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William Maley

GM News: GM's Upcoming Electric Onslaught

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On Wednesday, General Motors invited a number of media to their tech center in Warren, MI for their EV Day event. The company is making a big bet on electric vehicles with 11 new vehicles rolling out by 2025, featuring a new electric modular platform and battery tech. Here's what we know.

Third-Generation Electric Vehicle Platform

Underpinning this massive push is GM's new third-generation EV platform (BEV3). The new platform was designed to provide flexibility for different vehicle types - ranging from compact cars to pickup trucks. Battery packs are designed to be mounted beneath the passenger compartment to allow for a lower center of gravity. This results in more passenger room and improved handling. The platform also allows for different drive configurations - front, rear, or all-wheel drive - depending on the vehicle.

Ultium Battery Technology

Providing the electric power for these new models is what GM calls Ultium batteries. Working together with its battery partner LG Chem, the Ultium batteries are large-format, pouch-style cells that can either be stacked vertically or horizontally in packs. This will allow more flexibility for engineers to design battery packs for vehicles.

More important is the chemistry of the batteries. GM has reduced the amount Cobalt - an element used in the making of batteries that is becoming harder to find and expensive - by seventy percent. Instead, the batteries are using aluminum. This will hopefully bring down the price of the battery packs.

Battery capacity will range from 50 to 200 kilowatt hours - giving a projected max range of 400 miles depending on the vehicle. Level II and DC fast-charging are both supported.

The Vehicles

At the event, GM had 10 vehicles on display and one shown via digital renderings. The current plan is to start launching the new models beginning later this year.

  • Updated Chevrolet Bolt: The first vehicle to be launched in this offensive. It will get an updated interior with a more premium dash.
  • Chevrolet Bolt EUV: The crossover-variant of the Bolt, it is about five-inches longer and rides on a wheelbase that has been stretched by three inches. An updated roofline reportedly eliminates the small front windows on the Bolt. The EUV will also be the first model outside of Cadillac to get Super Cruise.
  • Chevrolet Midsize Crossover: About the same size as the Blazer, this model has an aggressive design and features a low roofline. A pair of 18-inch multimedia displays dominate the interior.
  • Chevrolet Full-Size Truck: This was the model only shown in digital renderings according to those who were at the event. It will complement the Silverado and be aimed at those who want something to be used on a job site - not like the upcoming GMC Hummer Truck or Rivian which are aimed more at lifestyle folks. This model is expected to arrive in 2025.
  • Buick Crossover and SUV: These two models didn't have a name and were wearing a design that was described by the Detroit Free Press as a "vaguely European look". 
  • GMC Hummer Truck: This will only be available in a crew-cab configuration with a five-foot bed. The design will be utilitarian and boxy. Inside, two large screens will serve as the instrument cluster and infotainment system. Don't expect any leather as many of materials used inside will be made from recycled materials. The truck will also have removable roof panels (like the Jeep Wrangler, that can be stored in the front trunk.
  • GMC Hummer SUV: Basically the same as the truck, albeit using a shorter wheelbase.
  • Cadillac Lyriq: We have seen teasers of this model last year and Cadillac dropped another this week showing off the silhouette - reminding us some crossovers from Jaguar and Porsche. The vehicle is wide and rides on 23-inch wheels. Size-wise, it is similar to the XT5. The interior boasts a 34-inch-wide high-def screen and seating for four, though the production model may have seating for five.
  • Cadillac Celestiq: A new four-door flagship sedan that has a long front end and a fastback rear according to those who saw the clay model. It will be hand-built and carry a six-figure pricetag.
  • Cadillac Large SUV: About the size of an Escalade, it be complementary vehicle to it. The model will have a more traditional design than the other Cadillac EVs. Inside, it will boast large screens up front and three-rows of seating.

Source: Roadshow, Detroit Free Press, The Drive, General Motors
Press Release is on Page 2


GM Reveals New Ultium Batteries and a Flexible Global Platform to Rapidly Grow its EV Portfolio

WARREN, Mich. – Starting today, General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) is gathering hundreds of employees, dealers, investors, analysts, media and policymakers to share details of its strategy to grow the company’s electric vehicle (EV) sales quickly, efficiently and profitably.

“Our team accepted the challenge to transform product development at GM and position our company for an all-electric future,” said Mary Barra, GM chairman and CEO. “What we have done is build a multi-brand, multi-segment EV strategy with economies of scale that rival our full-size truck business with much less complexity and even more flexibility.”

The heart of GM’s strategy is a modular propulsion system and a highly flexible, third-generation global EV platform powered by proprietary Ultium batteries. They will allow the company to compete for nearly every customer in the market today, whether they are looking for affordable transportation, a luxury experience, work trucks or a high-performance machine.

“Thousands of GM scientists, engineers and designers are working to execute an historic reinvention of the company,” said GM President Mark Reuss. “They are on the cusp of delivering a profitable EV business that can satisfy millions of customers.”

Ultium Batteries and Propulsion System Highlights

  • GM’s new Ultium batteries are unique in the industry because the large-format, pouch-style cells can be stacked vertically or horizontally inside the battery pack. This allows engineers to optimize battery energy storage and layout for each vehicle design.
  • Ultium energy options range from 50 to 200 kWh, which could enable a GM-estimated range up to 400 miles or more on a full charge with 0 to 60 mph acceleration as low as 3 seconds. Motors designed in-house will support front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive and performance all-wheel drive applications.
  • Ultium-powered EVs are designed for Level 2 and DC fast charging. Most will have 400-volt battery packs and up to 200 kW fast-charging capability while our truck platform will have 800-volt battery packs and 350 kW fast-charging capability.

GM’s flexible, modular approach to EV development will drive significant economies of scale and create new revenue opportunities, including: 

  • Continuous Improvement in Battery Costs: GM’s joint venture with LG Chem will drive battery cell costs below $100/kWh. The cells use a proprietary low cobalt chemistry and ongoing technological and manufacturing breakthroughs will drive costs even lower.
  • Flexibility: GM’s all-new global platform is flexible enough to build a wide range of trucks, SUVs, crossovers, cars and commercial vehicles with outstanding design, performance, packaging, range and affordability.
  • Capital Efficiency: GM can spend less capital to scale its EV business because it is able to leverage existing property, including land, buildings, tools and production equipment such as body shops and paint shops.
  • Complexity Reduction: The vehicle and propulsion systems were designed together to minimize complexity and part counts beyond today’s EVs, which are less complex than conventional vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. For example, GM plans 19 different battery and drive unit configurations initially, compared with 550 internal combustion powertrain combinations available today.
  • Rising Customer Acceptance: Third-party forecasters expect U.S. EV volumes to more than double from 2025 to 2030 to about 3 million units on average. GM believes volumes could be materially higher as more EVs are launched in popular segments, charging networks grow and the total cost of ownership to consumers continues to fall.
  • New Sources of Revenue: By vertically integrating the manufacture of battery cells, the company can reach beyond its own fleet and license technology to others.

The first generation of GM’s future EV program will be profitable. The initial programs will pave the way for further accretive growth. GM’s technology can be scaled to meet customer demand much higher than the more than 1 million global sales the company expects mid-decade.

Upcoming Launches and Reveals

Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick will all be launching new EVs starting this year. The next new Chevrolet EV will be a new version of the Bolt EV, launching in late 2020, followed by the 2022 Bolt EUV, launching Summer 2021. The Bolt EUV will be the first vehicle outside of the Cadillac brand to feature Super Cruise, the industry's first true hands-free driving technology for the highway, which GM will expand to 22 vehicles by 2023, including 10 by next year.

The Cruise Origin, a self-driving, electric shared vehicle, shown to the public in January 2020 in San Francisco, was the first product revealed using GM’s third generation EV platform and Ultium batteries. Next will be the Cadillac Lyriq luxury SUV in April. Details about its launch will be shared then. The reveal of the Ultium-powered GMC HUMMER EV will follow on May 20. Production is expected to begin in Fall 2021 at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, GM’s first assembly plant 100 percent dedicated to EV production.


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Very exciting to see what the end result becomes once on the dealership lot.

I think a new auto will be in my future between 2021 to 2024 depending on release time.

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Thinking on this, GM could bring back a 21st century 442!

  • 4 = 400 kW of power
  • 4 = 4 Motors, AWD with Torque Vectoring
  • 2 = 2 door sports EV that kicks Tesla Ludicrous Mode!

I can envision many awesome driving machines with EV power trains on our Glorious Auto History.

@oldshurst442 What cha think?

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Posted (edited)

It's just not necessary, and I fail to see what marketing gain there would be.
It's especially egregious given the '4' in '442' specifically meant a specific  internal combustion V8.

442 has seen more than 1 revival; all paling against the original.
Perhaps 'enough is enough' there.

Edited by balthazar
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Im with Balthy on this. No need to do 442 nomenclature. For several reasons too, not JUST what Balthy said. What he said is but 3 reasons.

1. First and foremost. Oldsmobile is no longer a brand. A 442 is NOT a Chevy, nor a Buick. I would NEVER want a Cutlass/442 branded any other way other than Oldsmobile...so...

2.  Just not necessary. No marketing gain, especially when many folks dont remember what a 442 is,  at best. And at worst...dont know ANYTHING about it. 

3. I dont mind your definition of an electric 442. Im not going to be that fussy about it not being a 4 barrel carburetor, 4 speed manual trans and dual exhaust on a big cubed V8 because Oldsmobile themselves did one on the Quad 4 of it being 4 cylinder, 4 valves/cylinder, dual camshafts.

 About that...although it was a quick car in comparison to what was offered in the late 1980s early 1990s, and compared to what a muscle car 442 was in the 1960s and early 1970s, and that Quad 4 Calais 442 was probably a better 442 than the G-Body 442 was...

Both G-Body and Quad 4 442s lacked the menacing presence of the originals.

Like Balthy said. Enough is enough. Let the 442 rest in peace. 

Now...I would take a Cutlass body shell and I would marry it to a Tesla...or better yet...GM EV skateboard platform complete with batteries and motors and create my own 442.  THAT is what I would do if I was trying to restore a far too gone Cutlass barnyard find. with no engine and the like.  But for GM...let Cadillac and Chevy create new legends. 

 

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@oldshurst442 @balthazar

I understand what you both are saying. 

Yet, now that we have Hummer by GMC, I honestly could see GM do a Legends by GMC where they do special edition autos from Oldmobile, Pontiac, and even throw in a new 21st century EV Grand National by Buick.

From a marketing standpoint there is much they could do with and make money off some of the amazing bad ass rides from the past.

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7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yet, now that we have Hummer by GMC, I honestly could see GM do a Legends by GMC where they do special edition autos from Oldmobile, Pontiac, and even... Buick.

But..... no one gives 2 shits about Hummer's 'legacy', and Hummer was here only 10 minutes years ago.

Olds, Buick & Pontiac (especially) have legions of fans, mostly centered on the Divisions heydays. Strip-mining the history books for nameplates is irrelevant laziness, and inevitably would call up near constant comparisons; taking focus off the modern product. Let the heritage Divisions RIP ((UNLESS an official Olds or Pontiac nameplate is brought back. Then at least, we could talk).

Go strip-mine GMC's catalog.

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Posted (edited)

Let the faceless, soulless future stand or fall on its own.  Bringing back a meaningful name from the past and slapping it on a meaningless commodity BE3 anything would be pointless.  It's like a bad actor trying to elicit emotion in a totally disconnected (unplugged) audience.  Fake.

Edited by ocnblu
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Posted (edited)

Since the names from the past would mostly just appeal to an older audience that won’t be interested in EVs, they should avoid any retro or heritage image with the EVs.  They really have to focus on the future.    I can't really see GM's legacy customer base going for new EVs, these are going to have to appeal to new buyers that are seeking EVs..

Edited by Robert Hall
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The Chevy/Buick SUVs are important since that is the meat of the market.  They will have to beat out the Tesla Model Y and Mustang Mach E.  The pickup is also important since Cybertruck pre-sales look like there will be strong demand and that will really eat into Ford/GM/Ram sales, and for those brands that is the #1 profit maker.

 

Steve Carlisle said the Celestique will be over $200,000.  He must be outside his mind if he thinks people are going to pay more than Porsche Taycan prices for a Cadillac.  

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Taycan isn't all that. Plus, the range isn't worthy of it's price tag.

Only way tesla pickup 'eats into' Ram / GM / Ford sales is if it steals their customers. I don't remotely see that happening. The tesla truck "will have to beat out" Ram / GM / Ford, since they are the "meat of the market".

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2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Taycan isn't all that. Plus, the range isn't worthy of it's price tag.

Only way tesla pickup 'eats into' Ram / GM / Ford sales is if it steals their customers. I don't remotely see that happening. The tesla truck "will have to beat out" Ram / GM / Ford, since they are the "meat of the market".

Cybertruck has over 500,000 orders, where are those coming from?  There are only X number of full size truck buyers in the market.  People that never bought a truck or never thought of buying a pickup are not all of a sudden going to buy a Cybertruck.  I suspect F150, Ram 1500 and Silverado all see a 10-15% drop in sales the year Cybertruck goes on sale.  

Taycan is faster than a C8 Corvette and it says Porsche on it.  The Cadillac won't be faster than a Corvette, because the Corvette has to be the fastest car at GM, so the Celestique won't be faster than a Model S either, since the C8 is slower than a Model S.  And interiors have never been a Cadillac strong suit, they haven't had a best in class interior since like 1960 so I can't imagine all of a sudden they come up with a Bentley level interior for this car.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Cybertruck has over 500,000 orders, where are those coming from?  There are only X number of full size truck buyers in the market.  People that never bought a truck or never thought of buying a pickup are not all of a sudden going to buy a Cybertruck.  I suspect F150, Ram 1500 and Silverado all see a 10-15% drop in sales the year Cybertruck goes on sale.  

Taycan is faster than a C8 Corvette and it says Porsche on it.  The Cadillac won't be faster than a Corvette, because the Corvette has to be the fastest car at GM, so the Celestique won't be faster than a Model S either, since the C8 is slower than a Model S.  And interiors have never been a Cadillac strong suit, they haven't had a best in class interior since like 1960 so I can't imagine all of a sudden they come up with a Bentley level interior for this car.

Yeah I remember the Tesla 3 having similar preorder numbers yet has not sold near that. It also did not eat into its alleged competition. The Cyber Truck will not sway any serious RAM/Ford/GM owner just because it ugly as hell. Simply the ugliest damn thing on wheels I have ever seen released to the masses and that’s saying something. 
 

Your second paragraph doesn’t even merit a response because you choose to focus only on the domestics like Daimler won’t take the same kind of hit. 

Edited by surreal1272
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Posted (edited)

 

 

  • Updated Chevrolet Bolt: The first vehicle to be launched in this offensive. It will get an updated interior with a more premium dash.

too small to be useful to many, will never sell in huge volume at that size.  good thing the cheap dash will get an update.

  • Chevrolet Bolt EUV: The crossover-variant of the Bolt, it is about five-inches longer and rides on a wheelbase that has been stretched by three inches. An updated roofline reportedly eliminates the small front windows on the Bolt. The EUV will also be the first model outside of Cadillac to get Super Cruise.

how is this a substantial size increase over the Bolt?  what is the point?

  • Chevrolet Midsize Crossover: About the same size as the Blazer, this model has an aggressive design and features a low roofline. A pair of 18-inch multimedia displays dominate the interior.

May actually have a chance as a volume model.  As long as it is as big as the Blazer or Edge and not the size the of the Equinox but labelled 'midsize'.

  • Chevrolet Full-Size Truck: This was the model only shown in digital renderings according to those who were at the event. It will complement the Silverado and be aimed at those who want something to be used on a job site - not like the upcoming GMC Hummer Truck or Rivian which are aimed more at lifestyle folks. This model is expected to arrive in 2025.

Not sure how this will be received.  Seems more like a model for PR purposes rather than for actual sale.

  • Buick Crossover and SUV: These two models didn't have a name and were wearing a design that was described by the Detroit Free Press as a "vaguely European look". 

May be useful to Buick, same points as the midsize crossover apply otherwise.

  • GMC Hummer Truck: This will only be available in a crew-cab configuration with a five-foot bed. The design will be utilitarian and boxy. Inside, two large screens will serve as the instrument cluster and infotainment system. Don't expect any leather as many of materials used inside will be made from recycled materials. The truck will also have removable roof panels (like the Jeep Wrangler, that can be stored in the front trunk.

Simply a PR vehicle.

  • GMC Hummer SUV: Basically the same as the truck, albeit using a shorter wheelbase.

PR vehicle, won't add to market share.

  • Cadillac Lyriq: We have seen teasers of this model last year and Cadillac dropped another this week showing off the silhouette - reminding us some crossovers from Jaguar and Porsche. The vehicle is wide and rides on 23-inch wheels. Size-wise, it is similar to the XT5. The interior boasts a 34-inch-wide high-def screen and seating for four, though the production model may have seating for five.

Cadillac's excuse for not providing a knockout XT6 or a new XT5 is what this will be.  Then they can say they ran out of cash to make replacements for the XT5 and XT6.

  • Cadillac Celestiq: A new four-door flagship sedan that has a long front end and a fastback rear according to those who saw the clay model. It will be hand-built and carry a six-figure pricetag.

Cadillac's excuse for not providing a new flagship or keeping the CT6 is what this will be.  Then they can claim to justify a low volume electric sedan rather than work to market the most competitive sedan market with the gas cars.

  • Cadillac Large SUV: About the size of an Escalade, it be complementary vehicle to it. The model will have a more traditional design than the other Cadillac EVs. Inside, it will boast large screens up front and three-rows of seating.

As long as you still have the Escalade which it seems they are at least smart enough to never get rid of.

 

So,

most of this list is PR cars.  The chevy and buick midsize crossovers are the only ones that have a chance to become useful daily driver replacements in volume.  GM still has to provide resources to refresh and develop new and existing gas models.  They cannot stop keeping up with improvements by falling back on some BS about bringing electric vehicles to market, because this list is mostly niche.  

And even so, what has GM done to help with the charge network?  Will these vehicles charge in 10 minutes and have a range of 300+ miles including in a cold winter?  SOmebody has to build a charge network, when will this happen GM?

It's like building these models is an excuse to abandon development and improvements on the vehicles that still will make up the real daily drivers for most.

Where is the Tesla Model 3 or Model S challenger?  I am starting to see a lot of model 3's, it seems a chevy sedan with range and space, and performance in the neighborhood of a Tesla but with a better price could be a car that starts to turn the market to electrics.  

I imagine these models are going to be pricey so that is the strategy, not try to move electric to the mainstream....sell high priced models to help pay for incremental development of electric drives and chassis, just to claim you are woke and on the leading edge.

We won't see any movement to provide that charge network in convenient ways like now until the masses get into electric.  And generally, if you build the road first, then the growth happens.  The charge network / convenient charging is the road, that is what actually needs to be known first, when is this charge network built and where.  There is no plan / no road to speak of.  If the road is not there, then don't expect any demand.

 

 

 

 

Edited by regfootball
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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Yeah I remember the Tesla 3 having similar preorder numbers yet has not sold near that. It also did not eat into its alleged competition. The Cyber Truck will not sway any serious RAM/Ford/GM owner just because it ugly as hell. Simply the ugliest damn thing on wheels I have ever seen released to the masses and that’s saying something. 
 

Your second paragraph doesn’t even merit a response because you choose to focus only on the domestics like Daimler won’t take the same kind of hit. 

Daimler, BMW and VW have taken a hit from Tesla.  As have Cadillac, Lexus and Infiniti.  Look at how all those brands are seeing their sedan sales die off yet Tesla is cranking out Model 3's and S's are a pretty good clip.

Cadillac Celestique won't sell, it will be a bigger failure than the ELR was.  No one will take a hit from that other than Cadillac.

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1 hour ago, regfootball said:

 

Where is the Tesla Model 3 or Model S challenger?  

 

The Model S challenger is the Celestique but it is double the price and slower.  A winning strategy.

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Model S sales in the US peaked some years ago, and have dropped since. Tesla is acutely aware of this, proven by the company otherwise-inexplicably combining model s & X sales number together. Hides the slump. Model S is old-old-old at this point, and the Model X's curfuffle with making the REAR doors 'wing' up was a flop.

Daimler is 10 years behind Tesla and still has nothing to offer. Despite them claiming they are hard and work turning over a new leaf, the company is in high investment retreat- the EQS was delayed before it was even unveiled. Firing engineers & designers not a way to combat Tesla.

General Motors on the other hand has shown just how serious they are. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, the Corporation is dedicated.

So, most of this list is PR cars.


Reg is a the-glass-is-half-full, maybe-less, and-I-can-see-it-evaporating-from-here type, ain't he?

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@dwightlooi I would like your thoughts on this HET Electric motor.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/08/hunstable-electric-turbine/

I think this has great potential and it will be interesting to see who brings this to market first. American, European, Asian or Chinese. Yes I took Chinese out of the Asian group as they are bigger and very different than the others.

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

 

 

  • Updated Chevrolet Bolt: The first vehicle to be launched in this offensive. It will get an updated interior with a more premium dash.

too small to be useful to many, will never sell in huge volume at that size.  good thing the cheap dash will get an update.

  • Chevrolet Bolt EUV: The crossover-variant of the Bolt, it is about five-inches longer and rides on a wheelbase that has been stretched by three inches. An updated roofline reportedly eliminates the small front windows on the Bolt. The EUV will also be the first model outside of Cadillac to get Super Cruise.

how is this a substantial size increase over the Bolt?  what is the point?

  • Chevrolet Midsize Crossover: About the same size as the Blazer, this model has an aggressive design and features a low roofline. A pair of 18-inch multimedia displays dominate the interior.

May actually have a chance as a volume model.  As long as it is as big as the Blazer or Edge and not the size the of the Equinox but labelled 'midsize'.

  • Chevrolet Full-Size Truck: This was the model only shown in digital renderings according to those who were at the event. It will complement the Silverado and be aimed at those who want something to be used on a job site - not like the upcoming GMC Hummer Truck or Rivian which are aimed more at lifestyle folks. This model is expected to arrive in 2025.

Not sure how this will be received.  Seems more like a model for PR purposes rather than for actual sale.

  • Buick Crossover and SUV: These two models didn't have a name and were wearing a design that was described by the Detroit Free Press as a "vaguely European look". 

May be useful to Buick, same points as the midsize crossover apply otherwise.

  • GMC Hummer Truck: This will only be available in a crew-cab configuration with a five-foot bed. The design will be utilitarian and boxy. Inside, two large screens will serve as the instrument cluster and infotainment system. Don't expect any leather as many of materials used inside will be made from recycled materials. The truck will also have removable roof panels (like the Jeep Wrangler, that can be stored in the front trunk.

Simply a PR vehicle.

  • GMC Hummer SUV: Basically the same as the truck, albeit using a shorter wheelbase.

PR vehicle, won't add to market share.

  • Cadillac Lyriq: We have seen teasers of this model last year and Cadillac dropped another this week showing off the silhouette - reminding us some crossovers from Jaguar and Porsche. The vehicle is wide and rides on 23-inch wheels. Size-wise, it is similar to the XT5. The interior boasts a 34-inch-wide high-def screen and seating for four, though the production model may have seating for five.

Cadillac's excuse for not providing a knockout XT6 or a new XT5 is what this will be.  Then they can say they ran out of cash to make replacements for the XT5 and XT6.

  • Cadillac Celestiq: A new four-door flagship sedan that has a long front end and a fastback rear according to those who saw the clay model. It will be hand-built and carry a six-figure pricetag.

Cadillac's excuse for not providing a new flagship or keeping the CT6 is what this will be.  Then they can claim to justify a low volume electric sedan rather than work to market the most competitive sedan market with the gas cars.

  • Cadillac Large SUV: About the size of an Escalade, it be complementary vehicle to it. The model will have a more traditional design than the other Cadillac EVs. Inside, it will boast large screens up front and three-rows of seating.

As long as you still have the Escalade which it seems they are at least smart enough to never get rid of.

So,

most of this list is PR cars.  The chevy and buick midsize crossovers are the only ones that have a chance to become useful daily driver replacements in volume.  GM still has to provide resources to refresh and develop new and existing gas models.  They cannot stop keeping up with improvements by falling back on some BS about bringing electric vehicles to market, because this list is mostly niche.  

And even so, what has GM done to help with the charge network?  Will these vehicles charge in 10 minutes and have a range of 300+ miles including in a cold winter?  SOmebody has to build a charge network, when will this happen GM?

It's like building these models is an excuse to abandon development and improvements on the vehicles that still will make up the real daily drivers for most.

Where is the Tesla Model 3 or Model S challenger?  I am starting to see a lot of model 3's, it seems a chevy sedan with range and space, and performance in the neighborhood of a Tesla but with a better price could be a car that starts to turn the market to electrics.  

I imagine these models are going to be pricey so that is the strategy, not try to move electric to the mainstream....sell high priced models to help pay for incremental development of electric drives and chassis, just to claim you are woke and on the leading edge.

We won't see any movement to provide that charge network in convenient ways like now until the masses get into electric.  And generally, if you build the road first, then the growth happens.  The charge network / convenient charging is the road, that is what actually needs to be known first, when is this charge network built and where.  There is no plan / no road to speak of.  If the road is not there, then don't expect any demand.

So your Glass is half empty and leaking by the second. Got it, you see GM as dying and going away one day. Right...........

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8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Model S challenger is the Celestique but it is double the price and slower.

Fastest modified Model S ludicrious mode + Upgrade quarter mile (after waiting an hour to warm the batteries and making sure it was charged to 99%) is 10.4 secs- it barely beat out the C7. When the top engine C8 Corvette debuts, it'll demolish that time. Or would you like to compare the current base C8 to the long range 100 kw trim without ludicrious mode, without Upgrade and without warming the batteries for an hour??

But I welcome your link to the Cadillac's Celestiq performance claims - I hadn't seen that that was released.

BTW- at the price tier, the 'premium-class' Model S is many tiers below the future Cadillac flagship (finally we have a new Cadillac flagship!). Model S doesn't compare. Hell, it doesn't compare to a S-Class.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Daimler, BMW and VW have taken a hit from Tesla.  As have Cadillac, Lexus and Infiniti.  Look at how all those brands are seeing their sedan sales die off yet Tesla is cranking out Model 3's and S's are a pretty good clip.

Cadillac Celestique won't sell, it will be a bigger failure than the ELR was.  No one will take a hit from that other than Cadillac.

Well it sure as $h! won’t be because of this interior you have yet to see yet are quick to damn. You also spoke of quality like somehow the Tesla is a bastion of reliability and quality when it has been the complete opposite since day one. It’s interior is cheap garbage too. Don’t get me wrong. I like that Tesla has forced the big boys to up their game but they have a ways to go before they reach the quality of even Cadillac despite all of your naysaying.
 

Hell, I’m still look for a Daimler EV that measures up but they yet to produce that future dud because of delay after delay. 

53 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Model S challenger is the Celestique but it is double the price and slower.  A winning strategy.

Yet you have zero information on the Cadillacs specs and performance. Might I ask where you got your crystal ball or is talking out of your posterior just easier to do than presenting actual facts?
 

Good grief. Try to make the trolling not look so obvious next time. 

Edited by surreal1272
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14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cybertruck has over 500,000 orders, where are those coming from?  There are only X number of full size truck buyers in the market.  People that never bought a truck or never thought of buying a pickup are not all of a sudden going to buy a Cybertruck.  I suspect F150, Ram 1500 and Silverado all see a 10-15% drop in sales the year Cybertruck goes on sale.

I bet the D3 would remain almost flat +/- 2%. It only took a $100 refundable deposit to "order" a Cybertruck. 

And no, there isn't a solid number of truck buyers in the market, especially when you add in a slowly growing EV market. The number clearly jumps around every year with variables changing every year. What happens when the F150 and Silverado EVs come out first? 

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Model S challenger is the Celestique but it is double the price and slower.  A winning strategy.

Isn't it like 3 years out at this point? I don't think judging it's alleged speed/acceleration is too accurate. 

For all we know, it'll actually run 0-60 in 2.5 seconds with a 600 mile range. We just don't know. It's too far out there. 

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12 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

So your Glass is half empty and leaking by the second. Got it, you see GM as dying and going away one day. Right...........

A friend once told me that my perspective sometimes was 'there is no glass'... 

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I bet the D3 would remain almost flat +/- 2%. It only took a $100 refundable deposit to "order" a Cybertruck. 

And no, there isn't a solid number of truck buyers in the market, especially when you add in a slowly growing EV market. The number clearly jumps around every year with variables changing every year. What happens when the F150 and Silverado EVs come out first? 

Isn't it like 3 years out at this point? I don't think judging it's alleged speed/acceleration is too accurate. 

For all we know, it'll actually run 0-60 in 2.5 seconds with a 600 mile range. We just don't know. It's too far out there. 

That last part is exactly my point when talking how asinine his assumptions are just because it’s GM we are talking about here. 

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In 2019, GM sold about 450,000 Equinox + Terrain compact crossovers.

If you are really serious about moving people into electrics (electrics, not hybrids), should you not assume you want to start eating away at chunks of your gas vehicle lineup and replace it with electric?

I see no plan here as being things other than PR because if they were serious i would read something to the effect of 'The all new all electric only 2022 Chevy Equinox will arrive and is intended to replace half the volume of gas equinox'.  A volume segment, which would make real sense to make a big push to move the market to electric.  Imagine a 2022 Electric Equinox + Terrain to replace the current models.  That would actually sell.  Or why not a new mid size sedan all electric to compete with the Model 3?  Or a 3 row crossover Acadia sized +/-, another high volume segment.

Neat thing to see the other day, at the auto show, the newest Accord hybrid.  48 mpg epa.  Look in the trunk, no 'battery hump' to speak of.  Doesn't it still make sense to invest in some hybrids, just make them the right size with real choices of options.  Volt was a bit of a failure because it was too small and you couldn't get power seats or sunroofs.

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