General Motors Agrees To $900 Million Settlement Over Ignition Switch

Whatever one's opinions were on the issue, it is an appropriate time for closure. Given the precedent set by the fine levied against Toyota the punishment seems appropriate.

I agree that this is time to put this to rest and move forward. Just at Toyota paid 1.2 Billion for their recall issues, this is inline with this recall issue.

I expect FCA to pay about the same amount due to the lack of follow through on their recalls especially in regards to the deaths by fire on the gas tank issues.

Wow.

That's a lot of $$$

At least they can put it behind them.  Well, most of it.

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

Oh there is certainly a uproar.  From the link below,

"Hundreds of deaths resulted from GM's conduct, and yet they simply write a check and go home. This is a remarkably jaw-dropping and incredibly sad result."

- Robert Hilliard

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/17/safety-advocates-disgusted-justice-department-gm-deal/

Whatever one's opinions were on the issue, it is an appropriate time for closure. Given the precedent set by the fine levied against Toyota the punishment seems appropriate.

In my opinion, closure would be those individuals not working their anymore..or auto company ever again.

This is no different than any of the other big defect issues covered up. Nor did anyone go to jail from the Power issues in California that made the Erin Brockovich story so big.

We have had decades of these cover ups and people expect it to change?

This is no different than any of the other big defect issues covered up. Nor did anyone go to jail from the Power issues in California that made the Erin Brockovich story so big.

 

We have had decades of these cover ups and people expect it to change?

Did they lose their jobs?

Possibly. Who knows?

But to hear such inanities from folks who root for the brand that produced the Pinto and Explorer makes me want to vomit.

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

 

 

Oh there is certainly a uproar.  From the link below,

 

"Hundreds of deaths resulted from GM's conduct, and yet they simply write a check and go home. This is a remarkably jaw-dropping and incredibly sad result."

- Robert Hilliard

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/17/safety-advocates-disgusted-justice-department-gm-deal/

Well here is the deal.

GM did wrong with the Cheap switch and should be penalized for it. Their damaged culture made this an easy thing to hide in such a large company. Odds are one or two people screwed up and covered their asses. There were some people let go but many had already left with the bail out so some may have already been gone.

Now where I do not agree with the settlements is where drivers who died because of their own actions after the ignition cut out. The simple facts are this. The columns do not lock and the car generally can be turned enough to get to the side of the road. Second the Air Bags are a secondary restraint and need to be used with a belt. Brakes were still operational as with the check valve in the booster you get 2-3 stops with full power assist. Finally a driver with all their faculties generally can shift to neutral and restart the car. Many of these accidents could have been avoided and many of the deaths were due to the choices and condition they put themselves in, My point in these cases is GM should share responsibility but if the driver was impaired, not belted and or speeding or in an out of control condition they also too should share in this.

To be this is like the case we had locally where a driver of a Blazer hit a tree drunk at 90 MPH and it caught fire and burned him to death. GM was not allowed to add in the driver was drunk at the time of the accident and the fact that hitting a tree at 90 MPH could result in a fired that could kill a person impaired.

This was a case where a company did screw up but in many cases so did the driver and many times it directly resulted in the difference of them living and dying. The ignition may have contributed but the 70 MPH in a 25 zone, drunk and no belt was the life and death part of the equation.

The one good thing that did come from this for GM is the fact this went down around the time Mary was fighting the old Culture people still in GM after the bail out. This pretty much shut them down and let her make the needed changed to fix many of these bad culture things. Lutz started the purge and Mary gain a lot of traction once this issue came up. Because of it today GM is farther along with the correction to their corporate culture than they would have been with out it. It is sad it took this but at least some good came of it and it will help prevent this from happening again;. It is good when a company does become better due to a crisis but too often they don't.

Not all customers are innocent and not all corporations are corrupt. Each side has their share of good and bad. That is just human nature and the right culture will help keep it in check. The GM culture was so bad they would often time do more damage to themselves.

Also to bring people to trial is not easy in cases like this. Odds are the evidence to all involved may be circumstantial at best or we would have seen the government take specific people to task. We have to remember this is the company so incompetent as recent as 2005 when asked by Lutz why they could not make panel gaps as well as Hyundai he was told we can but we were never told to do it nor could they ask. Yes it was that bad inside back then. Not an excuse just a reflection of what was going on and how bad it was. They could not even take care of themselves.

There's a lot of complexity to how a corporation is organized that makes it very difficult to actually charge employees of a corporation found to be the actual perpetrators of the offences charged to the entity. Only in the most hideous and heinous of crimes is it possible to actually separate the employees or any related party within the entity from the entity itself.

Limited liability makes it that it is the corporation itself as an entity that gets blamed first. Then the case is made of the groups that comprise the entity.

 

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

+1

 

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

 

 

Oh there is certainly a uproar.  From the link below,

 

"Hundreds of deaths resulted from GM's conduct, and yet they simply write a check and go home. This is a remarkably jaw-dropping and incredibly sad result."

- Robert Hilliard

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/17/safety-advocates-disgusted-justice-department-gm-deal/

In full agreement.

 

Writing a check and going home?

GM as a corporation was grilled night and day with this fiasco...

Many people wont buy a GM vehicle every again...

The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6...

The people that did the damage are running around free...

2 different things...

And THAT is why I downvoted...

A company has NOTHING to do with ANY good or bad...it is the people that run the company...and like Hyper mentioned...most if not all ppeople that had something to do with this already left the company...

Again...why I downvoted...because this burnt LS7 dude is one biased poster...

ANYTHING to denounce GM...

I wonder if you commented on the latest corrupt corporation thread over at VW???!!!

Nah...just ignore the VW thing...

Its only American car companies and especially GM that screw the American consumer and its only American car companies especially GM that circumvent American laws just to beefen up the bottom line...

And no...deaths are deaths and circumventing software programs to allow to pollute are 2 different things...but...one is not more evil when corruption is concerned...

But because we have a biased poster in da house...I decided to make him and VW an example...

And no...not because "everybody does it"  that GM or VW CEOs should be let free with a slap on their wrists....and not because VW is German and GM is American that we should hate on VW more than GM or vice versa....

What Im trying to say that..is...instead of looking at a specific car company to crucify...why dont we focus on the stupid corrupt corporation culture in general and stop THAT culture from repeating itself time and time again...  the PEOPLE...the HUMANS involved!!!

The way you agreed to those stupid articles...its like you are ready to boycott GM..and ONLY GM...well....start boycotting just about 90% of ALL corporations...because one way or other...the people that run ALL corporations are one way or other...CORRUPT...from hidden defects that kill people...to sexual assaulting fellow employees...to racial/gender/sexual/religious discrimination...

There's a lot of complexity to how a corporation is organized that makes it very difficult to actually charge employees of a corporation found to be the actual perpetrators of the offences charged to the entity. Only in the most hideous and heinous of crimes is it possible to actually separate the employees or any related party within the entity from the entity itself.

 

Limited liability makes it that it is the corporation itself as an entity that gets blamed first. Then the case is made of the groups that comprise the entity.

No its not...

politicians have made such laws...the ones that are just as corrupt as the people that run those companies...just reverse the laws and bring back the political power to the average citizen...

And you know who actually changes that?

The average citizen!!!

Except the average North American citizen couldnt be bothered...

A country like Greece however...the people...forced the entire European Community to re-think its strategy on the bailouts and the Austerity measures forced upon them...with a fast referendum...that had to take place...and they rejected what was offered to them...which forced big wig banks guys and German politicians to re-think what it is they were doing...when they were THREATENING to dismantle Greece if they went on with a referendum...

Power to the people...is something we North Americans yell constantly...but we do nothing about it!!!

Of course...burnt LS7 downvotes...

Chicken shyte...offer a rebuttal...

But no...like a baby...like a spoiled modern society self important dweeb...stamp on the ground and downvote...

I think I found you your life's soul mate...

Go to Vancouver Island...she is awaiting for you...

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

+1

“GM killed over 100 people by knowingly putting a defective ignition switch into over 1 million vehicles. Yet no one from GM went to jail or was even charged with criminal homicide. This shows a weakness in the law not a weakness in the facts," said Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety.

 

 

That line stands out to me and bothers me the most. Knowing those people are still employed AND never faced any criminal charges after KNOWINGLY putting a defective ignition switch in.

 

 

Oh there is certainly a uproar.  From the link below,

 

"Hundreds of deaths resulted from GM's conduct, and yet they simply write a check and go home. This is a remarkably jaw-dropping and incredibly sad result."

- Robert Hilliard

 http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/17/safety-advocates-disgusted-justice-department-gm-deal/

In full agreement.

 

Writing a check and going home?

 

GM as a corporation was grilled night and day with this fiasco...

 

Many people wont buy a GM vehicle every again...

The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6...

 

The people that did the damage are running around free...

 

2 different things...

And THAT is why I downvoted...

 

A company has NOTHING to do with ANY good or bad...it is the people that run the company...and like Hyper mentioned...most if not all ppeople that had something to do with this already left the company...

 

Again...why I downvoted...because this burnt LS7 dude is one biased poster...

 

ANYTHING to denounce GM...

 

I wonder if you commented on the latest corrupt corporation thread over at VW???!!!

 

Nah...just ignore the VW thing...

Its only American car companies and especially GM that screw the American consumer and its only American car companies especially GM that circumvent American laws just to beefen up the bottom line...

 

 

And no...deaths are deaths and circumventing software programs to allow to pollute are 2 different things...but...one is not more evil when corruption is concerned...

 

But because we have a biased poster in da house...I decided to make him and VW an example...

 

And no...not because "everybody does it"  that GM or VW CEOs should be let free with a slap on their wrists....and not because VW is German and GM is American that we should hate on VW more than GM or vice versa....

 

What Im trying to say that..is...instead of looking at a specific car company to crucify...why dont we focus on the stupid corrupt corporation culture in general and stop THAT culture from repeating itself time and time again...  the PEOPLE...the HUMANS involved!!!

 

The way you agreed to those stupid articles...its like you are ready to boycott GM..and ONLY GM...well....start boycotting just about 90% of ALL corporations...because one way or other...the people that run ALL corporations are one way or other...CORRUPT...from hidden defects that kill people...to sexual assaulting fellow employees...to racial/gender/sexual/religious discrimination...

I have to kind of disagree with the line(sorry quoting and $h! is nearly impossible from a phone so I apologize if I botched editing what I'm even quoting) "The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6..." it kind of does because while Hyper and you say "most if not all" of the employees from that situation are gone that isn't really a complete known. It is just an assumption/guess. Which, in my opinion, is the ONLY thing that bothers me still. They are paying their financial dues yada yada yada.. I understand that. But those people who KNEW they were defective parts(which there were people that knew) shouldn't have a job there anymore, for sure. Period. I understand things come from the top, which has changed, but there were still people who KNEW they were defective. Again, this is just my opinion. But I know that knowing they are still there... There are too many other car companies right now to choose from making great cars to give them a leg up at all. I cannot and will not completely shut them out but it's just another part that grinds my gears about GM.

 

I have to kind of disagree with the line(sorry quoting and $h! is nearly impossible from a phone so I apologize if I botched editing what I'm even quoting) "The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6..." it kind of does because while Hyper and you say "most if not all" of the employees from that situation are gone that isn't really a complete known. It is just an assumption/guess. Which, in my opinion, is the ONLY thing that bothers me still. They are paying their financial dues yada yada yada.. I understand that. But those people who KNEW they were defective parts(which there were people that knew) shouldn't have a job there anymore, for sure. Period. I understand things come from the top, which has changed, but there were still people who KNEW they were defective. Again, this is just my opinion. But I know that knowing they are still there... There are too many other car companies right now to choose from making great cars to give them a leg up at all. I cannot and will not completely shut them out but it's just another part that grinds my gears about GM.

 

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there...

BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford...

OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s...

Toyota...Unintended accelration.

Honda...Takata...airbags.

Audi...unintended acceleration

VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious...

So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies...

To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me...

Olds, I never meant to vouch for Limited Liability. It's pretty clear from Ccap's post. If any of those employees come forward with their previous knowledge of it; there would be a lot of cries for accessory charges.

Them being quiet is what is keeping a potential floodgate of litigation (yes even more) closed. 

Anyways, lets move on!

...If someone could model the effective Nox emissions of the average VW Tdi model and the effective death per ton of Nox emmisions (various health complications. (There's too many variables to control really, but for the basis of talking points)....

It'd be interesting if VW would not only be fined for the emissions violations but for the latent damage that the vastly higher than expected emissions cause. I mean it's a real phenomenon; thousands of people die because of all the respiratory problems caused by it. 

Dear Burnt LS7...

You could downvote this too...

It just show hw much of a loser you really are...

You stated an opinion...I countered...and no other rebuttal...

Why is that?

because it shows you are a weasel...a biased poster against one bloody company...

I dont care....GM or Ford or Honda...they are all corporations with their CEOs thinking about THEIR own bottom line and THEIR own well being...not mine...

Be a stooge in hatin' GM and lovin' whatever company makes you cream your pants....and stooge you are...because you have no intelligence to back up ANY opinion you may have...and THAT is sad...

I have to kind of disagree with the line(sorry quoting and $h! is nearly impossible from a phone so I apologize if I botched editing what I'm even quoting) "The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6..." it kind of does because while Hyper and you say "most if not all" of the employees from that situation are gone that isn't really a complete known. It is just an assumption/guess. Which, in my opinion, is the ONLY thing that bothers me still. They are paying their financial dues yada yada yada.. I understand that. But those people who KNEW they were defective parts(which there were people that knew) shouldn't have a job there anymore, for sure. Period. I understand things come from the top, which has changed, but there were still people who KNEW they were defective. Again, this is just my opinion. But I know that knowing they are still there... There are too many other car companies right now to choose from making great cars to give them a leg up at all. I cannot and will not completely shut them out but it's just another part that grinds my gears about GM.

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there...

 

BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford...

 

 

OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s...

Toyota...Unintended accelration.

Honda...Takata...airbags.

Audi...unintended acceleration

VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious...

 

So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies...

 

To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me...

You are correct but I believe in the Article the way it was worded made it sound like they are still working there as the employees back in the 70's I have absolutely no clue about. I have said it before about the GM situation that..time heals all wounds. And I believe it with this as well. Well, ford has airbag issues as well, I believe. I think I have a current outstanding recall for an air bag. It just isn't one of the takata ones. With those other problems was their proof that said employees KNEW about the problem while continuing to use the part in the cars? Or was it just a big fck up that was discovered later? Honestly, I do not know that answer. But that is my gripe. They knew and possibly still have a job there.

Olds, I never meant to vouch for Limited Liability. It's pretty clear from Ccap's post. If any of those employees come forward with their previous knowledge of it; there would be a lot of cries for accessory charges.

 

Them being quiet is what is keeping a potential floodgate of litigation (yes even more) closed. 

 

Anyways, lets move on!

 

...If someone could model the effective Nox emissions of the average VW Tdi model and the effective death per ton of Nox emmisions (various health complications. (There's too many variables to control really, but for the basis of talking points)....

 

It'd be interesting if VW would not only be fined for the emissions violations but for the latent damage that the vastly higher than expected emissions cause. I mean it's a real phenomenon; thousands of people die because of all the respiratory problems caused by it.

That is a very interesting way to look at that. I like it. It's a regulation for a reason. That one may take much more work to prove a death but you can guarantee people are looking into it now.

Then again, the `~$38,000 dollar fine per vehicle probably accounts for the latent damage.

I mean $18 billion dollars would bankrupt VW, but if they could cough up the dough... 

Let's continue this convo in the VW thread.

 

 

I have to kind of disagree with the line(sorry quoting and $h! is nearly impossible from a phone so I apologize if I botched editing what I'm even quoting) "The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6..." it kind of does because while Hyper and you say "most if not all" of the employees from that situation are gone that isn't really a complete known. It is just an assumption/guess. Which, in my opinion, is the ONLY thing that bothers me still. They are paying their financial dues yada yada yada.. I understand that. But those people who KNEW they were defective parts(which there were people that knew) shouldn't have a job there anymore, for sure. Period. I understand things come from the top, which has changed, but there were still people who KNEW they were defective. Again, this is just my opinion. But I know that knowing they are still there... There are too many other car companies right now to choose from making great cars to give them a leg up at all. I cannot and will not completely shut them out but it's just another part that grinds my gears about GM.

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there...

 

BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford...

 

 

OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s...

Toyota...Unintended accelration.

Honda...Takata...airbags.

Audi...unintended acceleration

VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious...

 

So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies...

 

To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me...

You are correct but I believe in the Article the way it was worded made it sound like they are still working there as the employees back in the 70's I have absolutely no clue about. I have said it before about the GM situation that..time heals all wounds. And I believe it with this as well. Well, ford has airbag issues as well, I believe. I think I have a current outstanding recall for an air bag. It just isn't one of the takata ones. With those other problems was their proof that said employees KNEW about the problem while continuing to use the part in the cars? Or was it just a big fck up that was discovered later? Honestly, I do not know that answer. But that is my gripe. They knew and possibly still have a job there.

 

Yeah...Ford has an airbag recall....My Fusion has it too..

Is yours about some sort of module being defective and in case of a crash...the airbag might not deploy?

Maybe they are working at GM still...

This is why I said...instead of "boycotting" GM, why dont we actually fight to get these guys FIRED from GM...and put on trial?

Not only GM employees ...Delco employess too...because I remember even some engineers at Delco KNEW that the part would fail...told their bosses, but their bosses did nothing also...because contract is too big to deny...everybody it seems was thinking in terms of money...

EVERYBODY HAS A MORAL OBLIGATION.  The excuse of...I was just doing my job...should not fly in a circumstance like this one.

We..have turned into a society of zombies only looking at money and material objects...

Glad to see some sensible posts on this topic. Let's not forget, as some will now try and misdirect our attention and focus on VW and their criminal behavior as of late, that GM was once fined a then record $45 million in 1995 for what amounted to practically the same offense. 

Glad to see some sensible posts on this topic. Let's not forget, as some will now try and misdirect our attention and focus on VW and their criminal behavior as of late, that GM was once fined a then record $45 million in 1995 for what amounted to practically the same offense. 

Glad to see that you are still a hater...

Here...I nice photograph of a nice VW Beetle approx 80 years ago...

I think that what VW has done in history is a far worse crime than what GM has done...

WHAT???

Yup...VW Beetle underneath those military clothes...

I see that you dont want to let go of GM's crap...Im curious though...have you forgiven and forgave VW?

I see that Burnt LS7 is going on a downvoting spree with me...

Chicken shyte!!!

The thing is Burnt LS7 Rod...as in Nimrod...you cant change history...oh...you could downvote me all you want...but that Hitler fella...yeah...he and that Porsche fella...they designed the Beetle first to be a WEAPON of WAR...then to be a Volks...Wagen...people's car...

PS: No amount of downvotes changes that...

Well here is the deal.

 

GM did wrong with the Cheap switch and should be penalized for it. Their damaged culture made this an easy thing to hide in such a large company. Odds are one or two people screwed up and covered their asses. There were some people let go but many had already left with the bail out so some may have already been gone.

 

Now where I do not agree with the settlements is where drivers who died because of their own actions after the ignition cut out. The simple facts are this. The columns do not lock and the car generally can be turned enough to get to the side of the road. Second the Air Bags are a secondary restraint and need to be used with a belt. Brakes were still operational as with the check valve in the booster you get 2-3 stops with full power assist. Finally a driver with all their faculties generally can shift to neutral and restart the car. Many of these accidents could have been avoided and many of the deaths were due to the choices and condition they put themselves in, My point in these cases is GM should share responsibility but if the driver was impaired, not belted and or speeding or in an out of control condition they also too should share in this.

To be this is like the case we had locally where a driver of a Blazer hit a tree drunk at 90 MPH and it caught fire and burned him to death. GM was not allowed to add in the driver was drunk at the time of the accident and the fact that hitting a tree at 90 MPH could result in a fired that could kill a person impaired.

 

This was a case where a company did screw up but in many cases so did the driver and many times it directly resulted in the difference of them living and dying. The ignition may have contributed but the 70 MPH in a 25 zone, drunk and no belt was the life and death part of the equation.

 

The one good thing that did come from this for GM is the fact this went down around the time Mary was fighting the old Culture people still in GM after the bail out. This pretty much shut them down and let her make the needed changed to fix many of these bad culture things. Lutz started the purge and Mary gain a lot of traction once this issue came up. Because of it today GM is farther along with the correction to their corporate culture than they would have been with out it. It is sad it took this but at least some good came of it and it will help prevent this from happening again;. It is good when a company does become better due to a crisis but too often they don't.

 

Not all customers are innocent and not all corporations are corrupt. Each side has their share of good and bad. That is just human nature and the right culture will help keep it in check. The GM culture was so bad they would often time do more damage to themselves.

 

Also to bring people to trial is not easy in cases like this. Odds are the evidence to all involved may be circumstantial at best or we would have seen the government take specific people to task. We have to remember this is the company so incompetent as recent as 2005 when asked by Lutz why they could not make panel gaps as well as Hyundai he was told we can but we were never told to do it nor could they ask. Yes it was that bad inside back then. Not an excuse just a reflection of what was going on and how bad it was. They could not even take care of themselves.

Well said.

Nailed it perfectly. Well done.

I actually agreed with your initial post here, oldshurt442. The cheerleading... not so much. But the screen-name helps explains matters a bit. Anyhow, since we're going down memory lane now:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm

Well here is the deal.

 

GM did wrong with the Cheap switch and should be penalized for it. Their damaged culture made this an easy thing to hide in such a large company. Odds are one or two people screwed up and covered their asses. There were some people let go but many had already left with the bail out so some may have already been gone.

 

Now where I do not agree with the settlements is where drivers who died because of their own actions after the ignition cut out. The simple facts are this. The columns do not lock and the car generally can be turned enough to get to the side of the road. Second the Air Bags are a secondary restraint and need to be used with a belt. Brakes were still operational as with the check valve in the booster you get 2-3 stops with full power assist. Finally a driver with all their faculties generally can shift to neutral and restart the car. Many of these accidents could have been avoided and many of the deaths were due to the choices and condition they put themselves in, My point in these cases is GM should share responsibility but if the driver was impaired, not belted and or speeding or in an out of control condition they also too should share in this.

To be this is like the case we had locally where a driver of a Blazer hit a tree drunk at 90 MPH and it caught fire and burned him to death. GM was not allowed to add in the driver was drunk at the time of the accident and the fact that hitting a tree at 90 MPH could result in a fired that could kill a person impaired.

 

This was a case where a company did screw up but in many cases so did the driver and many times it directly resulted in the difference of them living and dying. The ignition may have contributed but the 70 MPH in a 25 zone, drunk and no belt was the life and death part of the equation.

 

The one good thing that did come from this for GM is the fact this went down around the time Mary was fighting the old Culture people still in GM after the bail out. This pretty much shut them down and let her make the needed changed to fix many of these bad culture things. Lutz started the purge and Mary gain a lot of traction once this issue came up. Because of it today GM is farther along with the correction to their corporate culture than they would have been with out it. It is sad it took this but at least some good came of it and it will help prevent this from happening again;. It is good when a company does become better due to a crisis but too often they don't.

 

Not all customers are innocent and not all corporations are corrupt. Each side has their share of good and bad. That is just human nature and the right culture will help keep it in check. The GM culture was so bad they would often time do more damage to themselves.

 

Also to bring people to trial is not easy in cases like this. Odds are the evidence to all involved may be circumstantial at best or we would have seen the government take specific people to task. We have to remember this is the company so incompetent as recent as 2005 when asked by Lutz why they could not make panel gaps as well as Hyundai he was told we can but we were never told to do it nor could they ask. Yes it was that bad inside back then. Not an excuse just a reflection of what was going on and how bad it was. They could not even take care of themselves.

Outstanding assessment and I wish the news would cover these cases in this manner.

The sensationalism to get ratings has made most reporters have no honor nor any integrity. 

 

Well here is the deal.

 

GM did wrong with the Cheap switch and should be penalized for it. Their damaged culture made this an easy thing to hide in such a large company. Odds are one or two people screwed up and covered their asses. There were some people let go but many had already left with the bail out so some may have already been gone.

 

Now where I do not agree with the settlements is where drivers who died because of their own actions after the ignition cut out. The simple facts are this. The columns do not lock and the car generally can be turned enough to get to the side of the road. Second the Air Bags are a secondary restraint and need to be used with a belt. Brakes were still operational as with the check valve in the booster you get 2-3 stops with full power assist. Finally a driver with all their faculties generally can shift to neutral and restart the car. Many of these accidents could have been avoided and many of the deaths were due to the choices and condition they put themselves in, My point in these cases is GM should share responsibility but if the driver was impaired, not belted and or speeding or in an out of control condition they also too should share in this.

To be this is like the case we had locally where a driver of a Blazer hit a tree drunk at 90 MPH and it caught fire and burned him to death. GM was not allowed to add in the driver was drunk at the time of the accident and the fact that hitting a tree at 90 MPH could result in a fired that could kill a person impaired.

 

This was a case where a company did screw up but in many cases so did the driver and many times it directly resulted in the difference of them living and dying. The ignition may have contributed but the 70 MPH in a 25 zone, drunk and no belt was the life and death part of the equation.

 

The one good thing that did come from this for GM is the fact this went down around the time Mary was fighting the old Culture people still in GM after the bail out. This pretty much shut them down and let her make the needed changed to fix many of these bad culture things. Lutz started the purge and Mary gain a lot of traction once this issue came up. Because of it today GM is farther along with the correction to their corporate culture than they would have been with out it. It is sad it took this but at least some good came of it and it will help prevent this from happening again;. It is good when a company does become better due to a crisis but too often they don't.

 

Not all customers are innocent and not all corporations are corrupt. Each side has their share of good and bad. That is just human nature and the right culture will help keep it in check. The GM culture was so bad they would often time do more damage to themselves.

 

Also to bring people to trial is not easy in cases like this. Odds are the evidence to all involved may be circumstantial at best or we would have seen the government take specific people to task. We have to remember this is the company so incompetent as recent as 2005 when asked by Lutz why they could not make panel gaps as well as Hyundai he was told we can but we were never told to do it nor could they ask. Yes it was that bad inside back then. Not an excuse just a reflection of what was going on and how bad it was. They could not even take care of themselves.

Outstanding assessment and I wish the news would cover these cases in this manner.

 

The sensationalism to get ratings has made most reporters have no honor nor any integrity. 

 

Agreed to both quoted posts.

It just sucks what these news outlets will go to get ratings. How they can twist nearly any story to us and we will jump on the bandwagon because the only bit of information we know is from them, which SHOULD be reliable.

Lets also not forget the history of BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche. They have very dirty past.

 

 

 

I have to kind of disagree with the line(sorry quoting and $h! is nearly impossible from a phone so I apologize if I botched editing what I'm even quoting) "The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6..." it kind of does because while Hyper and you say "most if not all" of the employees from that situation are gone that isn't really a complete known. It is just an assumption/guess. Which, in my opinion, is the ONLY thing that bothers me still. They are paying their financial dues yada yada yada.. I understand that. But those people who KNEW they were defective parts(which there were people that knew) shouldn't have a job there anymore, for sure. Period. I understand things come from the top, which has changed, but there were still people who KNEW they were defective. Again, this is just my opinion. But I know that knowing they are still there... There are too many other car companies right now to choose from making great cars to give them a leg up at all. I cannot and will not completely shut them out but it's just another part that grinds my gears about GM.

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there...

 

BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford...

 

 

OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s...

Toyota...Unintended accelration.

Honda...Takata...airbags.

Audi...unintended acceleration

VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious...

 

So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies...

 

To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me...

You are correct but I believe in the Article the way it was worded made it sound like they are still working there as the employees back in the 70's I have absolutely no clue about. I have said it before about the GM situation that..time heals all wounds. And I believe it with this as well. Well, ford has airbag issues as well, I believe. I think I have a current outstanding recall for an air bag. It just isn't one of the takata ones. With those other problems was their proof that said employees KNEW about the problem while continuing to use the part in the cars? Or was it just a big fck up that was discovered later? Honestly, I do not know that answer. But that is my gripe. They knew and possibly still have a job there.

 

Yeah...Ford has an airbag recall....My Fusion has it too..

 

Is yours about some sort of module being defective and in case of a crash...the airbag might not deploy?

 

Maybe they are working at GM still...

 

This is why I said...instead of "boycotting" GM, why dont we actually fight to get these guys FIRED from GM...and put on trial?

 

Not only GM employees ...Delco employess too...because I remember even some engineers at Delco KNEW that the part would fail...told their bosses, but their bosses did nothing also...because contract is too big to deny...everybody it seems was thinking in terms of money...

 

EVERYBODY HAS A MORAL OBLIGATION.  The excuse of...I was just doing my job...should not fly in a circumstance like this one.

 

We..have turned into a society of zombies only looking at money and material objects...

 

I think that's probably the recall. I'm not sure of the top of my head though.

We shouldn't have to do anything to get them fired. GM should have taken it upon themselves to fire them. What reason is there to keep any individual that had ties to either covering it up or participating in any way? Or why buy from a company who is going to make me work to get some POSes fired? They should have the moral integrity to do it themselves and if they morally don't think they should be fired, then I morally will not buy what they believe in. Like I said, there are too many other automotive companies out there to not look at.

Agreed with Delco employees as well. The ones who were involved or KNEW..should be canned. They had an opportunity at some point to do SOMETHING. Now, if these individuals did try to do something about it..it is another story, like the Delco employees who did try to do something about it and told their superiors shouldn't be fired. The ones who didn't do anything because of the contract, should be fired. They knowingly put a defective part in a car(millions, I believe).

With many media outlets anymore if it bleeds it leads.

Also with many in the media they are no longer unbiased and generally socialist and anti capitalism.

Too often media is agenda driven.

With many media outlets anymore if it bleeds it leads.

Also with many in the media they are no longer unbiased and generally socialist and anti capitalism.

Too often media is agenda driven.

+1 Totally agree! Media is Agenda driven regardless if conservative or liberal. The days of Integrity and honor in reporting the news to allow the public to know the facts are gone.