt is somewhat a better deal for the kit you get, but it's otherwise mundane and a practical compact hatch. A RWD sedan doesn't compete with this.

     

    Or somehow let's say that a Ford C-Max and Bmw 330e compete. Yeah, neither sell well. 

     

    I think Ford is just waiting. I think it's alright. It's a fair move. But I also think it's lame and gutless.

    The BOLT is NOT a compact Hatch but a CUV. Big difference I think.

     

    Also, seems FORD is spending money on EV's, This bloomberg report quotes ford spending 4.5 Billion to bring 13 EVs and Hybrids to market by 2020. After all FORD just spent $199,950 according to filing documents for registration and bought the 64th Tesla Model X off a local LA coin dealer to get their hands on one.

     

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-20/ford-pays-199-950-before-taxes-for-tesla-s-64th-model-x-suv

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      Barry Barker, Executive Director, Transit Authority of River City: “TARC now has largest deployment of Proterra battery-electric buses east of the Mississippi. Providing both environmental benefits and cost savings, these buses are a symbol of Louisville’s sustainability efforts. We are proud of these positive impacts and to call Proterra a partner, as they pass this key milestone in their journey as the foremost transport innovator in the world.”
      Doran Barnes, Executive Director at Foothill Transit: “We just surpassed one million miles of revenue service with our battery-electric Proterra fleet, and we’re looking forward to many more miles to come. Since our first EV bus procurement with Proterra in 2010, we knew that zero-emission buses were the future of mass transit. Now, with the new Catalyst E2, this vision is a reality.  We’re excited by the possibilities of an all-electric future.”
      Jonathan Church, Administrator at Worcester Regional Transit Authority (WRTA): “More and more, we’re witnessing our neighbor agencies consider all-electric buses, as they see how well our Proterra buses have weathered some of the ugliest Northeast snow storms. We look forward to continuing our partnership with Proterra as their technology continues to expand within North America.”
      2.6 Million Miles and Counting
      With annual sales already 220% higher than 2015, Proterra is experiencing a breakthrough year in the mass transit sector and expects the debut of the Catalyst E2 series to only further magnify this success. Doubling production in 2017 to serve unprecedented customer demand, Proterra will have both of its manufacturing lines in full operation in Greenville, S.C. and the City of Industry, Calif. To date, Proterra buses across the United States have completed over 2.5 million miles of revenue service, displacing 540,000 gallons of diesel, and eliminating over 10 million pounds of carbon emissions.
      “Proterra’s primary goal has always been to create a purpose-built, high-performance electric vehicle that can serve every single transit route in the United States. Today, with the unveiling of the Catalyst E2 Series, that goal has been achieved,” said Ryan Popple, CEO of Proterra. “The question is no longer who will be an early adopter of this technology, but rather who will be the last to commit to a future of clean, efficient, and sustainable mobility. With the Catalyst E2 offering a no-compromise replacement for all fossil fuel buses, battery-electric vehicles have now broken down the final barrier to widespread market adoption.”
      About Proterra:
      Proterra is a leader in the design and manufacture of zero-emission vehicles that enable bus fleet operators to eliminate the dependency on fossil fuels and to significantly reduce operating costs while delivering clean, quiet transportation to the community. Proterra has sold more than 312 vehicles to 35 different municipal, university, and commercial transit agencies throughout North America. Proterra’s configurable EV platform, battery and charging options make its buses well suited for a wide range of transit and campus routes. With unmatched durability and energy efficiency based on rigorous U.S. certification testing, Proterra products are proudly designed, engineered and manufactured in America, with offices in Silicon Valley, South Carolina, and Los Angeles. For more information, visit: http://www.proterra.com and follow us on Twitter @Proterra_Inc.
      Proterra Media Contact:
      pr@proterra.com
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